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Old March 18, 2014, 01:56 AM   #1
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Need help with gear for carbine classes

I was going to take some carbine classes at one of the ranges by me and I need help figuring out what I need gear wise. The requirements for the first one is 4 magazines (minimum), magazine pouches, gloves, gun belt, and 500 rounds of ammo and the advance one is basically the same but it adds a pistol, pistol mag pouch, 3 pistol mags (minimum), knee and elbow pads and 1000 rifle rounds and 200 pistol rounds.

Now, I've been trying to read about chest rigs and everything, but I still have no clue about any of it. My first question, since it says 4 mags minimum, I was going to bring a couple extra, but should I actually have them on me or just with me? I was thinking maybe have my main 4 on my vest/chest rig/whatever and something like the Costa leg rig for 2 spares. And since I'm going to be doing this during the summer, I want to keep everything as cool as possible, so would something like a flc vest be my best bet? I don't want something that's complete crap, because I have a Condor chest rig I bought for a Halloween costume before and it sucks, but it also doesn't need to be some tier 1 Gecko45 rig either. I would want at most 4-6 mag pouches, first aid kit and a hydration bladder.

And for the gun belt, would my EDC belt be good enough or do they probably mean something like a war belt?

And lastly, what are some good electronic ear muffs? The last pair I had broke when I hit them on the stock of my gun.

Is there anything else I should know or that I'm missing?
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Old March 18, 2014, 02:44 AM   #2
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Gear, kit & kaboodle....

First Don't buy cheap kit!
Get decent gear & equipment. It will make you look "squared away" & professional not cheap or ill-prepared. Many mall ninja outfits & gun show web gear will break or fail when you really need it.
Dont be that guy!
There are a few top retailers & open source vendors for range gear, clothing, equipment, etc.
Blackhawk(founded by a retired US Navy SEAL), , Galls, , Crye Precision, 5.11 Tactical, Safariland Group, , , , Blade-tech, COM Holsters, Galco, Bianchi-intl.

5.11 Tactical, CSM Gear, VooDoo Tactical & Blackhawk all have web gear(LCEs) that could help you. As for gloves, many "operators" like the Mechanix line. I tried a pair of Hatch Shorty style black gloves but returned them. I'd look at the 5.11 ATAK 2 line. They are designed for spec ops & rough use. Blackhawk gloves are impressive too but not cheap. They are available in different styles & colors(black, OD, FDE/flat dark earth).,,, Blackhawk also sell elbow/knee pads.
Don't forget proper socks & footwear. You don't want to "slip & slide" while you are shooting on the range or "run & gun" type drills.
5.11 markets a few popular shoes/boots used by working PSCs and LE.
Make sure you get clothing, boots, etc that are made of breathable fabrics that won't be restricting or won't allow air to circulate. You might be on your feet for long periods in hot, active conditions.
I'd wear earth or natural tones like khaki, OD, FDE, grey, etc with no logos or emblems.

Keep your gear & kit clean too. If it's dirty & broken, you can't expect it to save you in a critical incident.
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Old March 18, 2014, 07:55 AM   #3
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Call the people putting on the class and get their recommendations.

Buy the bare minimums because during the class you're going to find out what works and what doesn't. Like many, if you buy all the crap people tell you you need, its going to be pricy and you'll be wonder how to get rid of it because you wont need it.

I can't (and shouldn't) tell you what works because all people are different and what works for me may or may not work for you.

Again, call the people putting on the class and get his advice. Also try to get a list of his past students and contact them for advice.
Kraig Stuart
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
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Old March 18, 2014, 09:37 AM   #4
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Sounds like you already have a vest, but in case not then look at this.

Each mag pouch (4) holds 2 mags (8 total) and has 4 pistol mag pouches.

On the 1,000 rifle rounds needed, that is a bunch. I would get a repair kit for the rifle you are going to use, extra firing pins, FCG springs, extra buffer and spring, and maybe a extra bolt assembly. Firing that much ammo in one or two days will put a lot of wear on the parts. Or bring an extra AR if you have one, if something breaks it will put you out of action and waste a lot of money that you spent for the class.

Good luck and shoot straight.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Last edited by Jim243; March 18, 2014 at 09:45 AM.
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Old March 18, 2014, 10:34 AM   #5
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I agree on bringing a 2nd gun. Things break all the time in training.

Calling the instructor is a GREAT idea or looking at the gear list on their website

Heres my BTDT advice... Dont spend a ton of money turning yourself into a velcro ninja. The rifle with a good sling and a cpl of belt mounted pouches will get you thru just fine. Carrying 47 loaded mags is not (should not) be necessary

You dont need a full combat load out to take a class. Unless you carry that stuff for real its not needed for training

Look at what some of the 3 gun comp guys are using. Thats prob more then enough

Good foot wear is a MUST
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Old March 18, 2014, 11:10 AM   #6
Derbel McDillet
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I like ITW FastMag pouches on my belt -

I also have a second carbine set-up very similar to my primary carbine so if something breaks I just swap out carbines and drive-on.

