Tell me what you think ...350 Legend hunting rifle

[Nathan]

So, it just came to me....

For a short range deer rifle.....Bolt Action controlled round feed, mechanical ejector, BDL trigger guard, manlicher stock, peep rear sight....or maybe a small RDS on the front receiver ring.

All in 350 Legend. Cool or am I full of hot air?

[kilotanker22]

Very cool indeed. I encourage this endeavor.

[44 AMP]

.Bolt Action controlled round feed, mechanical ejector, BDL trigger guard, manlicher stock, peep rear sight...

Unless you are restricted by some state law, there are many, many better rounds that can be put in a bolt action rifle.

And especially ones with commonly available brass/ammo (once the pandemic panic shortage declines).

[mulespurs]

My 350 legend lives in an ar-15 at my house
Not what you have to do it just worked for me.
My buddy has shot 3 inch groups at 300 yards repeatably with reloads and factory bullets.
Myself I went to cast and powdercoated bullets, some groups at 3/4" ar 100 yards.

Personal experience, 1 shot kill of a mature 155 class whitetail buck at 200 steps. It was a hi shoulder shot and completely took him off his feet.
Bullet was a lee 35cal 200 gr bullet cast medium soft gas checked and powder coated.

Powder charge was 21 gr H110.

I like the cartrige

[P Flados]

If you want a "medium" 35 cal dear rifle, it will do the job.

If your state wants you to use a straight wall cartridge, it is up near the top of the list.

Lots of folks in the straight wall states are real happy with the round.

If you want handload, be ready to deal with the need for 0.355" / 0.356" bullets and the "tricky" details associated with headspacing on the mouth.

[jmr40]

Unless you are restricted by some state law, there are many, many better rounds that can be put in a bolt action rifle.

This.

While I don't dispute that it will work, you're basically duplicating 35 Rem ballistics. But why handicap yourself with a short range cartridge unless required to by law. Or if you're trying to make it work in an AR rifle.

[Scorch]

A few problems jump out at me from a gunsmithing point of view. CRF actions are typically .470" or .535" bolt face, and they are typically long or intermediate length actions. If you are going to go full custom, a Kimber action with the bolt face opened up from 223 size to 350 L size would work, but typically these kinds of "cool projects" get a harsh reality check when it comes time to execute them and the prices start rolling in and stacking up. If you were using a push-feed action, a Remington Model 7 action would be ideal, but CRF adds a few twists to the road. Maybe it's just me, special purpose bolt action rifles sound really cool until you realize you spent an amazing amount of money on a rifle that is basically a 5-shot pop gun. Have I done it? Sure! Did it work out well? Well . . .

[Geezerbiker]

Originally Posted by mulespurs

My 350 legend lives in an ar-15 at my house
Not what you have to do it just worked for me.
My buddy has shot 3 inch groups at 300 yards repeatably with reloads and factory bullets.
Myself I went to cast and powdercoated bullets, some groups at 3/4" ar 100 yards.

Personal experience, 1 shot kill of a mature 155 class whitetail buck at 200 steps. It was a hi shoulder shot and completely took him off his feet.
Bullet was a lee 35cal 200 gr bullet cast medium soft gas checked and powder coated.

Powder charge was 21 gr H110.

I like the cartrige

Did you buy a complete upper or did you assemble it yourself?

Tony

[jetinteriorguy]

Other than your specific requirements you could check out the Ruger American Ranch in .350 Legend.

[Txhillbilly]

The 350 Legend is a solution for a non-existent problem.

[stagpanther]

Get a cheap 350 legend rifle first and see if you really like the cartridge (it's one of the few I've come across that I think is ridiculous), otherwise a big exercise in gunsmithing for something that just isn't worth it.

[NoSecondBest]

It’s going on the pile of “used to be” cartridges like the 5mm rimfire. It is a flash in the pan. It’s not going to live up to the promises made concerning it. Pretty much every shortcoming has been covered in the answers so far....pretty good answers I might ad.

