The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 18, 2005, 09:59 AM   #151
WillBrayjr
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1,881
Come get some. Thats if they don't land on the boards of nails I got sitting below the windows. I really can care less if thats against the law, after all if someone breaks into my home they're asking for it. Further more anyone who breaks into my home won't be leaving unless they're in a body bag.
WillBrayjr is offline  
Old November 18, 2005, 12:06 PM   #152
teejhot.40cal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 394
It doesn't matter what you YELL. It is how loud you YELL. All you have to do when being attacked is make a commotion. Then someone will at least be a witness. After there are witness the BG is very less apt to continue attacking.
teejhot.40cal is offline  
Old November 18, 2005, 03:39 PM   #153
dave_in_delaware
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2005
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duxman
IF you were in a situation where you had to draw your weapon and point at a BG (Because said BG was about to assualt, rob, rape etc. your wife, SO, friend etc.) AND you felt compelled to warn before you fire (perhaps because the mall is full of folks milling about or some other reason)

What do you YELL?
I doubt a BG would try anything in a place like the mall. Too many people around. Now, if it's in the parking garage or something like that, I wouldn't yell anything. I'd just draw and shoot him if I had to.

But, to play along, IF the BG was that close to my SO (and I'm assuming I'm right next to her), I would just draw my weapon on him. He's close enough to see me do it. So, I'd let my XD do the talking. I wouldn't say/yell anything.

Now, if he doesn't see my weapon, and he's about to do my SO harm, I'd just shoot him. The BG who is about to harm your SO don't deserve any warnings. Nor should you waste time talking to the BG giving him a chance to change his mind. If he's moving on your SO, he's already made his decision. And I've already made mine. BANG. BANG BANG. (However many I need). In a mall or not.

We carry our weapons for the protection of ourselves and our loved ones. We should be ready to shoot a BG who is about to do harm to us in some way. No warnings. No talking. If your weapon is drawn, then the threat was serious enough to warrant deadly force. No warnings or chances for the BGs!

My 2ยข
__________________
Dave -=|=- Please visit my Gun Stuff page (my tiny speck on the 'Net)

1. Springfield Armory XD-9 sub-compact (1110 rnds as of 06/18/05)
2. Springfield Armory XD-9 sub-compact (w/ blue & silver GK, gift for fiancee)
3. Ithaca Gun Company Model 37 12ga shotgun (from Grandfather)
4. Future: AR-15 build
dave_in_delaware is offline  
Old November 27, 2005, 06:08 PM   #154
RochPersDef
Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 24
Verbalization is the key to securing good 'ear-witnesses' in a defensive scenario. I encourage you to verbalize when you train. I usually end up yelling : "Drop the gun ! Please drop the gun!" This creates a wonderful double edged bonus. The BG will hear : "Police drop the gun" and the bystanders will hear "Please drop the gun" (My, what a nice gentleman, he was asking the badguy to drop the gun soo nicely)

Ear witnesses are key. What people see can and will be influenced by other factors. It is fairly hard to influence what is heard.

Besides, if you are acting in a reasonable manner during this, who cares what everyone thinks you are as long as they stop what they are doing and start wondering what is going on.
RochPersDef is offline  
Old November 27, 2005, 10:15 PM   #155
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,129
Quote:
IF you were in a situation where you had to draw your weapon and point at a BG (Because said BG was about to assualt, rob, rape etc. your wife, SO, friend etc.) AND you felt compelled to warn before you fire (perhaps because the mall is full of folks milling about or some other reason
So the theat is real and you perceive bad things are about to happen to you, your family, or friends...

RochPersDef said...
Quote:
Verbalization is the key to securing good 'ear-witnesses' in a defensive scenario. I encourage you to verbalize when you train. I usually end up yelling : "Drop the gun ! Please drop the gun!" This creates a wonderful double edged bonus. The BG will hear : "Police drop the gun" and the bystanders will hear "Please drop the gun" (My, what a nice gentleman, he was asking the badguy to drop the gun soo nicely)

Ear witnesses are key. What people see can and will be influenced by other factors. It is fairly hard to influence what is heard.

Besides, if you are acting in a reasonable manner during this, who cares what everyone thinks you are as long as they stop what they are doing and start wondering what is going on.
So you, your family, or friends are about to suffer at the hands of a bad guy and you are concerned about having good 'ear-witnesses'???????? Don't you think securing your safety (or that of family and loved ones) is more important than having good 'ear-witnesses'??

The self contradiction noted is amazing. Do you really believe that saying "Please drop the gun" will be heard as "Police! Drop the gun" by the bad guy and heard as "Please drop the gun" by the witnesses? You claim the what people see can be influenced by other factors but that it is hard to influence what is heard. If it is so hard to influence what is heard, then why the hell do you believe the bad guy will only hear "Police" instead of "Please" and the witnesses vice versa?

