Powder Measure Methodology

jdscholer · February 11, 2009, 01:57 PM

OK, here's my rant for the day,--if anyone cares.

On one of Midway's TV commercials and now on the front of their master catalog, they show Larry Potterfield charging powder from a RCBS Uniflow, into a loading block full of cases. He is holding the entire block full of cases under the spout of the powder measure with one hand, and operating the handle of the measure with the other. He seems to be paying attention,---but;

I see a few problems with this method. 1: It seems quite possible to lose track of which case needs the next charge, or which direction you are going on the block. 2: It seems possible to miss charging a case or worse, to double charge a case.-often easy to spot, sometimes not. 3: If you have a sticky charge, or a slow dropping charge, it might spread itself into any number of the cases underneath the spout of the measure.

My preferred method of operation is this:

I start with an empty loading block on the table, with a pan full of ready to charge cases in front of it. As I pick up a case from the pan, I take the powder measure handle and do a short "clink-clink" top-stroke. Then I put the case under the spout, and do a "clank" down stroke. The charged case goes into the loading block, and I do it again.

If I have a stuck charge, or any undropped powder, it falls on the table during the "clink-clink", and I am able to see it and take corrective measures.

A case only goes into the block after being charged, and the block never goes near the measure. When the block is full, it gets a final inspection with the flashlight, and goes to the bullet seater.

This method has served me well for years. Am I being too anal? Any thoughts or variations? jd

tkofoid · February 11, 2009, 02:08 PM

whatever one gets used to and works,,,just do it.

kraigwy · February 11, 2009, 02:16 PM

actaully I load exactly that way (when I'm not using my progressive loader). Whats wrong with it, you check the powder measure with a scale every few rounds. Then when you get loading block full you examine the cases to see that they are all the same level. It works great for me. It keeps my target loads (High Power & 1000 yard matches ) accurate enough,

What are you complaining about, it a common procedure. Been doing it for over 40 years with zero problems.

mkl · February 11, 2009, 03:17 PM

I've loaded for 40+ years just like Larry.

Two bump-bump at top and two bump-bump at bottom with the Uniflow. The extra bumps really help to settle the powder and get uniform weights.

When I charge the cases in the loading block, I make sure I have no distractions. I'm really careful -- no talking, no TV, no radio, etc.

After I have dropped the 50 or 60 charges in the cases in the loading block, I place the block on my bench and using a flashlight inspect the level in each case very carefully.

Never had an empty or double charge in all my reloading time.

I only do this for handgun cartridges; I weigh my rifle loads as opposed to using a powder measure.

Alleykat · February 11, 2009, 03:38 PM

Larry should have been using a Dillon 650 on the cover of his catalog; nothing confusing about how that works.

jdscholer · February 11, 2009, 03:43 PM

OK, OK, sorry I blew up. I'll try to find something different to get picky about.

jd

TheOldPro · February 11, 2009, 03:57 PM

I guess I have too much time on my hands or just don't do enough shooting...I weigh every charge, and dump directly into the case one at a time. I load mainly for satisfaction, not speed.

wncchester · February 11, 2009, 04:12 PM

"After I have dropped the 50 or 60 charges in the cases in the loading block, I place the block on my bench and using a flashlight inspect the level in each case very carefully.

Never had an empty or double charge in all my reloading time."

Ditto. For more than 40 years I have just used a strong over head light, or step into the sun through the window to check the powder levels in a full loading block. That way I can not only see any skipped, or doubled charges, but can also tell if any charges vary more than a tenth or so, which I could NOT do if I were simply charging and then checking each case for powder before placing it into a loading block. ???

No check "system" is any better than the man using it.

cchardwick · February 11, 2009, 05:33 PM

Actually I tried the loading block method and it seems to really slow me down. I use a turret press and have five of the six stations filled and spin the turret all the way around for every round. I stop after the primer seating step and check to see that the primer is seated properly for every case, then when seating the bullet I visually inspect the powder. Once I forgot to add the powder and I tried to seat the bullet in the powder drop LOL. Easy mistake to catch with a turret press, and not very much moving around of the brass. I can load twice as fast without two loading blocks. As for the powder charge I usually measure the first five or so loads on the electronic balance to make sure it's right, then every five or so, then every 10-20. My powder drop is dead accurate to within 0.1 grains every time. I had a problem with it before but didn't have the powder drop adjuster tightened down, and when I started I didn't have the drop set low enough and was dropping powder all over the place. Now that I have it set right, no problems at all.

