C96 Mauser Broomhandle help

[kilimanjaro]

I'm going to second 44 AMP on this, you did not get a professional service from the so-called gunsmith you paid for advice.

Get another qualified smith on the line.

[Cossack]

The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think I should have demanded a bit more at the time. I'll call the shop owner (not the same guy as smith), and explain the situation. Cripes, a pen, which measures .325 on my calipers, drops straight through with no resistance. I'll try to make good on what I paid these guys, and use someone else in the future.

Thanks for reinforcing my gut instinct -that I didn't quite get what I paid for. (I think it was $30, for what it's worth)

[James K]

A note on barrel lining. The process is commonly done with .22's and low pressure calibers (e.g., .32-20) to give old rifles a new "lease on life". First the barrel is drilled out with a long drill that follows the old bore. Then the liner and bore are tinned (old way) or epoxied (new way) and the liner pressed in. The liner includes the chamber, but it may need finish reamed. The liner will probably need cut off or other finish work, like an extractor cut, done.

Now comes the problem. As long as the pressure is low, the liner itself is enough to stand up to the pressure. But the hole drilled or reamed in the barrel is not perfect, and there needs to be room for the solder or epoxy. If the pressure is too high, the liner will swell out into the irregular space in the original barrel and the result will be a swollen and bulged liner and an inaccurate barrel.

Another way is to bore or ream the original barrel to a thin shell and then insert a new barrel, thick enough to withstand high pressure by itself. That is feasible in some cases, but much depends on the original barrel profile. The process is sometimes called "sleeving" since the original barrel becomes a thin sleeve. Both systems will preserve original markings on collectible guns.

I may be wrong, but AFAIK, those C-96 pistols were worked over in one of two ways, neither of which involved lining. Either the barrels were reamed out to 9mm bore size (.346") and re-rifled, or the barrel was cut off ahead of the receiver part, the stub drilled out, and a new barrel inserted. Either was quite feasible; I doubt lining (as generally understood) would be.

Jim

[4V50 Gary]

Great gunsmith. Find someone who can do a chamber cast.
Heck you can do it yourself.

[Jim Watson]

I have seen both sorts.

HOWEVER: Mr Redman says, at http://www.redmansrifling.com/mauser.htm

Mauser Broomhandle Relining to 7.63
Relining your Broomhandle or Bolo to 7.63 Mauser is an excellent method to restore your bore. You will still retain the original exterior of the bbl. but the bore will be restored like new. I use the finest barrel liner available, made here in our shop from 4140 alloy steel. They are button rifled with a bore that is ultra smooth and uniform, with sharp, distinct rifling. They have 6 lands and grooves like the original bbls. I make my liner with a .308" groove and 1-10" twist. The liner goes all the way through the bbl. and you get a new chamber which is set up with minimum headspace. I use a special retaining compound to secure the liner in place and it is guaranteed never to come out and it will withstand the temps of hot tank blueing. I blend in the liner at the muzzle so you don't see the seam. You will receive the finest reline in the country and I guarantee it!

He doesn't speak as to whether the old barrel or the liner is taking the load, but it is clear that he RELINES the barrel to the original caliber from end to end.

I am pretty sure the late David Woodruff would do the same.

Mike Sayers dba T.J.s Enterprises makes liners in a wide variety of calibers by hammer forging. You can even get a proper .311" for .30 Luger that I am sure would work in .30 Mauser.
John Taylor uses a lot of them.

[Cossack]

Thanks for the thoughts on relining James and Jim. Redman's was one of the sites I was checking out and he's been recommended to me. But I'll do more research before trusting that to hold up. I might go with the 9mm route instead if it doesn't seem like it would hold up to use.

I shot 3 rounds of 7.63 today: the first was remote and unaimed in case some part of the old gun was planning to fail. The second two were aimed from 5 yards. None of the three cycled the action. When hand-ejected, cases showed considerable widening of the mouth and had unburned powder visible within and around the case neck. the two aimed shots hit up and left, about 3" and 4.5" away from the point of aim. Both were tumbling, which didn't surprise me. Looks like she needs surgery indeed.

[Cossack]

Double check my diagnostic and tell me if I'm wrong: I assume the failure to cycle is due to the grossly oversize bore - gasses are escaping forward around the projectile, so there's not enough pressure to cycle the action.

Does that sound right?

[tangolima]

Sounds right. But it isn't a gas operated action, so pressure is not the direct cause. Gas bypasses the projectile, so that it can't reach the expected muzzle velocity. Not enough momentum to fully cycle the action.

I still think you are more likely to have a 9mm broomhandle. A good chamber cast should tell.

-TL

[4V50 Gary]

Newton's law. Gases escaping from the front means there's less gas going backwards towards the case, which means less pressure against the locking mechanism.

As suggested earlier, get a chamber cast.

[bbqncigars]

FWIW, I had my C96 restored and relined by Redmans a few years ago. It looks gorgeous and shoots 7.63 well. Or at least as well as the original sights and trigger can do.

[Cossack]

Thanks. I'm thinking Redman's is in this gun's future. I'm on the fence between 9mm and 7.63, but I think that redoing the bore will make the best gun out of it.

It occurred to me that, because of the ability to chamber the 9mm, perhaps I have a 7.63 that someone inadvertently fired a 9mm from, stretching the bore, but I don't know how I would determine that.

What I might do is call Redman and ask if he'll take a look at it to decide which fix would be most cost effective and function best considering the state of the bore and chamber. But I might do a better slugging and chamber cast first.