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Old September 29, 2020, 11:27 PM   #26
cpt-t
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ghbucky: I carried a M1 Carbine some in 1968 & 1969 and also in 1971 & 1972 in Vietnam. I really learned to enjoy carrying that little Carbine and I trusted mine with my life every day I carried it. It was defiantly a causality producer, no dought about that. I never had any problems, with any of the M1 Carbines I used and carried. And I never felt under armed carrying one of them, in Combat in Vietnam. And now I am getting Old and My M1 Carbine is never very far out of hand after dark. And I still have complete compendence and trust in my old M1 Carbine 50+ years later.
ken
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Old September 30, 2020, 04:37 PM   #27
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The US turned out in excess of 10k a day of these things in 3 different factories. There is no way they would put that much effort into producing something that wasn't intended to be used directly in the war.
In the early part of the war, M1 Carbines were churned out and handed to just about anyone who rated one. Remember, as a replacement for the 1911, the M1 Carbine went primarily to the same types who would have rated a 1911 pistol (cooks, truck drivers, officers, NCOs, rear area types, etc) while the M1 rifle went to the infantrymen. We started WW2 with Springfields and Enfields and a few M1 rifles, and the M1 wasn't fully deployed until 1943-44. We handed any rifles we could to the troops who needed a rifle. Later in the war the lines blurred a bit as street fighting took the place of large fields. A lot of people get their ideas of what was issued from movies, and movies are notorious in their overlooking details. In Korea, there were a lot of M1 Carbines, but a lot of troops liked the extra energy of the M1 rifle. My uncle (1st Marine Division) was issued an M1 Carbine, and he dropped it and retrieved a M1 rifle at the first opportunity due to the ranges involved where they were fighting.
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Old October 1, 2020, 02:42 PM   #28
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I don't pretend to be a military/M1 Carbine Historian.

But I'll make a generalized statement. If you job was "Infantry Rifleman" most of the time you could do your job best with the full sized battle rifle,such as the Garand.
But it might be that if you are a Platoon Leader,or RTO, or a number of other serious combat jobs,you are most effective focusing on another roll besides rifleman.
You still need an effective weapon to fight with.

Somehow the folks doing the fighting have a good idea of what will serve best.

Sometimes that was the M1 or M2 carbine.
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Old October 1, 2020, 06:26 PM   #29
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Looks like a nice example!

I picked up a number of carbines over the past couple of years. Of course, I waited until they were going for close to $1K to decide to finally pick one up.

There is a lot of info on them on the web if youre looking to chase what you have down, reload, etc. Ive found some good info here.....

https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service...e-information/

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/manufacturers.html

Of the 5 Ive picked up, all of them were about 65-75% function wise, give or take. They shot OK, but I was having a lot of constant stoppages. Two things got them up to about 95% or so.

One, ditch the GI mags and get some of the new made Korean mags. They are readially availabe and cheap. $12 or so for the 15 rounders, a couple of bucks more for the 30's. Not sure if you can get a chocie, but some of the 15 rounders do have hold open followers in them. I have both, and they work.

The other thing I had to do to all the guns I have, and that was rebuild the bolt. New extractor, ejector, and all the springs. Numrich/Gun Parts has everyting you need, and they also have the tools to strip the bolt.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/

Once I swaped out the bolt parts, and mags, reliability has been much better and I rarely get a stoppage now. If and when I do, its usually one of the few USGI mags I kept and use when I shoot thats in the gun when it happens.

One other thing I ran across with all of them was, the rear sights had been knocked out of their staking, and the sights were loose. I even had one fall off the gun the first time I shot it. If you look close, you can see where the sight was originally staked in the dovetail, and if the dimples dont line up, youll want to move it back and restake it.

The CMP has a couple of articles on the sights and how to deal with getting the elevation to match the number settings on the rear slider. Assuming yours dont match up.


One of the reasons I never got into these when they were dirt cheap was, the ammo never was "cheap", even the surplus stuff, and it still isnt.

If you reload, its a LOT cheaper, and the round is easy to load for. The original loading was 15 grains of 296 with a 110-grain FMJ. Its basically a max load, but and the gun functions and shoots well with it.

Ive chrono'd that load out of mine, and its running just under 2000 fps.


Starline has brass for it, and it seems to hold up OK to regular loading, assuming you can find it.

One thing that really sucks about the carbines is, they throw brass everywhere and anywhere, and with no rhyme or reason. Recoveing brass can be a PITA.