Sevens · February 11, 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Am I being too anal?

Yes and no. Your method is not too anal if it's what works for you. You need to make safe rounds and also be satisfied with your methods, however you do that is most likely the right way.

But yeah... picking apart a short little bit that's part of a commercial or ad campaign, I would say that is being anal.

I load single stage and I simply grab a piece of sized, primed, flared brass and hold that one single piece under my powder measure. When it's charged, I place it in the load block. I repeat until I have my full run... typically 30 or 50 if it's 9, 10 or .45, or 30 or 48 rounds if it's .38 or .357. When I have that many, I click on the gooseneck lamp that is there for just that one purpose, and inspect all the brass in the load block.

At this point, I typically charge two more cases, then I will pick two charged pieces from the load block at random and measure those two to make sure it's the charge I intend to use.

jdscholer · February 11, 2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

At this point, I typically charge two more cases, then I will pick two charged pieces from the load block at random and measure those two to make sure it's the charge I intend to use.

Hmmmm. I think I like it. jd

oneounceload · February 11, 2009, 08:13 PM

Another one who does it like Larry, and have, for 30 years - have never had an issue.......of course, I load on a single stage press.....have never had a double or no charge

wpcexpert · February 11, 2009, 09:10 PM

I can't remember, was Mr. Potterfield loading pistol or rifle cases?

Unless you are using a reduced load, I can't think of a rifle case that you could double charge and not have the powder spill out all over the tray. Admittedly, I haven't loaded nor load for most or even a fraction of cartridges out there.

Pistol is a different story, most of those, you could triple charge or more with the right powder. H110 is one of those you couldn't double charge a pistol either. Mine are almost compressed with H110.

I tried that method, I don't have my thrower set out far enough from the bench for that to work for me. If I'm loading plinking loads, I use the progressive. But my hunting/target loads are measured out one by one.

BillM · February 11, 2009, 09:18 PM

Most of my loading these days is on a Dillon 550, but when I do go to the
single stage press I always use the same system.

2 loading blocks. For the charging operation, I'll have the
primed cases mouth down in one block. Grab one, two knocks up,
two knocks down, put it mouth up in the other block. Visually check
powder level after all cases charged.

wpcexpert · February 11, 2009, 09:23 PM

That's two folks with the double tap method. Does that really help throw a more consistent charge? I'm really getting tired of the dang trickler, and/or removing 1-3 granules. I get real anal when I'm measuring loads. I'll take out or add 1 granule just to get exact.

I also, when I measure a charge, tip the scale all the way down before letting it go.

jal5 · February 11, 2009, 10:41 PM

I did the loading block method under uniflow for the first time tonite and one of the 38spl cases stuck in the drop tube on the uniflow. that powder went over half the block and I dumped them all and started over. The other thing was the uniflow dropped a slightly lighter charge in about 70% of them. I am going to try making up a baffle tomorrow for it. I was using Unique.
Joe

jdscholer · February 11, 2009, 10:48 PM

Ah-Ha! See! I just knew it. It's an evil method.!!

jd

jdscholer · February 11, 2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

I'm really getting tired of the dang trickler, and/or removing 1-3 granules. I get real anal when I'm measuring loads. I'll take out or add 1 granule just to get exact.

I got tired and bored with trickling years ago. I started using more measure friendly powders, and embraced the "volume over weight philosophy" and haven't looked back. My accuracy hasn't suffered one bit, and my reloading is much more productive. I think there are many other factors influencing accuracy that are more important than weighing the powder to the exact grain. There are bench-rest shooters who will agree with me. jd

Sevens · February 12, 2009, 09:01 AM

I don't double tap the lever on my powder measure or top at bottom.

With these devices, what's most important is that you choose a powder that's meter friendly and that you use the same exact procedure each time. If tapping it twice at the top stroke and twice on the bottom stroke is your thing, then fine... As far as I'm concerned, it just adds more work.

I "clink" it on top stroke, and "clink" it again on bottom stroke. Same each time. That works for me.

