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Old April 10, 2010, 12:10 AM   #1
BamaBowtie
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Reminded today why I always carry a reload

My parents moved a couple weeks ago and I stopped by today to see the place. While there one of the neighbors came by to give them her number and to let them know she would be gone for the weekend and if her horses got out again to call her. Shortly after she arrived one of her dogs did too, my sister has a boxer/pit mix that is protective and she felt threatened by the other dog and they tied up. The neighbor ran over and tried to break them up but it was no use. I fired a few rounds into the ground and they quickly parted ways! Without even thinking about it I pulled the mag from my pocket and swapped it with the now half empty mag. This is not something I have practiced or really even thought about. I carry a spare mag or speed loader just in case the situation calls for more than what the gun holds. But after I swapped the mag I started thinking, if I didn't have that extra mag I would be running around with a half empty gun. I now realize that having a reload is not just for the fight. It also ensure that after the fight you can still be prepared if another threat presents itself later in the day. The rest of the day I carried my dedicated truck mag as a spare. This also made me realize that I need more carry ammo since what was in the gun and my reload were all I had left. The truck mag is loaded with FMJ and is carried in the truck to deal with the four leg critters.
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Old April 10, 2010, 01:03 AM   #2
Nnobby45
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It also ensure that after the fight you can still be prepared if another threat presents itself later in the day.
Been lots of threads where posters were so adamant about feeling perfectly compfy without a reload, because the odds were against ever needing one.

Interesting that most of these folks never considered that, while the reload may not be necessary during the fight (or it may be), a reloaded gun might, at least, create a standoff (or deter Bubba's friends) until the police arrive.

I, for one, wouldn't be any more compfy with an unloaded gun after I needed it than before in any case scenario--except the police racing toward me code 3.

Last edited by Nnobby45; April 10, 2010 at 01:09 AM.
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Old April 10, 2010, 08:47 AM   #3
45Gunner
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At first I thought this was going to be a thread about reloaded casings....

If you carry a gun for protection then it should always be carried condition one and it as always advisable to carry at least one extra magazine or speed loader.
When I was in Vietnam, my biggest fear was running out of ammo in the heat of a firefight. I guess I have taken that fear forward in time and always carry two extra magazines in addition to the fully loaded one already in my gun. I cannot think of a single situation when one would have two much ammo, except maybe if one were in a boat taking on water.

We had a saying in aviation: The only time I have too much fuel is when I am on fire. Perhaps we could devise a saying for that when it comes to ammo and defense?
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Old April 10, 2010, 10:05 AM   #4
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45 gunner said:

Quote:
When I was in Vietnam, my biggest fear was running out of ammo in the heat of a firefight.
My sentiments exactly. "Click" just does not do as much for the situation as does "Bang".

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Old April 10, 2010, 10:05 AM   #5
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Kahr PM40 with two spare magazines: 16 total rounds of .40S&W

Taurus PT101 with no spare magazines: 16 total rounds of .40S&W

One of these load-outs "breaks the rules" but the capability is essentially the same. I guess the real question is, not whether to carry a reload but what is the ideal amount of ammunition to have on hand for daily carry?
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Old April 10, 2010, 12:23 PM   #6
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Threads like this NEVER contain words or phrases like "a .22 is just fine because it is all about shot placement", or "5 or 6 shots is all you will need in a real world situation anyway". Carry a real world defensive catridge in whatever platform you prefer, and carry a reload. As the deputy said in Streets of Laredo, "It's just that I would hate to get killed for a lack of shootin' back".

Good job with the dog situation by the way. Nobody, and no dog was hurt. Potentially dangerous problem solved. You can sure get a hand or face mauled by sticking them into a dog fight. Having both parties grab their dogs by the back legs and walking backwards will usually do the trick. We can't fight without a platform to move from and neither can a dog.
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Old April 10, 2010, 12:30 PM   #7
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Also keep in mind that regardless of your ammo count, having a spare mag will allow you to clear nearly any malfunction you may encounter while defending yourself with a pistol
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Old April 10, 2010, 12:32 PM   #8
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"It's just that I would hate to get killed for a lack of shootin' back".

Ha ha that quote was also in the movie "unforgiven" one of my fav clint eastwood movies
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Old April 10, 2010, 12:53 PM   #9
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There is a saying about having all of your eggs in one basket.

16rds in one mag does not work as well for me as 8rds in two mags. If one goes down, you have the other and I drop the mag for a fresh one on any malfunction. I figgure I can work that problem out later.

I like your solution to the dog fight as well. All's well that ends well.
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Old April 10, 2010, 01:05 PM   #10
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Extra mag on the person, two or three extra mags in truck usually a box of ammo under the seat.
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Old April 10, 2010, 01:24 PM   #11
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Most of us here are just private citizens who do not want any additional attention called to ourselves. We also do not enjoy the discomfort of carrying around too many items. Therefore, I believe the majority would carry around spare mags, however, it calls too much attention to ourselves and it is simply a discomfort.

