Newbie Needing help

bailey91945 · February 25, 2014, 02:26 PM

I am fairly new to reloading and have ran into a little problem. I am reloading for a Savage 110 chambered in .308, with a 1 in 10" twist. I am usinf once shot win. brass, that has been through the gamet of cleaning and prep. I am also using CCI #200 primers, different bullet type and weights with different powders. My OAL is 2.770" on all of the rounds that I fired. As you can see from the pictures all of my shots are landing about 1 foot to the left of my intended target. The astricks are factory Match grade ammo used just to verify my rifle/scope was not off. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated before I rip out my hair trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. My best guess is that my OAL is too short. But I do not think that would throw off shot placement so far. Thanks

mdmtj · February 25, 2014, 02:50 PM

I'm understanding that your reloads are aimed at the right box and impacting in the left box. You factory rounds are aimed at which box?

OK - Looking at both images & reading more closely I understand all rounds are aimed at the right box.

bailey91945 · February 25, 2014, 02:58 PM

On one picture the factory ammo was aimed at the right hand side targets. These were Honaday Match 168gr. I marked these shots with an astrick. The other picture the factory, same HRNDY were aimed at the left hand second target from the top. I got tired of wasting the right hand side of the target to ensure that my rifle was not off. Not the best shooting, with the factory ammo, but still within about 2 inches of center. This was the first time I had taken out my reloads and was trying to see what formula would have the best grouping.

Brian Pfleuger · February 25, 2014, 03:02 PM

Different bullets, powder and primers.... not terribly surprising that they don't hit the same spot.

Sight in for where they hit. Groups size matters, impact location can be adjusted.

precision_shooter · February 25, 2014, 03:16 PM

Looks like you just need to adjust your scope to match the load you're shooting.

TylerOutdoorsman · February 25, 2014, 03:20 PM

I agree with Brian Pflueger...your point of impact has changed due to your load configuration being different from the factory loads. As long as your groups are tight enough to suit your needs, adjust your optics and to your new load and proceed.

bailey91945 · February 25, 2014, 03:28 PM

Thanks all, I will guess I was just worried I was doing something wrong, because the impact was so far off from the intended target. I will keep shooting my reloads until I find a consistant grouping then adjust my optics from there.

Brian Pfleuger · February 25, 2014, 03:32 PM

I'd certainly adjust the sights now... no reason to shoot a foot left while developing loads.

bailey91945 · February 25, 2014, 10:48 PM

Can someone explain to me why all my reloads would be so far to the left compared to factory ammo? I understand the concept of all bullets are going to fire differently, but the whole "one foot off" is bugging me now. I can understand a couple inches off of factory but not a foot. Also since I adjusted my optics for reloads, can I go back to shooting factory ammo or will I have the same problem as I do now? I just want to learn as much as I can about reloading. Thanks for any advice.

savagest · February 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

how long is the barrel?

Jimro · February 25, 2014, 10:58 PM

I've seen shifts that big going between to different brands of factory ammo.

And try switching to a CCI 250 magnum primer to light off that BLC-2. I know that CCI primers are supposed to be formulated to light off ball powder, but you won't know if it will help unless you try it.

Jimro

savagest · February 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

and also, it doesn't look like you are shooting very well even with factory ammo.

what is the distance here?

are you shooting standing up, off a bi pod, are you using sandbags?

bailey91945 · February 26, 2014, 11:22 AM

24 inch barrel, was shooting at 200 yards, off of a table and bags. The factory ammo shots were kind of rushed. I shot them between the reload shots and was getting pretty frustrated. I have about 20 rounds loaded with mag primers and BLC-2 powder so I am going to try them on Sunday. I did lighten the powder with these rounds just to be safe.

Brian Pfleuger · February 26, 2014, 11:31 AM

A foot left at 200? I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Like I said, everything about the load is different than the factory loads.

I changed nothing but powder in my .204 and shot about 4" left at 100.

Adjust your sights and be happy. No, you probably won't ever be able to shoot factory ammo to the same aim point. You're a reloader now, why would you care?

Stavman11 · February 26, 2014, 12:05 PM

Different weight and powder will change yer point of impact Considerably...

I only shoot .223 in rifle..
50gr V-max with h335 powder is WAY different POI than a 55gr V-max with same powder...

with my FMJ-BT , at 100yds, they shoot 3-4" left and 3" high versus my V-Max and Dogtown HP's

Just the way of the world... and part of the learning in Loading Ammo

so Sight yer rifle in for the re-loads and youll be dialed...

savagest · February 26, 2014, 12:51 PM

Yeah not bad. I would bring all testing to 100 yards and go from there.

