AR Optics Choice

[Nathan]

I have your typical 16” AR15 carbine.....meant for 10 yd through 100 yd shooting.....although I still reach out to 300yds sometimes..

I wonder which of these 3 options should I be using:

Red dot with 2 MOA dot.

Red dot with 4 MOA dot.

1-4x scope.

[spacemanspiff]

Watched a video last night about the Eotech 1-6x optic, looked pretty good. Even an unmagnified Eotech is pretty good, though I have always preferred Trijicon.

And while a red dot is a red dot is a red dot, I like optics that give some sort of idea as to determining range. Example: The chevron reticle of a Trijicon Tripower (discontinued now, I know!), the outer edges will be wide enough that a torso-sized object fits between them at 100 yards, and the inner edges of the chevron fit the same sized object at 200 yards.

The Eotech has an obviously wider view with its circle but similar principles exist.

[bedlamite]

1-4x scope.

^this.

https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-cla...m-4-matte.html
https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-tac...tte-black.html

[jmr40]

I've tried dots, irons, and bigger scopes. A small lightweight variable scope with 1X on the bottom end is near perfect. I have Leupold 1-4X20's on mine, but some of the 1-6X versions look promising.

On 1X they are faster than either dots or irons, especially in poor light. You can see the dot on a dot sight in low light, but the optics are so bad yo can't see the target.

When set on 4X or more you have enough magnification for big game or personal defense out to 300-400 yards. The only reason you might need more magnification is to shoot farther than 300-400 yards, or for small varmints.

[globemaster3]

What do you want to do with it?

If you are more focused on precision, then go 1-4 and there are several choices from the major manufacturers.

If you want rapid engagement, then go red dot. At 300 yards, a 4 MOA dot is roughly 12" if I've done my math right. Still smaller than a torso is wide...

I've run the green Ivans out to 300 yards with a standard M-4 and M-68 Aimpoint. I'm no Carlos Hathcock by any stretch, but it was not hard.

[Nathan]

For me, I really like the 4 MOA dot and irons for backup.

I use std magnified optics on most rifles, but they hurt this setup in 2 ways....they block BUIS usage and they really aren’t fast. The eye box is always slow to get into. I got rid of a 1-4x because of that issue.

Still, I want to see what others are doing.

[Uncle Malice]

for inside of 100 yards, I'll take the 2moa red dot like a Primary Arms or Aimpoint. If you want more precision than a low power variable is a good option, but it weighs more... so really it depends on what you want to do with your rifle

[Targa]

I have a fixed 3x power scope, covers the 1-300 range well but excels at nothing. Obviously better at 300 than a red dot but not as good as a variable power scope at 300 and not as good at quick target acquisition as a red dot. Everything is a give and take.

[9x19]

Another vote for the 1x-?x variable.

On my hunting ARs, I have two with 4x at the upper end and one with 6x. All work just fine for my uses.

Good luck

[bungiex88]

Just installed a vortex sparc on mine haven’t had a chance to sight it in but as far as the sight it seems very well built. I believe the dot is a 2moa

[marine6680]

Range toy?

Pick the optic you like best.


Want a mix of capabilities, with a bit of mid and short range?

Get a 1-4x or 1-6x in the 18oz or less range... Just understand that it is not going to be the best at anything.


A rifle that will be used for self defense?

Red dot... Always a red dot, nothing else. And it needs to be an always ready type... No fiddling with controls in the middle of the night.

A 2moa dot on sufficient brightness is easy enough to pick up quickly.

A 4moa dot is easier to pick up, but you lose some precision at ranges past 50yds.