Having a half-loaded mag or no spare mags is better then nothing. As private citizens, we are not looking to fight a war or enforce the law, but simply to give us an edge during the self defense encounter. The assumption is that we are going to try to avoid the situation and retreat when possible. If forced to fire, then we are going to lay down just enough rounds to stop the threat (versus cover or suppressive fire). Even police officers are instructed not pull their weapons while off-duty in plain clothes unless they absolutely need to and after everything else has failed.

There have been quite a few documented instances where a small .32 pistol and just one mag gave the edge to the person carrying it. It will work and has good odds of stopping the threat.

Stop worrying about carrying so many rounds or the caliber. The pistol is supposed to be the last bastion of self defensive needs after all avoidance techniques have failed. If you are laying down fire and require more then just one mag, then there is something you are doing wrong. You are not retreating or trying to avoid the encounter. You have gotten to the point where you are not laying down rounds to stop, but to suppress. Therefore, you are going beyond what is legal. Dont worry about caliber or how many rounds you have. A .32 or .380 will work in stopping the threat...
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Old April 10, 2010, 01:48 PM   #12
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And how many rounds is 'just enough to stop the threat' anyway? How many will that be for you. My crystal ball dosen't work that well. For a revolver, a speed strip takes up almost no room in a pocket. For a compact auto, a spare mag is a pretty small inconvenience. If we are to be prepared for what will LIKELY happen, then there would be no need to carry at all. Likelyhood is, there will be no gunfight when we go out, so why bother? We do not prepare for what is common. Common situations do not require much preperation at all.

BestBod85--I do believe you are correct, and I quoted the wrong movie. Still a pretty good quote

Example, I listened 2 weekends or so ago to a first hand account of a crowbar wielding burglar inside a private home. Homeowners came home and saw the guy, called the local PD. PD arrived, the guy met one of the officers at the top of the stairs, smiled at the drawn revolver, and hit him with the crowbar. Officer empties all six into the torso. Female partner then does the same. All six up close and in the torso except for 2 that entered the upper arm. It quickly devolves into clubbing the idiot with pistol butts and getting him cuffed. He was still cursing and wiggling when strapped to the stretcher going into the ambulance. Died later. He most certainly did not stop after the first gun ran dry. If he had a firearm instaed of a iron bar, he would have been a deadly threat for quite a while after the first gun ran dry. A doped up home burglar. When the investigators arrived on scene, the blood rolled up from the carpet over the soles of their shoes. Unlikely? Sure. So is a deadly encounter at all.
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Old April 10, 2010, 02:02 PM   #13
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I must confess that I keep my pistol loaded with one magazine, and always carry my spare magazine, either in my car or in my home, depending on where I am. But it would be more effective to carry my magazine with me in my pocket, or in a mag holder, than to leave the spare in my home or car.

Once my funds free up a bit, I will not only add a revolver to my collection but also some more spare magazines for my M&P 40.

By the way, that was very smart thinking, with regards to getting the dogs off of each other.
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Old April 10, 2010, 05:05 PM   #14
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Now I guess it's a difference in up bringing... I'd have tried the garden hose on the dogs first (if there was a hose available). That's been a pretty good fight stopper in my experience.

Secondly, tell your sister that she must get her dog to obedience classes and she needs to learn how to control her dog. A dog that won't stay and will charge another animal against the owner's direction is potentially dangerous.

Spare Ammo
The OP makes a good point. If you are forced to fire in your own defense, it may be a circumstance where no one is hit and no real damage is done (i.e. along the beach, in the woods, etc.) such as the situation here. But now you have a gun with potentially only a few shots left in it, unless you have spare ammo.

My habit is to always take at least one reload - magazine, speedloader/strip - along with me "just in case". You never know when you may need that ammo to get yourself out of an unfortunate situation or for some other reason.

JohnH1963 - I agree with your principle that, as citizens, we aren't planning to engage in prolonged gunbattles or to remain engaged when we can find safety. With that said...

Carrying one spare "load" is prudent. Any number of unusual or unforeseen events can ruin your day.

A student in a CCW class was "re-testing" for a new permit. He told how one morning he picked up his J-frame & holster off the nightstand where he'd put it the night before. Put it on and left the house on his daily calls. Somewhere during the day he found the gun was empty. His bad. Unloaded the night before and never reloaded it as intended. No spare ammo until he found a shop and bought a spare box.

One of local off-duty LEOs was mugged one night just outside a restaurant. A wrestling match for his weapon ensued and the magazine was ejected into the bushes. The attacker knifed the LEO in the thigh to escape. No spare ammo and one round. It took two cops 10 minutes to find his ejected mag in the bushes.
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Old April 10, 2010, 05:16 PM   #15
LafeHubert
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Extra magazines...

I have a Springfield Armory XD40-SC on my CCW and use the 9 round magazines. I stoke the chamber, then insert the magazine, and carry two magazine in a pouch in my hip pocket. That combination of magazines gives me 28 when the balloon goes up. I carry another two magazines in my van as well as a fresh 50 round box of ammo and a Ruger 10-22 with ammunition in a serious lock box. I live in earthquake prone California, and if I am, say, near Oakland, when the Hayward fault line cuts loose (please God don't let that ever happen), I think I might need it all to get out of the disaster zone, and to keep the important emergency items I have with me (water, first aid, food, sleeping bag, KABAR, tools etc.) so that I might somehow get home. I'm never going out with just my pistol and no more ammunition. Things in our modern world can go bad too quickly to assume one will be able to find more ammunition after a SD event takes place, especially in a disaster.

