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Old July 31, 2021, 10:05 PM   #1
Lavan
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Best way to get 1911 grip stud off of grip screw

Got a 1911 that I was gonna remove grips and one screw comes out with stud attached. It still works like a grip screw but I'm screwing in the stud too.
Tried pliering the stud but the screw is stuck in it and I don't want to bugger up the fine stud threads.
Both are staying in the grip so I can't get much room to mangle them apart.

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Old August 1, 2021, 12:15 AM   #2
ballardw
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May just be easier to get new bushing and screw if needed. Stake the new bushing before attempting to reuse the grip screws. The bushings are intended to be mechanically staked into the frame (or at least the original and many of the clones) so that they don't come out.
Sounds like the existing bushing (stud) wasn't staked in properly.
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Old August 1, 2021, 01:17 AM   #3
Mike38
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Same thing happened to me a few years ago. I used vice grip locking pliers to hold the bushing and backed the screw out. Ruined the bushing, but they are inexpensive. Yes they are supposed to be staked in place, but I used blue lock tite and it's held for years.
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Old August 1, 2021, 02:41 AM   #4
jcj54
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Remove grip screw from bushing

I have found that a set of wire stripper/crimper works most of the time.
Using the stripper portion I grip the bushing just below the flange and most of the time the screw can be removed with no bushing damage
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Old August 1, 2021, 06:11 AM   #5
Lavan
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I'll try that and don't know why I called it a stud.
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Old August 1, 2021, 01:12 PM   #6
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The reason Browning put a grip screw bushing on the 1911 was because the gun was designed for military use. He knew GIs would be taking the grips off and putting them back on thousands on thousands of times, and the idea was that when they buggered something up, it would be the (replaceable) bushing and NOT the frame.

The bushings are supposed to be staked to the frame so they do not unscrew in normal use. The Army has a special (offset) staking tool and fixture to do this. TM 9-1005-211-35 (April 1968) shows how this is done, I used to do it as a Small Arms repairman in the 70s. Its not difficult BUT you need the right special tools to do the job properly.

If you don't have the tools, I'd recommend finding a professional who does, and paying them to do the work.

Also, I wouldn't screw around trying to get the stuck screw out of the bushing, just get a replacement set. They don't cost all that much.
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Old August 1, 2021, 01:36 PM   #7
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I think I won't remove grips very often.
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Old August 1, 2021, 03:11 PM   #8
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Another removal method that doesn't damage the bushing is to use alcohol to degrease the bushing and the hole in the frame.

Put a small amount of Loctite BLUE on the threads and reattach to the frame snugly.
Give the Loctite 12 to 24 hours to cure, then unscrew the grip screw by using a fitted screwdriver and giving the screw a quick "snap" to break it loose.

Once apart, remove all the bushings, clean with alcohol and apply either Loctite Blue or Red.
This will secure the bushings, but they can be removed by touching a soldering iron to them to melt the Loctite.

When working with 1911 grip bushings, buy a bushing driver tool from Brownell's.
This surrounds the bushing and prevent deforming it, or worse, stripping the threads........

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...s-prod493.aspx
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Old August 2, 2021, 12:44 AM   #9
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The GI bushings I used when in the Army were essentially "single use" items. Meaning, that if they were removed from the frame, they were done and not reused.

The bottom of the bushing has a thin "skirt" that the staking tool flares against the inside of the frame, locking the bushing in place. The bushing can be unscrewed but doing this after staking (original installation) bends/breaks the skirt section so it cannot be restaked with any certainty that it will hold.

IF you get a screw stuck so badly that unscrewing the grip screw also unscrews the grip screw bushing from the fame, its best to just toss both, assuming you can get them apart to get the grip out. Usually one can, but doing so destroys the bushing anyway and even is the screw isn't damaged, I'd toss it just because its evil!

The staking used on the grip screw bushings is similar to the plunger tube, where a thin bit of metal around the edge of the bushing or tube leg is flared and the metal of the frame is not disrupted. Its quite different from the more common method of staking a screw head or sight where a center punch is used and it disrupts both the screw head and the surrounding metal "locking" them together.

There's no reason to not use a "permanent" type loctite on the bushings of your personal gun if they are loose or have been removed. It would be much simpler and easier than trying to recreat the GI staking method which would require not just the tools but also a new bushing, in order to work. Probably would even be stronger.

The GI 1911/1911A1 was made so that the front sight, plunger tube and grip screw bushings, and the ejector were not remove and replace parts. IF they came off, new parts were installed and staked. Though the ejector wasn't staked. Factory installation was a press fit onto the frame. A replacement of the ejecor (a pretty rare thing in GI service) didn't get staked, a hole was dripped in the frame and a retaining pin installed. The front leg of the ejector has a notch in it for just that purpose.