[Guilty]

I have these optics on a couple of my 16" AR's:
Trijicon AccuPoint TR24G 1-4x24 Riflescope w/ BAC, Green Triangle Post Reticle
My aging eyes prefer a bit more that a red dot optic for anything over 100 yards, especially if I am looking for improved accuracy. At 14.4 oz, the Trijicon AccuPoint TR24G adds a little weight compared to a red dot optic, but it is simple to acquire the target quickly and the green triangle is easy for my eyes to see against any background.
Bottom line, if your main purpose is quick target acquisition out to 100 yards, a 2 MOA red dot optic should meet your needs. If you want to reach out further with improved accuracy or if your eyes aren't perfect, a 1-4 scope might be a better option.

[DMK]

For me, I really like the 4 MOA dot and irons for backup.

I use std magnified optics on most rifles, but they hurt this setup in 2 ways....they block BUIS usage and they really aren’t fast. The eye box is always slow to get into. I got rid of a 1-4x because of that issue.

Still, I want to see what others are doing.

If you have perfect eye sight and can ID your target, the red dot is the superior sighting system in every way except for two factors:

• You can't use the optic if the battery dies, where many illuminated magnified optics have etched reticles.
  
• Obviously, magnification and this is the big one. The magnified optic lets you ID a target at longer ranges and gives you better resolution of the target.

The red dot has a bunch of advantages over the magnified optic:

• Better eye box. Eye relief is not a factor. Looking through a tube is not a factor. You look at the target and ignore the optic tube.
• Focus on target. Though you can do this with an illuminated reticle magnified optic in some situations.
• Parallax is pretty much not an issue. If you can see the dot and target you can hit it. It doesn't matter if you have a perfect cheek weld or if you are laying on your side shooting weak side around a tree stump.
• Faster transition to a centerline BUIS if properly configured.
• Size and weight. Red dots are almost always smaller and lighter
• Battery life. Top quality red dots have a constant on battery life measured in years.

I like shooting with illuminated variable magnified optics and have been experimenting with them for a few years now. However, my HD guns still all have their Aimpoints on them when they are in the ready rack.

As far as reticle (as I said in that other thread), I like the Eotech circle dot the best. I wish more red dots had it (AFAIK only Eotech and Holosun use circle dot reticles, aside from a few cheap knockoffs).

The main benefit is you have the 1 moa dot for long range precision shots, and have that huge ring to draw your eye in for quick aquisition. You can use quadrants of the ring for hold over/unders (For example, I used to center the target between the dot and the lower part of the ring for 15y shots).

I wish someone made a red dot with Aimpoint's battery life, toughness and reliability, but with Eotech's reticle.

In the mean time, I use Aimpoint's 4MOA dot and try to make precision shots with the top edge of the dot.

[G.barnes]

What is your primary use for the rifle. If for hd and mostly shooting within 100yds get a quality 2moa red dot. If your shooting mostly 100-300 yds than get a magnified optic. I have an aimpoint pro on a lightweight ar for hd. Very fast target acquisition at close range and have no problem hitting 4 inch clays at 100yds. Two things to remember no matter the distance of your zero your going to have to hold over or under as you change distances and unless you buy a good quality (500 dollars and up) magnified optic your not going to get a true 1-4x. I had multiple cheap 1-4 and 1-6 optics and they were all about 1.5-4 or 6. For fast target acquisition with both eyes open, one eye seeing 1x and the other seeing 1.5x messes you up some. At close range with a red dot if the battery dies you can still use the optic. Put the center of the optic on the target, it may not be exact but it'll still hit the target.

[Nathan]

I too like the circle dot. Sig is using it also.

[DMK]

At close range with a red dot if the battery dies you can still use the optic. Put the center of the optic on the target, it may not be exact but it'll still hit the target.

That's a good point. You can also use a tube type red dot as a big ghost ring if you have a front sight fixed or flipped up.

However, if the battery dies with an etched reticle optic, you can still make precision shots. You only lose illumination. You probably don't want to try a 200yd shot with just a dead Aimpoint tube.

[9x19]

My SBRs each have a circle/dot type 1x optic.

Vortex Spitfires on the center-fires and a Truglo Triton on the Charger. These Votex have etched reticles as well and all of them have both red and green illumination.