Good Luck
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Old April 10, 2010, 06:26 PM   #16
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I like to carry two spare mags. aside from needing the extra rounds a bad magazine can render a gun useless in a fight. I carry two mags for the spare MAGS just as much as the ammo.

I also carry a bug that accepts the mags from my main gun. I believe it was Massad Ayoob who said "the best way to carry spare ammo is with another gun wrapped around it."
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Old April 10, 2010, 09:51 PM   #17
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If I recall correctly, Jeff Cooper said something like, "It's true you can usually get the job done with the ammo in your gun, but who wants to carry around a half-empty gun?"
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Old April 11, 2010, 01:45 AM   #18
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To clarify about my sisters dog, she is well behaved. She didn't charge the other dog at all she put herself between my youngest sister and the other dog. It was actually the other ladies dog that snapped at my sisters dog. On a good note I found two boxes of Federal expanding fmj at the gun show today for $16 a box so now I have plenty of carry ammo again. Also sold my 10/22 at the show and am now saving for my next handgun purchase.
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Old April 11, 2010, 07:16 AM   #19
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Your half empty mag probably has more ammo than my fully loaded snubnose
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Old April 11, 2010, 08:53 AM   #20
45Gunner
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Carrying an extra mag/speedloader or two would not draw attention to ourselves as CCW holders. When I get dressed in the morning, my dual mag carrier goes on my left side and my .45 goes on my right. I dress for concealment and having the extra mags are no more revealing than not having them. My magazines are 8 rounders thus giving me 24 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber.

That should be more than adequate to extract myself from any negative situation that should come my way. I do not intend to hold off an opposing army, only to escape alive. If I cannot do that task with 25 rounds, then chances are I would not be able to do it with 250 rounds. However, the reason I go to the range as frequently as I do to practice tactics and marksmanship is to make a minimum amount of ammo work for me. My minimum amount of ammo is 25 rounds.
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Old April 11, 2010, 03:52 PM   #21
Terry A
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Quote:
Yesterday 11:05 AM
Dwight55 45 gunner said:


Quote:
When I was in Vietnam, my biggest fear was running out of ammo in the heat of a firefight.

My sentiments exactly. "Click" just does not do as much for the situation as does "Bang".

May God bless,
Dwight

Yesterday 09:47 AM
45Gunner At first I thought this was going to be a thread about reloaded casings....

If you carry a gun for protection then it should always be carried condition one and it as always advisable to carry at least one extra magazine or speed loader.
When I was in Vietnam, my biggest fear was running out of ammo in the heat of a firefight. I guess I have taken that fear forward in time and always carry two extra magazines in addition to the fully loaded one already in my gun. I cannot think of a single situation when one would have two much ammo, except maybe if one were in a boat taking on water.

We had a saying in aviation: The only time I have too much fuel is when I am on fire. Perhaps we could devise a saying for that when it comes to ammo and defense?
Two exceptionally good posts in a very good thread!
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Old April 11, 2010, 10:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45Gunner
We had a saying in aviation: The only time I have too much fuel is when I am on fire. Perhaps we could devise a saying for that when it comes to ammo and defense?
No one ever complains about having too much ammo in a firefight.
---Murphy's Laws of Combat

I've heard complaints about too much ammo when...
- It has to be carried into the field.
- It has to be carried out of the field.
- You're jumping with it.
- Crossing a river
- Inventory time comes around.
- You need to move it elsewhere.

But never in a firefight!

Aviation has a perfect record.
We've never left one up there yet.

(Takeoffs are optional, landing is mandatory)
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Old April 12, 2010, 01:24 AM   #23
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If you are laying down fire and require more then just one mag, then there is something you are doing wrong.
That's a pretty bold and arrogant statement.

You won't know how many rounds you will need until you need them. Myself, when I'm off duty I carry at least two guns and depending on the platform being carried anywhere from two to four reloads.

I've not needed that many rounds, but I have had need of a second gun before. Now would you care to tell me what I'm doing wrong? I survived the first rule of any encounter:

I'm going home alive!

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Old April 16, 2010, 07:31 PM   #24
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The OP stated mater-of-fact,
Quote:
I fired a few rounds into the ground and they quickly parted ways!
Why, Unless you were in a rural area that allows the discharge of firearms, you were probably in violation of the law.
Then if the discharge was within the law, why not as a last resort just 1 shot.
Remember Harold Fish did something very similar..........
More could be said, but I will saith not.
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Old April 16, 2010, 09:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
As private citizens, we are not looking to fight a war or enforce the law, but simply to give us an edge during the self defense encounter.
Speaking for me, I want more than an edge! I want huge odds in my favor.
I saw a byline somewhere tonight referencing that:
Last night (April 15) there were 19 felony shooting in the grand city of Chicago, with 7 dead as a result. Edge?
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