None of this necessarily applies to a non Colt, non Govt contract 1911/A1. Today's multiple manufacturers do what they think is best, and sometimes that only generally follows the pattern used in GI spec guns.

The guns I saw, inspected and worked on in the Army in the 70s were the WWII GI guns and a few were even actual 1911s NOT 1911A1s.
A few were almost like new and still nice and tight (service new not match gun tight) but most were more worn and some were very loose, but there was no service spec for being loose. IF the gun passed its function check, it stayed in service.

Interesting tidbit, of the literally tens of hundred of guns I checked inspecting arms rooms only 3 ever came into my shop for actual repair. And all were for the same thing. Gun dropped on hard surface smashing rear sight. (cracked or broken grips were replaced by company armorers).

In this regard the GI 1911s were like Browning's other masterpiece, the M2HB .50 caliber machine gun. I saw quite a few of those come through my shop, and all for the same base reason, someone dropped it and broke something, most often charging handle or sight ears. One time they actually broke one of the grip frames. Point is, the guns just didn't break or really wear out, it took some GI breaking them to take them out of service.

Yes, I know that is an overgeneralization and I'm sure there were guns that actually broke parts. I just never saw any 1911A1s or Ma Duce that had parts fail in the years I supported the 9th Infantry and 2nd Armored divisions. They got broken, but never seemed to break on their own.

Cannot and WILL NOT say that about the M16, M60 and several other small arms I saw in service.
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Old August 2, 2021, 09:18 AM   #10
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Lavan,

If your grip panel screw bushings unscrew, they are un-staked in the style of the Colt Goldcup. The simplest thing for you to do is to clean both the male and female bushing threads with solvent to remove grease and oil, then use a toothpick to apply Loctite to them. It will hold the bushing in place while you get the screw out. Avoid excess, as you don't want Loctite getting into the grip screw and locking that thread, too.

Assemble and let the Loctite have plenty of time to fully set, then unscrew the screw. I use the red Loctite 271 to guarantee hold. It's about 10 times stronger than the others. However, it needs to be heated to over 250°F to release it if you ever need to undo your work. On the 1911 frame, a hot air gun will get it there and the temperature is too low to bother the steel.

Incidentally, if one bushing lets go, the others are likely to at some point, so you may want to remove and clean all the bushings and Loctite them all in. There is also a staking tool available from Midway, but Loctite seems to work and costs less. Also, since there is a way to remove the bushings after Loctiting them in, you will have an easier chore doing that than you will have getting staked bushings out should you decide to refinish the frame at some point.
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Old August 2, 2021, 09:45 AM   #11
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Like several others, I use Loctite to secure the grip screw bushings on my 1911s. Personally, I don't like to use the permanent red version on anything firearm related. I use blue ("medium hold") on the grip screw bushings, and then I use purple ("light hold") on the grip screws themselves.
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Old August 2, 2021, 09:50 AM   #12
Lavan
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Never thought of that, Unclenick.

Leave as is and Loctite the bushing. THEN unscrew the screw.

Duh.............




suddenly I have no idea why I am concerned about this.
Other than "it just isn't RIGHT" it isn't causing any problem if I don't take off the grip.

Duh again.
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Old August 4, 2021, 12:48 PM   #13
HiBC
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I have the staking tool,and I have staked the bushings.

At some point along the way I ran into a frame where the threads in the grip frame that the bushing screws into were stripped.
No,I did not monkey them up,it was brought to me with a request to help.

They are very fine threads,56 tpi,as I recall....and 1911 frames are not all that hard.

So it occurred to me removing staked bushings could damage the threads in the grip frame as the staked portion is forced through.

Call it my speculation and fear.

I was able to repair the frame with the stripped thread. Brownell's sells an oversize tap and oversize bushings. The tap is expensive. But it works.

I have abandoned staking the bushings in favor of Loctite.Heat will release the Loctite with no danger of damaging the frame threads.

What also makes a difference is whether the screws tighten against the counterbore in the grip panels or jam up against the bushings.
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Old August 8, 2021, 10:34 PM   #14
Lavan
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New screws and bushings on the way.
Got it off but managed to crush the bushing.
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Old August 8, 2021, 10:48 PM   #15
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It happens. Welcome to the club.
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Old August 20, 2021, 11:30 PM   #16
Tex S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
The GI bushings I used when in the Army were essentially "single use" items. Meaning, that if they were removed from the frame, they were done and not reused.

