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Old June 26, 2021, 02:04 PM   #26
Sarge
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The 300 Savage is a good cartridge but Savage themselves did it in, when they chambered the 99 in 308. Even under the current shortages, you can find 308 ammo at WalMart. 308 brass, dies etc are infinitely more popular and more available.

Of course I have no room to talk... I'm a 35 Remington guy.
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Old June 26, 2021, 03:20 PM   #27
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Ok, let me see if I can get this right.
Savage made the 1895 rifle, and chambered it in .303 Savage. It was a 190gr bullet at about 2000fps. In the early 1900s, the bullet was dropped to 180gr and velocity was slightly increased. It had a really good reputation as a woods game cartridge.
In 1899 Savage updated their design, and kept it in .303.
Starting in 1900, Savage added .30-30 as a factory option in almost all models built until 1940-1941, when WW2 production started. Both were discontinued after the war.
The .300 Savage was introduced in 1920-21. It was offered with a 150 pointed soft point at about 2600fps, which was about a 100fps less than a factory 30-06, and a 180gr at 2350ish that pretty much duplicated a .30-40 Krag.
They were really popular until the advent of .308 Win, add have hung on since.
It is still a great hunting cartridge, usually in a Savage 99, and still my favorite.
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Old June 26, 2021, 07:40 PM   #28
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By my count Hodgdon's website lists load data for 103 cartridges from 25 to 35 caliber. In the real world almost all of them will take deer, elk, black bear or any other commonly hunted game animal in North America.

If you start including the larger bear you could eliminate several, but could probably find at least 50 from that list that would take anything in North America. And I didn't even bother trying to count the ones smaller than 25 caliber or larger than 35 caliber.

Which you choose comes down to how close you're willing to get, how much recoil you want to deal with, personal preference and availability.

The point is that an awful lot of cartridges do the same thing. They can't all be popular.
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Old June 29, 2021, 04:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
Well, we can't get hung up on what people call cartridges until we get them to stop calling them calibers. That bothers me far more than using "Roy" or "Bob". It is far more annoying to hear people say what caliber should I buy for elk .300 Win vs. .30-06.
On another not-exactly-firearm related forum someone was posting about the "obvious superiority of the 7.62 caliber". From context I think it was a 7.62x39 fanboy comment.

I felt obliged to go through the list of "7.62" cartridges I was somewhat familiar with starting at 7.62 for the Nagant revolver, 7.62x25 Tokarev, then looking up the 7.62 nomenclature for .30-06 and .300 Win Mag. Then discussing that regardless of name that other cartridges such as 7.5x54 French and 7.5x55 Swiss use the same diameter bullets as 7.62x51.

Didn't quite have the heart to bring up 7.62 without a unit could be interpreted as a 7.62 cm, which would be the 76.2mm common in Russian WW2 tanks and artillery. Which I guess could be considered "superior" to the 5.56x45mm for most terminal ballistic measurements.
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Old June 29, 2021, 09:13 PM   #30
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Caliber (and calibre) have multiple meanings depending on where you are, and the context.

Caliber in the US is both the cartridge designation OR the bore size, OR (in Naval /artillery parlance) the length of the gun barrel, expressed in bore diameters.

And, the bore size can be land to land measurement or groove to groove measurement. Metric designations tend to use land to land, but that's not a fixed rule.

7.62mm is precisely .300 inches. Not .308 inches.

Our Iowa class battleships have main guns that are " 16inch 50 caliber rifles". This means the barrels are 50x16" long (66.6ft).

Caliber means different things depending on context.
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Old June 29, 2021, 09:56 PM   #31
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SAAMI's glossary is the industry standard for names, terms and conventions.

https://saami.org/saami-glossary/
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Old June 29, 2021, 10:08 PM   #32
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Thanks Bart B., I learned something new. I'll climb down off my high horse now.
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Old June 30, 2021, 10:26 AM   #33
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I love the .300 Savage. I have 3 rifles chambered for the round: a 99EG minted in 1936, a Remington 722, and a Remington 81.

As others have mentioned, the biggest detriment to the .300's popularity was the introduction of the .308.
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Old June 30, 2021, 10:32 AM   #34
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"It was chambered in Savage sporting rifles including the 99, Reminton 721 and 722s, Winchester 54s, and several others."

The Remington 721 was the long-action version, it was never chambered in .300 Savage, which was chambered in the 722.

Also, I can find no evidence that Winchester ever offered the Model 54 in .300 Savage.

There are a few known Winchester Model 70s chambered in .300 Savage, but it is considered to be rare and is a highly sought after item among Winchester collectors.