What is your basis to justify that it is hard to influence what people hear?

Having your priorities in the wrong order and putting faith into incorrect assumptions about human behavior, visual skills, and hearing skills are the types of things that will get you killed.

If you are with family or loved ones, don't you think it would be more prudent to issue verbal commands to guide those folks to safety, away from the danger, than to waste precious time chatting up the bad guy?
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old November 28, 2005, 04:31 PM   #156
RochPersDef
Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 24
The priorites will fall into place as they must. Of course I will make sure my loved ones are safe before taking any action as described above. I also did not say you should warn 'before' you shoot. His actions justified your reaction. No warning needed. I would be shouting as I drew, as I placed my front sight on my target, as I pulled the trigger, as I reloaded (if neccessary), as I created distance, as I made sure that the badguy was no longer a threat....get the picture? I don't care what any one hears, as long as what they hear makes them realize that I am the good guy, that's all.
__________________
Rochester Personal Defense
Rochester, NY
www.safeinrochester.com
RochPersDef is offline  
Old November 28, 2005, 07:44 PM   #157
Pistolenschutze
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 243
Well, assuming there are no witnesses too close . . . you first yell "HALT" at least three times. Then you must read him his Miranda rights. Then, of course, you must engage in meaningful discourse with him, taking well into account his unfair and tragically deprived upbringing. Next, you offer the poor deprived soul the opportunity to cease his aggression peacefully.

Oh, and one other thing . . . you do the above only AFTER you've blown him into the next world with at least four slugs to the heart-lung area from your trusty .45.
__________________
--Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt, tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt. (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults.)
Pistolenschutze is offline  
Old November 28, 2005, 08:19 PM   #158
delta58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2005
Location: Florida panhandle
Posts: 128
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight stupid!!
__________________
Doug Helms
<><
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Ben Franklin.
delta58 is offline  
Old November 28, 2005, 09:10 PM   #159
springmom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2005
Location: Houston area
Posts: 1,823
I've been thinking about this

This thread's been going on for awhile, and has given me much food for thought. Ultimately, I realized I *would* yell because I would need, for myself, to know that I had tried (even in a split second) to give the guy a chance to live. And what I would yell is:

Drop it or die.

Springmom
__________________
I will not be a victim

home on the web:
www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage)
www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy)

"I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun
springmom is offline  
Old November 28, 2005, 10:54 PM   #160
model 25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: out west
Posts: 892
Drop the weapon
drop the weapon
drop the weapon


Any move other than compliance will recieve a swift response.

25
model 25 is offline  
Old November 29, 2005, 11:34 AM   #161
azurefly
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2005
Posts: 1,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneinFL
If you tell the guy to do whatever or else you're going to shoot, I've heard that could be used against you in court to prove malice or premeditation. Maybe one of the lawyers who goes through these forums could chime in and support or refute this.

I suppose that would depend on what the BG was doing that you told him to stop doing.

If he was doing something that clearly gives you the legal and moral right to shoot him, I don't see how it would cause you trouble. In fact, you could defend your actions by saying, "Well, he was pointing a firearm at me, and I told him to STOP, DROP THE WEAPON OR I'LL SHOOT and he did not, so I shot him."

If a person is advancing on you with a raised crowbar, and you are pointing your gun at him, and you tell him to stop or you'll shoot, that's not premeditated killing. That's you actually holding BACK at first, NOT killing even though you justifiably could, and then doing so after the BG's failure to cease his attack.

Of course, I'm no lawyer -- but I sure as hell believe that the law on this ought to be based on this kind of common sense.


-azurefly
azurefly is offline  
Old November 29, 2005, 12:04 PM   #162
The British Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2005
Location: England...that green and pleasasnt land.
Posts: 295
We Brits, in a crisp but authorative way shout:
Army! Stop or I Fire.

Then we can engage, unless life is imminently threatened when we don't have to give a warning; we can shoot immediately and without a warning.

The rules of engagement vary on the theatre we are in, but one's absolute right to self defence is inviolable. We are given it under UK Law and it really pisses off people like the United Nations, who accuse Brits of shooting too often! In Bosnia we had a 'reputation' and the warring factions we always complaining to the UN that when they shot at the Brits, they fired back! Some of the other European nations on that mission, UNPROFOR in the early 90s, would just hunker down and let the opposition shot at them all day long until they got bored and wandered off to do some more ethnic cleansing!:barf:
__________________
Mike

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

Rudyard Kipling.
The British Soldier is offline  
Old November 29, 2005, 01:39 PM   #163
stratus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 5, 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 881
If I had the time or chose to yell anything, I'd say something like "don't throw your life away".
stratus is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08575 seconds with 8 queries