[natman]

Originally Posted by Txhillbilly

The 350 Legend is a solution for a non-existent problem.

Not if you live in a state that requires straight wall cartridges for hunting.

Natman's law #23: If you see someone doing something that makes no practical or economic sense, there's probably a government regulation or tax involved.

[Txhillbilly]

Originally Posted by natman

Not if you live in a state that requires straight wall cartridges for hunting.

Natman's law #23: If you see someone doing something that makes no practical or economic sense, there's probably a government regulation or tax involved.

I've never understood those stupid laws in the few states that have them. And have also wondered why the citizen's (Hunter's) of those states don't protest or boycott those states Wildlife agencies to change those restrictions.

They make no sense!

[HiBC]

I've never fired a 38-55 or a 350 Legend,and I'm not looking up the ballistics to compare.
In its day,the 38-55 was a well regarded game cartridge. It made venison.

I'm making a wild guess that,for the purposes of our conversation ,the 350 Legend and the 38-55 are not so different.

Its not about paper numbers.Both cartridges will make venison at least to the limits of what most folks can use iron sights.

If the 350 Legend works out in an AR-15 package ,I can see it as a niche round.

Pursue whatever makes you happy!! Our guns are one place we ought to be able to select preferences "Just Because!!"

In a compact bolt gun to be built...cartridges
like the 35 Rem and .358 Win,and 338 Fed come to my mind.

Before I write about straight walled options, is that a a factor?

[7.62 man]

Well for me it's a great round & mine is not a bolt gun but it is what I have to use for hunting on public land because of the regulations in this state. I was using a .300 Blackout pistol but it has a very limited range so that's where the Legend steps in. Using Hornady 170gr I can reach 300yds at the range. My hunting Legend is on an AR platform.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Txhillbilly

I've never understood those stupid laws in the few states that have them. And have also wondered why the citizen's (Hunter's) of those states don't protest or boycott those states Wildlife agencies to change those restrictions.

They make no sense!

its that way here in Indina. The main reason that has always been explained to me is the population density and flatness of the land causing too high a risk of a round overshooting.

For years we were restricted to shotguns, muzzle loaders, pistol caliber rifles, pistols and rifle calibers in pistols. over the past couple years they have opened things up. straight wall rifle (with case size limitations so no 45/70) being allowed on public land. And bottle neck with case and caliber limitations allowed on private land.

So in short, government regulations created a niche.

With that said, due to 350 legend using proprietary formatted bullets makes it a no go for me. You can't just use any .357 bullet.

If your itching to get one really really bad I would get one of the ruger bolt guns and see what you think of the cartridge before you build a custom gun.

[stagpanther]

You can't just use any .357 bullet.

the 350 legend is nothing more than 9mm Luger in drag.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Nathan

For a short range deer rifle.....Bolt Action controlled round feed, mechanical ejector, BDL trigger guard, manlicher stock, peep rear sight....or maybe a small rods on the front receiver ring.

Sounds like a cool rifle regardless of the cartridge it shoots. However, as Scorch eluded to the economics haven't been planned very well. Once you start putting together costs, a rifle like you described will not be a pratical build.

As Scorch said the only .350 Legend sized CRF action was built by Kimber. They don't make them anymore in regular production, so a used or NOS rifle commands a premium. You'll easily be around $2K in a donor rifle and installing a new barrel. You'll also want to work out any possible feeding, extraction, reliability issues at this point before moving on with the project.

Then you'll be $500+ in finding a blank to build your full stock out of. Not to mention, you'll want to build a pattern stock first so you get the dimensions right before you start carving on that nice blank you bought for your finished rifle. So now you've basically built two stocks for one rifle.

Then we haven't go into the other nickle and dollar stuff that drives up the costs. Like metal engraving, inlays, checkering, front and rear sights, sling mounts, butt plates or recoil pads, and metal finishes. I think a realistic budget would start north of $7K on the bottom end.

[mehavey]

Stag & I always see this elephant differently.