Titegroup is a powder that I do not have trouble metering consistently. Large flake powders can give more grief... Green Dot, Blue Dot. If the charge weight is big enough, I will sometimes switch out and use the rifle measuring chamber rather than the small hole pistol chamber. That seems to help a bit.

When setting the powder measure, I measure single powder drops until I think I'm pretty close. Then I will drop FIVE charges, dump them in to the pan, and measure the weight of those five charges and divide by five to get a better idea if I'm throwing a 4.61 grain charge or a 4.69 grain charge.

mkl · February 12, 2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

That's two folks with the double tap method. Does that really help throw a more consistent charge?

I think it depends on the powder you are using.

If the powder runs like water (usually ball or spherical types) it may not be necessary.

For me, using mostly flake (Unique, B'eye, Red Dot) or extruded (IMR-4227), I find that the double-tap method in conjunction with a powder baffle in the Uniflow gives me more consistent results.

Try it both ways on a dozen or so cases and then weight the results to see which way has the least variation with the powder you are using.

February 11, 2009, 01:57 PM	#1
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	Powder Measure Methodology OK, here's my rant for the day,--if anyone cares. On one of Midway's TV commercials and now on the front of their master catalog, they show Larry Potterfield charging powder from a RCBS Uniflow, into a loading block full of cases. He is holding the entire block full of cases under the spout of the powder measure with one hand, and operating the handle of the measure with the other. He seems to be paying attention,---but; I see a few problems with this method. 1: It seems quite possible to lose track of which case needs the next charge, or which direction you are going on the block. 2: It seems possible to miss charging a case or worse, to double charge a case.-often easy to spot, sometimes not. 3: If you have a sticky charge, or a slow dropping charge, it might spread itself into any number of the cases underneath the spout of the measure. My preferred method of operation is this: I start with an empty loading block on the table, with a pan full of ready to charge cases in front of it. As I pick up a case from the pan, I take the powder measure handle and do a short "clink-clink" top-stroke. Then I put the case under the spout, and do a "clank" down stroke. The charged case goes into the loading block, and I do it again. If I have a stuck charge, or any undropped powder, it falls on the table during the "clink-clink", and I am able to see it and take corrective measures. A case only goes into the block after being charged, and the block never goes near the measure. When the block is full, it gets a final inspection with the flashlight, and goes to the bullet seater. This method has served me well for years. Am I being too anal? Any thoughts or variations? jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

February 11, 2009, 02:16 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	actaully I load exactly that way (when I'm not using my progressive loader). Whats wrong with it, you check the powder measure with a scale every few rounds. Then when you get loading block full you examine the cases to see that they are all the same level. It works great for me. It keeps my target loads (High Power & 1000 yard matches ) accurate enough, What are you complaining about, it a common procedure. Been doing it for over 40 years with zero problems. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 11, 2009, 03:43 PM	#6
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	OK, OK, sorry I blew up. I'll try to find something different to get picky about. jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

February 11, 2009, 03:57 PM	#7
TheOldPro Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 31	I guess I have too much time on my hands or just don't do enough shooting...I weigh every charge, and dump directly into the case one at a time. I load mainly for satisfaction, not speed. __________________ All generalizations are false, including this one.

February 11, 2009, 09:10 PM	#13
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	I can't remember, was Mr. Potterfield loading pistol or rifle cases? Unless you are using a reduced load, I can't think of a rifle case that you could double charge and not have the powder spill out all over the tray. Admittedly, I haven't loaded nor load for most or even a fraction of cartridges out there. Pistol is a different story, most of those, you could triple charge or more with the right powder. H110 is one of those you couldn't double charge a pistol either. Mine are almost compressed with H110. I tried that method, I don't have my thrower set out far enough from the bench for that to work for me. If I'm loading plinking loads, I use the progressive. But my hunting/target loads are measured out one by one. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

February 11, 2009, 02:08 PM	#2
tkofoid Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2008 Location: N. D. Posts: 149	whatever one gets used to and works,,,just do it.