The .300 was chambered in Remington's 700 "Classics" line in 2003.
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Old June 30, 2021, 05:11 PM   #35
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Many ELEPHANTS have been killed w/ the 303...
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Old June 30, 2021, 05:57 PM   #36
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I hunt and reload for the 300 Savage... but I only have one rifle in 300, a 99F Featherweight with a skinny 22 inch barrel, heats up quick but very accurate and handy.

150 Sierra Spitzer 42.3 grains of Varget average 2650...Hornady 150 Spire Points average a little more with slightly longer OAL...now I only load Sierra 150 RN.

Love the cartridge. That said, there is really little excuse for a 300 except for nostalgia and wanting to load and experiment with old cartridges...the reason is that the .308 will do everything better and can be had in the same short action rifles including lever guns like the 99.

The .308 is supposedly a little more handloader friendly with it's longer neck but the short neck of the 300 has never posed a problem for me.
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Old June 30, 2021, 06:17 PM   #37
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with the 303 british, not the 303 savage.
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Old July 2, 2021, 12:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Many ELEPHANTS have been killed w/ the 303...
And many elephant HUNTERS using a .303 never came back from safari. OF course, there's no statistics on those,,,,
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Old July 2, 2021, 04:39 PM   #39
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My son had a 99 in 300 Savage and killed several Texas whitetails and feral hogs. He recently sold it to a guy for $2000 cash, which really blew me away. If I had not been there I would have thought he was tell his old man a little white lie. It came with a nice Weaver Scope, and two boxes of ammo. Ammo was the problem. He does not reload and looked for ammo for several years. This friend of his told him many years ago if he ever wanted to sell it let him know as he was looking for one in that good of condition. The gun was in 98% condition and the only markings on it was where the guy who bought it was salivating over the gun when my soon took the money and handed it to him.
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Old July 2, 2021, 11:09 PM   #40
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I just recently sold my 300Savage m81 Rem, Krieger Conversion and 99 Savage. If the neck on the 300 wasn’t so short it may have been the replacement for 30/06. Not good for auto weapons, so hence 308/ 7.62. I’ve killed deer with 30/30, 30/40, 308, 30/06 and several flavors of 300s. From the Savage to magnums. The thing they all had in common was the degree of dead they all were.
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Old July 3, 2021, 06:08 AM   #41
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With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.

I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
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Old July 3, 2021, 12:20 PM   #42
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Std7mag, Savage did make a Model 40 "Super Sporter" bolt action in the late 20's to early 30's, but I don't think it ever caught on. I have one, but I had never seen one before I found it on GB. Growing up at Camp Shanty Point (just a few miles past Hyner Run State Park), the Savage 99 in 300 Savage was popular (never saw a 250-3000), along with the Remington 760 in 30-06. Beyond those two, it was a real menagerie. BTW, my Dad killed his last deer there with a 7 Mag he bought for an elk hunt in Idaho. I have it now.
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Old July 3, 2021, 12:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.

I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
The Remington 722 bolt action was introduced in 300 Savage shortly after WWII...the short action version of the 720/721 precursors of the 700. I believe the pre 64 Winchester M70 was chambered for the round also as well as custom mausers and other factory bolt and autos, etc.

The 99 was produced in lightweight and short barreled carbines as well as full size rifles..My model 99F (Featherweight) has a 22 inch barrel and mounts a Burris 2.5x20 Fullfield and is considerably lighter than my Marlin 336, 20 inch barrel, in 30-30 (Redfield 4x32 1"tube)
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Old July 3, 2021, 08:45 PM   #44
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With the military adopting the 308, it pretty much guaranteed the success of that cartridge.
I don't see where the commercial success of the .308 due to military adoption has any real connection or bearing on the .300 Savage.

Quote:
Alas another thing hindering the 300 Savage was the basic platform of the firearm it was chambered in. While the Savage 99 is a fine rifle, it wasn't a bolt action, and it is heavy when compared to other lever actions.
Take a moment and remember the era of its design and realize that it was 1920, not 2020, and things were quite a bit different, then. America's love affair with the bolt action (and recognition of its advantages) really didn't exist at that time. It was beginning, but had not yet come close to the popularity it had later on. The very fact that the model 99 wasn't a bolt action, and yet could be had in a cartridge that rivaled (or nearly so) what could be had in a bolt action was a BIG DEAL to many people. And if you think the 99 is too heavy, pick up a Win 95 (or worse, an 1886) and see what they heft.

yes, the .300 Savage model 99 was heavier than some .30-30s, but it also had (generally) a 24" barrel and fired a round several hundred fps faster than the .30-30 (generating more recoil) so a little extra weight was actually a benefit. And, it shot nice pointed bullets, too!