Last edited by Derbel McDillet; March 18, 2014 at 05:26 PM.
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Old March 18, 2014, 03:16 PM   #7
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UTG(Under The Gun)....

I would avoid the Leepers brand & UTG(under the gun).
In 2004, I had a cheap UTG duty belt break apart after about 6 days.

I'm curious to know if the class/courses are for general interest or skill training? Or do you plan to work later on as a PMC?
As noted, you don't need to spend a ton of $$$ to learn basic skills but if you are going to work in these places with web gear, holsters, body armor, etc then Id get the best, well made stuff you can afford.

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Old March 18, 2014, 07:15 PM   #8
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Speaking of good footwear, I already have some good boots, but what are some good boot socks? The ones I have now suck.
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:03 AM   #9
Bartholomew Roberts
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I'd second the advice to keep gear basic. I'd also avoid dropleg rigs which are generally a pain in the rear unless you have to use them due to body armor making belt access difficult.

Tactical Tailor makes a very handy chest rig that kind of resembles the old Y-harness LBE with MOLLE attachments. The other way is to go very minimalist with everything on your belt. If your extra gear is two steps away from the firing line this works well; but if you are keeping your gear at say a schoolhouse building and moving from range to range, better LBE will let you get in a few more runs while everyone else is reloading.
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Old March 19, 2014, 03:31 AM   #10
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My 2 bits.....

There are a few decent boot socks out there; Wig-Wam, Thor-lo, 5.11 Tactical, , , .
As for chest vests or gear, you might want to look at a OD or black modular vest from 5.11 Tactical or another vendor. You can add or move pouches, mag holders, holsters, etc with ease.
I'd check & for first aid items too. Some industry & tactical types call them "blow out kits". A few band-aids, Combat Clot, gloves, Asherman(check spelling) chest seal, etc.
Basic first aid or "ditch medicine" may be required after a lethal force event or if there is a accident on the training range.
Slings may or may not be required for the rifle class. I like the well engineered Galco rifle sling. It quickly converts from left to right & can be worn in different positions. I'm always at a loss for the sling name but I'll post it later on.

As for class holsters, if you own a M9 or a Glock 22/17 you can get a Safariland AS7 holster. This new rig is fast, safe & can protect your sidearm. The sale price runs from $30-45.00. I may buy a AS7 if I get a new Glock 23.
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Old March 20, 2014, 02:36 PM   #11
Willie Lowman
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In my limited experience, they will tell you to bring 4 or 5 or 8 (whatever the number) of mags so everyone can load all their mags during a break. That way nobody has to leave the line to reload mags during shooting drills.

I have FLC vest that I like but I am not happy with the pouches that came with it.
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Old March 20, 2014, 07:38 PM   #12
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For training without body armor, belt mounted is the way to go, in my opinion. It tends to be cooler, less bulky, and pretty comfortable compared to chest rigs and vests.

If you have a military web-belt, you can throw MOLLE/MALICE compatible gear over that pretty easily (it just may slide around a little). A step up on the MOLLE side, would be a "war belt." Either way, you can pretty easily attach rifle and pistol pouches. For starters, I would go with a triple rifle shingle and a double pistol shingle. That gets you enough for most classes, doesn't take up a ridiculous amount of room, and is relatively cheap (2 pieces). I recommend Tactical Tailor for simple, bomb-proof nylon gear. I've only broken one piece of TT gear, and that involved body slamming it against the edge of a concrete ledge. HSGI has some cool products with their TACO line, but I'd wait until you develop your preferences a little more.

Add a holster and med kit of choice.

(Sidebar: ask your instructor what kind of medical kits/supplies they recommend. If they have no idea, FIND A NEW INSTRUCTOR.)
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Old March 20, 2014, 08:03 PM   #13
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Get a SOE micro rig and 3 single mag pouches.. no need to get all rambo. People get all overbroad with the tactical "Chic" look.
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
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Old March 21, 2014, 08:52 AM   #14
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vests suck.. they are all hot, rub in funny places unless wearing body armor and add bulk. get a good belt with a couple of double stack pouches a holster and regular pouches for the handgun and call it good.

and for the love of all that is holy don't have a vest with a blade hanging out for anyone to grab. Its the latest rage with cops. I just taught a department why that is such a bad idea.....getting gutted by your own knife is the wrong way to die!
No second place finishes in a gun fight.
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Old March 21, 2014, 08:57 AM   #15
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I should have mentioned that EVERYONE should have a blowout medical kit on every trip to the range. if not for you then the guy next to you.
No second place finishes in a gun fight.
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