William T. Watts · February 26, 2014, 02:22 PM

Think of your barrel as a tuning fork, it can be anywhere in a 360 degree circle at the point of bullet release, anything you change can and will change the release point of the bullet when it leaves the barrel. What your trying to do and your complicating the heck out of it is look for small groups and adjust the cross hairs to intersect where the bullet is actually hitting! William

mikld · February 26, 2014, 02:30 PM

Similar to what Mr. Watts posted; different powders/powder charges/primers/bullets/etc., will set up different barrel harmonics/vibrations. Depending on when the bullet leaves the muzzle during an oscillation, the POI will move. 12" @ 200, 6" at 100? I'd just adjust my scope...

savagest · February 26, 2014, 05:25 PM

Look up barrel flexing on youtube for a demo. I would post a link but i get in trouble when i do. Lol

February 25, 2014, 03:02 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Different bullets, powder and primers.... not terribly surprising that they don't hit the same spot. Sight in for where they hit. Groups size matters, impact location can be adjusted. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 25, 2014, 03:16 PM	#5
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Looks like you just need to adjust your scope to match the load you're shooting. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

February 25, 2014, 03:20 PM	#6
TylerOutdoorsman Member Join Date: October 21, 2012 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 49	I agree with Brian Pflueger...your point of impact has changed due to your load configuration being different from the factory loads. As long as your groups are tight enough to suit your needs, adjust your optics and to your new load and proceed. __________________ "...Let he who does not have a sword, sell his cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36b Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

February 25, 2014, 03:32 PM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I'd certainly adjust the sights now... no reason to shoot a foot left while developing loads. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 25, 2014, 10:58 PM	#11
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	I've seen shifts that big going between to different brands of factory ammo. And try switching to a CCI 250 magnum primer to light off that BLC-2. I know that CCI primers are supposed to be formulated to light off ball powder, but you won't know if it will help unless you try it. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 25, 2014, 02:50 PM	#2
mdmtj Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Posts: 80	I'm understanding that your reloads are aimed at the right box and impacting in the left box. You factory rounds are aimed at which box? OK - Looking at both images & reading more closely I understand all rounds are aimed at the right box.

February 25, 2014, 02:58 PM	#3
bailey91945 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 5	On one picture the factory ammo was aimed at the right hand side targets. These were Honaday Match 168gr. I marked these shots with an astrick. The other picture the factory, same HRNDY were aimed at the left hand second target from the top. I got tired of wasting the right hand side of the target to ensure that my rifle was not off. Not the best shooting, with the factory ammo, but still within about 2 inches of center. This was the first time I had taken out my reloads and was trying to see what formula would have the best grouping.

February 25, 2014, 03:28 PM	#7
bailey91945 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 5	Thanks all, I will guess I was just worried I was doing something wrong, because the impact was so far off from the intended target. I will keep shooting my reloads until I find a consistant grouping then adjust my optics from there.

February 25, 2014, 10:48 PM	#9
bailey91945 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 5	Can someone explain to me why all my reloads would be so far to the left compared to factory ammo? I understand the concept of all bullets are going to fire differently, but the whole "one foot off" is bugging me now. I can understand a couple inches off of factory but not a foot. Also since I adjusted my optics for reloads, can I go back to shooting factory ammo or will I have the same problem as I do now? I just want to learn as much as I can about reloading. Thanks for any advice.

February 25, 2014, 10:58 PM	#10
savagest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 110	how long is the barrel?

February 25, 2014, 11:00 PM	#12
savagest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 110	and also, it doesn't look like you are shooting very well even with factory ammo. what is the distance here? are you shooting standing up, off a bi pod, are you using sandbags?

February 26, 2014, 11:22 AM	#13
bailey91945 Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2014 Posts: 5	24 inch barrel, was shooting at 200 yards, off of a table and bags. The factory ammo shots were kind of rushed. I shot them between the reload shots and was getting pretty frustrated. I have about 20 rounds loaded with mag primers and BLC-2 powder so I am going to try them on Sunday. I did lighten the powder with these rounds just to be safe.

February 26, 2014, 11:31 AM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	A foot left at 200? I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Like I said, everything about the load is different than the factory loads. I changed nothing but powder in my .204 and shot about 4" left at 100. Adjust your sights and be happy. No, you probably won't ever be able to shoot factory ammo to the same aim point. You're a reloader now, why would you care? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 26, 2014, 12:05 PM	#15
Stavman11 Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Posts: 26	Different weight and powder will change yer point of impact Considerably... I only shoot .223 in rifle.. 50gr V-max with h335 powder is WAY different POI than a 55gr V-max with same powder... with my FMJ-BT , at 100yds, they shoot 3-4" left and 3" high versus my V-Max and Dogtown HP's Just the way of the world... and part of the learning in Loading Ammo so Sight yer rifle in for the re-loads and youll be dialed...

February 26, 2014, 12:51 PM	#16
savagest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 110	Yeah not bad. I would bring all testing to 100 yards and go from there.

February 26, 2014, 02:22 PM	#17
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I agree with Brian Think of your barrel as a tuning fork, it can be anywhere in a 360 degree circle at the point of bullet release, anything you change can and will change the release point of the bullet when it leaves the barrel. What your trying to do and your complicating the heck out of it is look for small groups and adjust the cross hairs to intersect where the bullet is actually hitting! William

February 26, 2014, 02:30 PM	#18
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Similar to what Mr. Watts posted; different powders/powder charges/primers/bullets/etc., will set up different barrel harmonics/vibrations. Depending on when the bullet leaves the muzzle during an oscillation, the POI will move. 12" @ 200, 6" at 100? I'd just adjust my scope... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 26, 2014, 05:25 PM	#19
savagest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 110	Look up barrel flexing on youtube for a demo. I would post a link but i get in trouble when i do. Lol