Quote:
I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?
And many match shooters have learned the importance of throating the chamber to allow heavier bullets to sit out of the powder column in the 308.
Would do nothing but help the 300 Savage also.
Putting any cartridge in a rifle where the bullet can be seated out far enough to not take up any powder space always improves the velocity, if you use that "extra" space for more powder. Putting a round in a repeating rifle where the magazine allows that length is a different matter, and not one so easily managed.

Quote:
I know that Shilen, Douglas & E.R. Shaw all make prefit barrels for Savage bolt actions, with 250 Savage being listed as a standard chambering.

And with the 131gr Blackjack Ace, the long distance shooters are taking a harder look at the 25 caliber. Berger is due to release their 133gr & 135gr bullets any day now.

But with any of those the standard 1:10 twist barrels just won't stabilize them. You need a 1:7.5 twist.
Again, I don't see where .25cal barrels and loads are relevant to the .300 Savage....

Until the .308 Win showed up in commercial sporting rifles in the 50s, the .300 Savage was the "biggest stick in the smallest package" available to deer hunters, and was pretty popular because of that. Yes, there were more powerful rounds, but they came in larger heavier rifles. Yes, it weighed a bit more than the lightest deer rifles, but it also fired a more powerful round. Overall, it was a very efficient and effective compromise and was the one caliber still being produced in the model 99 when that rifles production was ended. Even today, that's a pretty impressive record, I think.
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Old July 16, 2021, 06:41 AM   #45
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"I wonder about the possible performance gain from Ackley Improving it?"

Take a look at the .300 Savage case. A good, hard look. It's literally already an Ackley Improved. There's virtually no avenue to make the kind of improvements that Ackley did with so many other cartridges, such as the .250 Savage.

The .250 Ackley Improved gains about 15% case volume.

There have been people who have improved the cartridge (primarily for use in Contender pistols), but from my understanding the increase in case volume is about 5%.

Given the shoulder profile on the .300 Improved cartridges I've seen I think it would be a problematic cartridge in a lever action rifle.
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Old July 16, 2021, 08:54 AM   #46
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I'm waiting for someone to Ackley Improve the 35 Remington. I know! They could re-do it on a blown out 308 case and call it....

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Old July 16, 2021, 09:00 AM   #47
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308 necked up to .358, isn't that a 358 Winchester.
I've got a 99F Savage in 358
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Old July 16, 2021, 11:06 AM   #48
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There is absolutely nothing the 300 Savage can do that the 308 can't do a little better. And the 308 come's in about every bolt action rifle made and I think I read you could get in in AR type rifle too. Walk into about any gun store in America and there's ammo for the 308, not so the 300 Savage. 300 Savage is certainly an acceptable cartridge just just not quite up to the 308 in any rifle! People select cartridge's based on what they read in the magazines and on the internet, writer's and internet user's don't go wow over something, it's gonna fail! If the 300 Savage had been the military cartridge and the 308 the poor step sister, it would probably be the 308 going under. No company can make money selling rifles and ammo in cartridge's that don't sell! Go around to gun store's and not much in the way of 300 Savage ammo or guns! And seldom anyone mention's it on any internet site, it's all but totally ignored. I think the only reason it was around as long as it was was because of the mod 99 rifle. Good as it was, the 99 is a relic of the past, just like the mod 94 and the 30-30. Today people praise AR type auto loader's and always bolt action's. But look what's happening with bolt actions. Wonder how much longer we'll be able to afford one with a wood stock?

With a 300 Savage I could hunt all of N. America and not feel under gunned but the 308 gives just a bit more in a short action rifle and in long action the 30-06 even a bit more. Don't read a lot about any of those three on the internet compared to the different magnums and God forbid our cartridge isn't capable to 400yds! Let's face it, most cartridges are capable to 400 yds the 300 Savage included. But your not gonna read much about that! If it was in the shooter, using the right load the 30 carbine would probably make a 400 yd deer rifle! In every cartridge we have the ability of the rifle and cartridge is pretty much gonna depend on the ability of the user. And I think the success of any cartridge is going to depend on the words of writer's and now days, the unseen faces on the internet. Would the 270 exist today were it not for Jack O'Conner? When's the last time we read anything from anyone praising the 300 Savage?
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Old July 16, 2021, 11:50 AM   #49
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When's the last time we read anything from anyone praising the 300 Savage?
Right here, earlier in this thread!
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Old July 16, 2021, 12:08 PM   #50
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Well I think the 308 defiantly hurt the 300 Savage!
If for no other reason than firearms manufacturers dropping the 300 for the 308.
I think it's main and strongest attraction is in the nice old rifle you might find it in. Knowing you still have an effective cartridge for most big game hunting is a bonus.
If I ran across a 99 or 81 in 300 Savage that I liked, price would be the only thing possibly keeping me from buying it.
Not the chambering.
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