The bottom of the bushing has a thin "skirt" that the staking tool flares against the inside of the frame, locking the bushing in place. The bushing can be unscrewed but doing this after staking (original installation) bends/breaks the skirt section so it cannot be restaked with any certainty that it will hold.

IF you get a screw stuck so badly that unscrewing the grip screw also unscrews the grip screw bushing from the fame, its best to just toss both, assuming you can get them apart to get the grip out. Usually one can, but doing so destroys the bushing anyway and even is the screw isn't damaged, I'd toss it just because its evil!

The staking used on the grip screw bushings is similar to the plunger tube, where a thin bit of metal around the edge of the bushing or tube leg is flared and the metal of the frame is not disrupted. Its quite different from the more common method of staking a screw head or sight where a center punch is used and it disrupts both the screw head and the surrounding metal "locking" them together.

There's no reason to not use a "permanent" type loctite on the bushings of your personal gun if they are loose or have been removed. It would be much simpler and easier than trying to recreat the GI staking method which would require not just the tools but also a new bushing, in order to work. Probably would even be stronger.

The GI 1911/1911A1 was made so that the front sight, plunger tube and grip screw bushings, and the ejector were not remove and replace parts. IF they came off, new parts were installed and staked. Though the ejector wasn't staked. Factory installation was a press fit onto the frame. A replacement of the ejecor (a pretty rare thing in GI service) didn't get staked, a hole was dripped in the frame and a retaining pin installed. The front leg of the ejector has a notch in it for just that purpose.

None of this necessarily applies to a non Colt, non Govt contract 1911/A1. Today's multiple manufacturers do what they think is best, and sometimes that only generally follows the pattern used in GI spec guns.

The guns I saw, inspected and worked on in the Army in the 70s were the WWII GI guns and a few were even actual 1911s NOT 1911A1s.
A few were almost like new and still nice and tight (service new not match gun tight) but most were more worn and some were very loose, but there was no service spec for being loose. IF the gun passed its function check, it stayed in service.

Interesting tidbit, of the literally tens of hundred of guns I checked inspecting arms rooms only 3 ever came into my shop for actual repair. And all were for the same thing. Gun dropped on hard surface smashing rear sight. (cracked or broken grips were replaced by company armorers).

In this regard the GI 1911s were like Browning's other masterpiece, the M2HB .50 caliber machine gun. I saw quite a few of those come through my shop, and all for the same base reason, someone dropped it and broke something, most often charging handle or sight ears. One time they actually broke one of the grip frames. Point is, the guns just didn't break or really wear out, it took some GI breaking them to take them out of service.

Yes, I know that is an overgeneralization and I'm sure there were guns that actually broke parts. I just never saw any 1911A1s or Ma Duce that had parts fail in the years I supported the 9th Infantry and 2nd Armored divisions. They got broken, but never seemed to break on their own.

Cannot and WILL NOT say that about the M16, M60 and several other small arms I saw in service.
Interesting post. Thanks.
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Old August 21, 2021, 08:00 AM   #17
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After using Blue Loctite to set the bushing in the frame, put #60 o-rings on the screws... the o-rings will keep from having to over-tighten the grip screws in the future, holds the screws in place, makes removing the grip screws easier to remove.
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Old August 21, 2021, 03:22 PM   #18
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^^^That's an excellent idea that hadn't occurred to me. Sort of like the o-ring lockrings on Lee dies.
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Old August 21, 2021, 04:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
^^^That's an excellent idea that hadn't occurred to me. Sort of like the o-ring lockrings on Lee dies.
I cannot take credit for that idea... saw it some years ago on a firearms forum.
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Old August 21, 2021, 04:54 PM   #20
Schlitz 45
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Over the years I’ve replaced all of my 1911 bushings with Challis bushings, mostly because I’ve found that I like the thin profile grips for carry. They have a groove on their bushings that an O-rings sits on under the grip & a second O-ring sits on top with the grip screw. The bushings themselves install with a socket wrench. If you haven’t used them I highly recommend them. They also make a great bushing extractor for getting your old ones out.
http://www.challisgrips.com/pg/17-He...-Bushings.aspx

Last edited by Schlitz 45; August 21, 2021 at 05:13 PM.
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Old August 22, 2021, 03:20 PM   #21
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Those look good. I hadn't run into them before.
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Old August 22, 2021, 03:39 PM   #22
Steve in Allentown,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlitz 45 View Post
Over the years I’ve replaced all of my 1911 bushings with Challis bushings . . .
Same here. I really like that using their O-rings doesn't result in the grip screws standing proud of the grips. Plus I've used them without staking or loctiting the bushings in place and they stay put. G10 grips stay snug as well.
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