They work well for me, but I don't shoot them at extended ranges (I could, but I have 16" guns with magnified optics (see post above) for that).

[Bartholomew Roberts]

DMK’s comments mirror my own experience. The old saw is that magnification just helps you see better, not aim better. And I can tell you from experience that magnified sights at either 1x or zoomed are not forgiving of sloppy cheek weld unlike a red dot.

At the same time, seeing better is an important part of shooting. Being able to see into a room instead of just who is standing in the window; or being able to see through brush or bad contrast with the background sure comes in handy.

In terms of most versatile for most shooters, I’d say a 1-3x or more variable is the way to go; but red dots do have some advantages that can’t be beat - particularly if you already see well.

[odugrad]

Aimpoint Micro 2 moa (T1, T2, H1, H2, take your pick). If you're shooting with both eyes open the smaller window won't matter. And it's lightweight and proven with an outstanding battery life.

Use a fixed or flip-up front sight if you want and you're good to go. I have a DD fixed front on several rifles and Troy flip-ups on others.

How often are we realistically going to be engaging threats at 50 yards? 100? I'm not one that believes a fixed variable is a good choice for home defense or self-defense scenarios.

The Micro will do everything you need out to at least 100 yards. .

[KW Gary M]

I had a 4 MOA Red Dot on my AR for years and recently bought a 1-6 X24 Vortex and am very happy with it. The 1 power is great for close range shots but the 6X lets me reach out to 300 yards. Anything within 100 yards I can shoot 1/4 to 1/2 MOA groups.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-...c-reticle.html

[Panfisher]

My R15 wears a Banner 1.5 - 4.5 x 32 scope. For ME it is about perfect. Since I used a set of UTG (20mm) high rings it is a quick turn of 2 screws to remove and slap on a second scope that bought later. Leupold Rifleman 3-9 x 40. Though I wanted the higher magnification to hunt with, however I like the first scope enough that I took the Leupold and put it on a .243. I do have an A2 stylenol stock if that has any bearing on it.

[Mobuck]

"My R15 wears a Banner 1.5 - 4.5 x 32 scope. For ME it is about perfect."

Works for me, too. I'm running the lower X Banner variables on several carbines. Good enough for most uses within 200-250 yards. I have to admit, I've shifted to compact 2-7x23 E-1 or Vortex scopes on a couple of my favorite 16" carbines. Doing pest removal work sometimes requires a bit more magnification.

[darkgael]

My AR has a Trijicon 4X32. For a long time, though, I used a Trijicon reflex sight with a 2 moa dot. RA01, IIRC. No longer made. It is essentially a dot sight.

[Viper225]

I have an UltraDot 6 on one of my AR's.
You have multiple Dot sizes 2,4,6,and 8 MOA. You also have a Circle Dot and a Circle Dot with Cross Hairs.
30mm Tube so you can see some real estate through it.
You also have an Elevation Turret.
It is also made in Japan not China.
Uses standard 30mm rings to mount.

I also have an EoTec, but it is down at the moment.

Shooting 3 Gun a low power scope 1-4 or 1-6 will beat a Red Dot out at longer range (100 + yards). Just faster to get on target with some magnification available. The Fast Dial Power Rings are the ticket also for multi range engagements. All the way down for <75 yards and all the way up for 75 > yards. Shooting 3 gun, you are in a hurry. They have the power ring at either 1X STOP or the High Power STOP. No in between settings are normally used.
I have been looking a little myself. The 2 best choices for me so far would be:
Leupold VX2 1-4X at $220
Leupold AR MOD1 1.5-4X has exposed Turrets $300

Bob

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by odugrad

Aimpoint Micro 2 moa (T1, T2, H1, H2, take your pick). If you're shooting with both eyes open the smaller window won't matter. And it's lightweight and proven with an outstanding battery life.

I hope you are right. I just bought my SIL a SPARC AR....was worried some about dot size and lens size for speed! We'll see.