Some observations from the range

SB · December 27, 2000, 07:51 AM

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right forums.

Last time I went shooting, I had the opportunity to try out some very difficult scenarios. First of all, it was already dark, so the entire thing was night time shooting. Scenarios included shooting a handgun from the driver side of your vehicle, shooting a rifle from the passenger side of the vehicle (both while holding a SureFire light I may add). Then, there was moving while shooting at night with both the handgun and the rifle (not at the same time) while holding the light. Basically, I had fun! And, I realized how horrendous it was.

First thing I did was the handgun/light from the driver side. I found myself having a real hard time lining up my light on the target and then the sights on my handgun. I could do it, but I'd be dead by the time I got it ready. Based on your experiences, what have you folks found to be the most efficient method of carrying this out?

For the second scenario, I never realized that the side view mirror provided such an intuitive and handy artificial support. Of course lighting turned out to be even trickier (I'm right handed). Also, the arc of swing was limited when the rifle was propped on the side view mirror. I shot sitting down however. I also tried to stand up and shoot, but with both hands tied up (rather than having the usual luxury of having one hand holding the hand rail inside), I found myself too unstable to shoot effectively. And this would be especially true if the car was moving (which it wasn't).

As with moving and shooting, I also got the chance to test out several lighting positions, conventional and otherwise. I find that the position that is most intuitive and quick to line up given the weapon platform is the best, since I'm lighting to shoot rather than lighting to gather information.

Something else I learned. Given what I would describe as NO light situation, night sights are useless. Sure, I know where my sights are, but I don't know where my target is. And to find my target, I needed to shine my light. And given my preferred positions of shining the light, even my regular, non-Tritium sight pictures can be seen. That doesn't mean I'm ready to ditch my night sights. The experience merely taught me just how vital it is to have a good flashlight.

And another observation. Because visual cues were so bad, I discovered that my rifle's ghost ring rear became a hinderance, blocking too much of what little I could see.

Also, building on experience from previous experiments done with low-light scenarios, I just want to say that, first of all, no light stuns. Sorry. In one experiement, I got two people together (who has never been exposed to the world of low-light scenarios before), and both adjusted to my light nearly instantaneously, and were able to get to me using my light as a visual cue. Partial blinding does occur, however, but not from shining the flashlight. Rather, it comes from turning off the light, leaving that greenish blur in their eyes after you shine the light. Anyways, the conclusion from the previous experience was to shine for a brief second, and then turn it off when you move. That way, your flashlight doesn't give the assailant any visual clues to your whereabouts as you move from your old position to your new one.

Okay, now, building on that, the exercise I tried to perform was to shine, shoot, turn off the light and move to a new position, repeat. Incidentally, all these scenarios are performed from the 50 yard mark (but I shot so badly that I had to slowly creep up to 25 yards).

Anyways, my point to the whole rambling is that the results were utterly horrendous. My brain is shot right now so I apologize for the lack of any organization in this post. What I'm basically asking is to take a look at what I've done and, based on your experiences, I'm hoping you can share some insights or clues on how to improve my shooting under these and similar circumstances.

Incidentally, all this has given me a fresh, profound appreciation for gun-mounted lights.

[Edited by SB on 12-27-2000 at 10:38 AM]

David Scott · December 27, 2000, 08:40 AM

Good stuff to know, esp. about the light-blinding. I just wish I could find a range where this sort of thing can be practiced. The only range in this county is really uptight about it. They will not even let you practice draws from leather! You just stand behind the little tables and bang away from low ready.

December 27, 2000, 07:51 AM	#1
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right forums. Last time I went shooting, I had the opportunity to try out some very difficult scenarios. First of all, it was already dark, so the entire thing was night time shooting. Scenarios included shooting a handgun from the driver side of your vehicle, shooting a rifle from the passenger side of the vehicle (both while holding a SureFire light I may add). Then, there was moving while shooting at night with both the handgun and the rifle (not at the same time) while holding the light. Basically, I had fun! And, I realized how horrendous it was. First thing I did was the handgun/light from the driver side. I found myself having a real hard time lining up my light on the target and then the sights on my handgun. I could do it, but I'd be dead by the time I got it ready. Based on your experiences, what have you folks found to be the most efficient method of carrying this out? For the second scenario, I never realized that the side view mirror provided such an intuitive and handy artificial support. Of course lighting turned out to be even trickier (I'm right handed). Also, the arc of swing was limited when the rifle was propped on the side view mirror. I shot sitting down however. I also tried to stand up and shoot, but with both hands tied up (rather than having the usual luxury of having one hand holding the hand rail inside), I found myself too unstable to shoot effectively. And this would be especially true if the car was moving (which it wasn't). As with moving and shooting, I also got the chance to test out several lighting positions, conventional and otherwise. I find that the position that is most intuitive and quick to line up given the weapon platform is the best, since I'm lighting to shoot rather than lighting to gather information. Something else I learned. Given what I would describe as NO light situation, night sights are useless. Sure, I know where my sights are, but I don't know where my target is. And to find my target, I needed to shine my light. And given my preferred positions of shining the light, even my regular, non-Tritium sight pictures can be seen. That doesn't mean I'm ready to ditch my night sights. The experience merely taught me just how vital it is to have a good flashlight. And another observation. Because visual cues were so bad, I discovered that my rifle's ghost ring rear became a hinderance, blocking too much of what little I could see. Also, building on experience from previous experiments done with low-light scenarios, I just want to say that, first of all, no light stuns. Sorry. In one experiement, I got two people together (who has never been exposed to the world of low-light scenarios before), and both adjusted to my light nearly instantaneously, and were able to get to me using my light as a visual cue. Partial blinding does occur, however, but not from shining the flashlight. Rather, it comes from turning off the light, leaving that greenish blur in their eyes after you shine the light. Anyways, the conclusion from the previous experience was to shine for a brief second, and then turn it off when you move. That way, your flashlight doesn't give the assailant any visual clues to your whereabouts as you move from your old position to your new one. Okay, now, building on that, the exercise I tried to perform was to shine, shoot, turn off the light and move to a new position, repeat. Incidentally, all these scenarios are performed from the 50 yard mark (but I shot so badly that I had to slowly creep up to 25 yards). Anyways, my point to the whole rambling is that the results were utterly horrendous. My brain is shot right now so I apologize for the lack of any organization in this post. What I'm basically asking is to take a look at what I've done and, based on your experiences, I'm hoping you can share some insights or clues on how to improve my shooting under these and similar circumstances. Incidentally, all this has given me a fresh, profound appreciation for gun-mounted lights. [Edited by SB on 12-27-2000 at 10:38 AM]

December 27, 2000, 08:40 AM	#2
David Scott Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2000 Posts: 2,456	Good stuff to know, esp. about the light-blinding. I just wish I could find a range where this sort of thing can be practiced. The only range in this county is really uptight about it. They will not even let you practice draws from leather! You just stand behind the little tables and bang away from low ready.