February 11, 2009, 03:17 PM	#4
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	I've loaded for 40+ years just like Larry. Two bump-bump at top and two bump-bump at bottom with the Uniflow. The extra bumps really help to settle the powder and get uniform weights. When I charge the cases in the loading block, I make sure I have no distractions. I'm really careful -- no talking, no TV, no radio, etc. After I have dropped the 50 or 60 charges in the cases in the loading block, I place the block on my bench and using a flashlight inspect the level in each case very carefully. Never had an empty or double charge in all my reloading time. I only do this for handgun cartridges; I weigh my rifle loads as opposed to using a powder measure.

February 11, 2009, 03:38 PM	#5
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Larry should have been using a Dillon 650 on the cover of his catalog; nothing confusing about how that works.

February 11, 2009, 04:12 PM	#8
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"After I have dropped the 50 or 60 charges in the cases in the loading block, I place the block on my bench and using a flashlight inspect the level in each case very carefully. Never had an empty or double charge in all my reloading time." Ditto. For more than 40 years I have just used a strong over head light, or step into the sun through the window to check the powder levels in a full loading block. That way I can not only see any skipped, or doubled charges, but can also tell if any charges vary more than a tenth or so, which I could NOT do if I were simply charging and then checking each case for powder before placing it into a loading block. ??? No check "system" is any better than the man using it.

February 11, 2009, 05:33 PM	#9
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	Actually I tried the loading block method and it seems to really slow me down. I use a turret press and have five of the six stations filled and spin the turret all the way around for every round. I stop after the primer seating step and check to see that the primer is seated properly for every case, then when seating the bullet I visually inspect the powder. Once I forgot to add the powder and I tried to seat the bullet in the powder drop LOL. Easy mistake to catch with a turret press, and not very much moving around of the brass. I can load twice as fast without two loading blocks. As for the powder charge I usually measure the first five or so loads on the electronic balance to make sure it's right, then every five or so, then every 10-20. My powder drop is dead accurate to within 0.1 grains every time. I had a problem with it before but didn't have the powder drop adjuster tightened down, and when I started I didn't have the drop set low enough and was dropping powder all over the place. Now that I have it set right, no problems at all.

February 11, 2009, 08:13 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Another one who does it like Larry, and have, for 30 years - have never had an issue.......of course, I load on a single stage press.....have never had a double or no charge

February 11, 2009, 09:18 PM	#14
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	Most of my loading these days is on a Dillon 550, but when I do go to the single stage press I always use the same system. 2 loading blocks. For the charging operation, I'll have the primed cases mouth down in one block. Grab one, two knocks up, two knocks down, put it mouth up in the other block. Visually check powder level after all cases charged.

February 11, 2009, 09:23 PM	#15
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	That's two folks with the double tap method. Does that really help throw a more consistent charge? I'm really getting tired of the dang trickler, and/or removing 1-3 granules. I get real anal when I'm measuring loads. I'll take out or add 1 granule just to get exact. I also, when I measure a charge, tip the scale all the way down before letting it go. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

February 11, 2009, 10:41 PM	#16
jal5 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 419	I did the loading block method under uniflow for the first time tonite and one of the 38spl cases stuck in the drop tube on the uniflow. that powder went over half the block and I dumped them all and started over. The other thing was the uniflow dropped a slightly lighter charge in about 70% of them. I am going to try making up a baffle tomorrow for it. I was using Unique. Joe __________________ We live in the greatest country on Earth- always be thankful!

February 11, 2009, 10:48 PM	#17
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	Ah-Ha! See! I just knew it. It's an evil method.!! jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

February 12, 2009, 09:01 AM	#19
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I don't double tap the lever on my powder measure or top at bottom. With these devices, what's most important is that you choose a powder that's meter friendly and that you use the same exact procedure each time. If tapping it twice at the top stroke and twice on the bottom stroke is your thing, then fine... As far as I'm concerned, it just adds more work. I "clink" it on top stroke, and "clink" it again on bottom stroke. Same each time. That works for me. Titegroup is a powder that I do not have trouble metering consistently. Large flake powders can give more grief... Green Dot, Blue Dot. If the charge weight is big enough, I will sometimes switch out and use the rifle measuring chamber rather than the small hole pistol chamber. That seems to help a bit. When setting the powder measure, I measure single powder drops until I think I'm pretty close. Then I will drop FIVE charges, dump them in to the pan, and measure the weight of those five charges and divide by five to get a better idea if I'm throwing a 4.61 grain charge or a 4.69 grain charge. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.