Get a 356 Lee sizer and pretty much any 35 caliber pistol/rifle bullet can be used.
(one of the best being Speer's 180FP Corlok)
(100yds/AR)


As to Taylorce... you didn't tell your wife you were in this gun-game to save money did you?



.

[ernie8]

As a person who originally developed this cartridge about 5 years ago and built rifles to fire it , I find some of the comment interesting . I based the case on a expanded .223 case as they were free at the time . Winchester made their base about .008 larger so you had to buy their brass . The rim is the same size . I used a .355 barrel blank with cheap .357 pistol bullets . One reason I made the round was the poor performance of sub-sonic 300 BO on game . A good load was the .357 Hornady 180 XTP , as it was made to expand at pistol velocities it worked well at sub-sonic . Starting at a much larger .357 dia , it expanded even more . Loaded up to 2150 fps you then had 30/30 type performance out of an AR-15 . After building a few AR's I switched to bolt rifles . With a small action .223 rifles as a starting point you ended up with a small light weight rifle with low recoil , low muzzle blast but very good performance on deer and pigs out to 150 yards . A lot more penetration and hitting power then you would expect . In the end with the bolt rifle I had a very handy [ kids and ladies really liked it also ] hard hitting medium range rifle that used much cheaper components . Free cases , cheaper bullets and less powder . Every person I built an AR or bolt rifle for really liked them and said they worked well on game . I like my small bolt rifle for hiking around for pigs as it carries so well . My AR with a thermal also works very well on a herd of pigs at night . Many shots , less muzzle flash and noise , low recoil to stay on target , less chance of a ricochet with the pistol bullets . But after developing the cartridge , lots of load testing , 5 years of field use in different types of rifles by many people I may not know as much about it as someone who just imagines what it may do .

[stagpanther]

To Both Ernie and me heavy:

I look at SAAMI chamber specs and I see almost identical bore specs between the 350L and 9mm Luger. I think it's great that they have the ability to squeeze larger diameter bullets down the bore (we won't get into the possible case mouth locking on the bullet causing overpressure risk which me heavy himself has experienced). I have both an AR and bolt gun in 350L and have shot very nice groups with them, the only thing that even mildly interests me in the cartridge is getting 9mm smaller bullets going at very high velocities. I understand the popularity of the cartridge in hunting straightwall states; but it's hogwash IMO to call this anything other than a .355 cartridge--that's what the 350L ammo is optimized to, the best handload consistency I've found is using winchester's own 180 gr PowerPoints--which are...drum roll...355.

[stagpanther]

This is a "most of the way there" cartridge with a few aspects that need a bit of tweaking to make it a truly outstanding cartridge for the straightwall crowd IMO. First, I'd make it conform to 358 bullets to get the foot in the door of true rifle bullets, I'd lengthen the throat/freebore a bit and beef up the brass to take higher pressures. Done right--I bet those things would go flying out the door and the 350 L would fade into obscurity. I would call it the "358 epic."

[ernie8]

I guess it is hogwash that the best accuracy in all my rifles was the .357 H-180 . I have had no over pressure problems . The light bullets do not shoot as well nor perform as well on game . Thin , soft jacketed , soft lead core .357 pistol bullets have no problem squeezing down a .001 per side . The 350 L .355 bullets have a thicker jacket . My pressure testing shows no difference in pressure between the .355 and .357 dia bullets . Unless you are crushing the case mouth , there is no pressure increase . A case mouth does not have to " expand to release " a bullet . The bullet will slide right out of the neck just like it slid in when loaded . Your disclaimer is very true .

[mehavey]

I see almost identical bore specs between the 350L and 9mm Luger.

The specs are also exactly the same as the 357 Mag.
(Take a look)

Much ado about nothing.....





post script: The only pressure problems disappeared when I dropped Lil'Gun/296/H110 and Starline brass
in the discard pile, and pickedup in the Winchester brass Norma-200 game (magic stuff)
I kinda consider the LEGEND as little brother to the 38-55, in a much more efficient configuration