If you dont reload, you may want to start, as, once you start shooting the gun, youre just going to want to shoot it all the time.
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Old December 6, 2020, 09:45 PM   #30
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I took one of my ten remaining Carbines out yesterday, after sighting my night vision rifles I began to bang away with the neat Winchester Carbine. She did not skip a beat emptying four WWII vintage magazines without incident, I was regularly ringing the steel targets at 80 and 100 yards.
I once collected the M1 Carbine accumulating close to fifty of them and then I got the Colt SAA bug and sold and traded firearms for many Colt’s. The ten Carbines left will remain as long as I do..
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Old December 7, 2020, 09:09 AM   #31
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A light-recoiling, handy little rifle...what is not to like?
This one is a Winchester.
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Old January 6, 2021, 10:45 AM   #32
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It is finally in my grubby mitts!

I've never touched one of these before, but at first touch I'm amazed with how handy and light it is. I can see why these are popular.

It came with 20 rounds that look to be in good shape, and what with the situation in finding ammo and reloading components, it may be a while before I can do anything about getting (or making) more.

I'm on the fence about leaving these rounds alone and considering them as part of the package or shooting a few of them because I really do want to shoot this beauty.
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Old January 7, 2021, 01:25 PM   #33
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Unless the rounds are dated, wartime production, which could be considered collectible, ammo's ammo.
I try to get at least "a" box of period ammo for vintage guns, as I like the old packaging and labels, but I've also shot some 40-50yo ammo, and never had any trouble with duds or hangfires.
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Old January 7, 2021, 02:16 PM   #34
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Sweet Shooter !
Be sure and wear ear protection ... those little buggers are loud .
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Old January 9, 2021, 09:00 AM   #35
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Have owned several M1 carbines, but am not a historian by any means. My understanding is the M1 was designed for the 15 rd mags, while the M2 was designed to also use the 30 rounders. To get my M1 carbine to reliably hold the bolt open on 30 rd mag, needed to install a bolt catch that originally came with M2's. Yes it works on both, but seems to have been originally installed on the M2.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/magazi...0roundnew.aspx
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Old January 9, 2021, 09:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Have owned several M1 carbines, but am not a historian by any means. My understanding is the M1 was designed for the 15 rd mags, while the M2 was designed to also use the 30 rounders. To get my M1 carbine to reliably hold the bolt open on 30 rd mag, needed to install a bolt catch that originally came with M2's. Yes it works on both, but seems to have been originally installed on the M2.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/magazi...0roundnew.aspx
There seems to be two functions of a hold-open follower on most guns. Firstly, to indicate that the magazine has run dry when shooting. Secondly, to allow for removing the empty magazine to be removed and a full one placed in the gun while the bolt is still open. So my question is: Do those hold-open followers on the 30-round magazines somehow hold the bolt open when the empty mag is removed as on a 1911 et. al.?
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Old January 9, 2021, 10:35 AM   #37
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The follower in the 30 rd mag can not function at all when the mag is removed. The mag catch acts in conjunction with the 30 rd follower when the mag runs dry to hold open the bolt. Removing the empty 30 rd mag allows the bolt to snap forward. The M1 carbine has a manually operated bolt hold open pin on top/rear of slide to hold open the bolt slide/bolt. At least on the carbine currently owned.
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Old January 9, 2021, 11:38 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
The follower in the 30 rd mag can not function at all when the mag is removed. The mag catch acts in conjunction with the 30 rd follower when the mag runs dry to hold open the bolt. Removing the empty 30 rd mag allows the bolt to snap forward. The M1 carbine has a manually operated bolt hold open pin on top/rear of slide to hold open the bolt slide/bolt. At least on the carbine currently owned.
Does the M2 have a hold open device that operates with the 30-round mag hold-open follower?
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Old January 9, 2021, 12:18 PM   #39
zeke
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M2 mag catch. Click on the link provided, and look at wording immediately below pic of mag. When i got into shooting M1 carbine, wanted to use 30 rd mags. If memory serves, the regular M1 mag catch would not reliably catch on the 30 round mag follower reliably, if at all. Also had problems with feeding from the 30 rd mags. Some may want to get into the semantics of what is the correct term is, but apparently the mag catchs were redesigned starting with the M2 for 30 round mags. They easily retrofit to M1.

For my M1 carbine to reliably lock back when fired to empty, and reliably function with 30 rd mags, needed the 30 round mag follower AND the M2 mag catch. Easily googled, but Fulton Armory appears to contradict itself on 15 rounders

https://www.fulton-armory.com/magazi...narmory-2.aspx

Last edited by zeke; January 9, 2021 at 05:22 PM.
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Old January 9, 2021, 10:08 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
The original concept was that the carbine would not be a primary infantry arm

It was intended to replace the .45 pistol for support troops
False on both accounts, look at the light rifle program from start to finish
It was ALWAYS intended to be a primary weapon
It was NEVER intended to replace the M1911

Yet this myth continues on, just like the 30 Carbine proof winter coats and the "My grandaddy smashed his Carbine against a tree/jeep/tank after he had to use his .45 to stop the charging Jap/Kraut/Macaroni that wouldn't stop after an entire mag from his Carbine" stories.


.
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Old January 9, 2021, 10:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Remember, as a replacement for the 1911, the M1 Carbine went primarily to the same types who would have rated a 1911 pistol (cooks, truck drivers, officers, NCOs, rear area types, etc) while the M1 rifle went to the infantrymen.
Sigh...
Seriously folks, crack open the stacks of TO&E's from the period.
Not trying to be an arse but these myths just keep getting perpetuated as fact.
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Old January 10, 2021, 01:32 AM   #42
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Similar to your M1, I carried an M2 (automatic) carbine during my hitch in the service. I had to qualify as expert every six months for four years with it, as well as my 1911. We were issued 30 rd. "banana clips" as they were erroneously called, in .30 cal. Strangely enough, I never fired all 30 rds. in auto mode. Great firearm. I know you will have fun with it!
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Old January 10, 2021, 09:05 AM   #43
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...crack open the stacks of TO&E's from the period.
I would if I knew what that was. But, not being a mind reader...or could I have just posted: BNBAMR?
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Old January 10, 2021, 10:12 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
I would if I knew what that was. But, not being a mind reader...or could I have just posted: BNBAMR?
1- Open search engine of your choice
2- Type in TO&E
3- Press "enter"
4-

Table of organization and equipment quickly refute the usual myths about the M1 Carbine as well as countless other myths about weapons and equipment. Take for instance one of the most common ones about the Carbine and M1911's being issued to "cooks & typists". I've reviewed countless TO&E's spanning decades and I have yet to find a cook or typist issued an M1911, typically the were issued whatever the service rifle of the period was.

The reality of the Carbine and its intended use is found in all the Light Rifle program documents, from the start it was intended to be a...
Cue the drum roll...
Wait for it...
Here it comes...
A light rifle

The original concept was two fold, the first being to replace the heavy, bulky M1 for front line fighters who's primary duty was to deal with other heavy/bulky equipment, like say a machine gun crew. One TO&E shows a Rifle Companies LMG crew being issued 3 Carbines and 2 pistols. Another example is a Weapons Company HMG crew being issued 1 M1, 5 Carbines, and 2 pistols.

The second was to evaluate the concept of replacing the M1 with a... light rifle. Although the M1 was a fine and effective weapon, almost as soon as it was fielded on a "modern" battelfield it was thought to be outdated in practical use, and they were right. The light rifle concept and the M1 Carbine itself eventually lead to the M16, which then evolved into the M4. Light and fast is generally better on the battlefield, which is why the M1 Carbine was so loved during WWII by not only our guys but by our enemies as well.

Here are two random TO&E's from late WWII, note the cooks sporting M1 rifles, not Carbines



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Old January 10, 2021, 11:22 AM   #45
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M2 mag catch.
The M2 mag catch was designed to stabilize the longer, 30rd magazine. It has a little extension that engages a small ledged punched into the 30rd mag tube that is not present on the 15rd mag.
Unless an M1 Carbine was taken out of service during WWII, never updated or rebuilt, it almost certainly has an M2 catch.
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Old January 10, 2021, 12:15 PM   #46
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Out of the 3 mix masters owned (2 sold off), none came with the M2 mag catch. But 3 is hardly an adequate representation of the general M1 carbine population.

Last edited by zeke; January 10, 2021 at 12:30 PM.
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Old January 10, 2021, 05:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
The M2 mag catch was designed to stabilize the longer, 30rd magazine. It has a little extension that engages a small ledged punched into the 30rd mag tube that is not present on the 15rd mag.
Unless an M1 Carbine was taken out of service during WWII, never updated or rebuilt, it almost certainly has an M2 catch.
I have a 30-round Carbine magazine that has a little ledge "punched in the tube" of the magazine tube, one and one-half inch down from the top on the tube's left-hand side (as viewed from behind. Is that the extension you are referring to?
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Old January 10, 2021, 05:25 PM   #48
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These posts about M1 Carbines got me to wanting to examine my Carbine a little closer. I inserted an empty 30-round magazine in mine and opened the bolt. While the 30-round follower catches the bolt and holds it open, one still has to draw the bolt back and depress the hold-open pin on the operating handle to have the bolt remain open to receive another loaded magazine. A disadvantage over an AR15 wherein the bolt is held all the way to the rear, facilitating a fast reload.
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Old January 10, 2021, 06:18 PM   #49
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No need to lock the bolt back with the "pin"...just drop the magazine and the bolt will go forward, then insert your next loaded magazine and cycle the bolt to chamber a round.
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Old January 10, 2021, 06:27 PM   #50
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My earlier production, six digit Inland from the CMP was rebuilt post war, and got the adjustable sight and bayonet lug.
It did not, however, get the M2 mag catch...I put that on myself.
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