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Old August 27, 2009, 01:08 PM   #1
muradsay
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neck-sizing problem....

I have a Rem. 700 that was re-barreled (by a very good gunsmith) with a Shilen barrel to .25-06. After getting it back I fired several boxes of factory rounds, and then reloaded them using an RCBS neck-sizing die. I have always preferred neck-sizing, but have used full-length dies and just backed them out a small amount.

Now, I find that it is hard to close the bolt on them and it seems as if the shoulder dimension is too long. Since they are once-fired in the same rifle I find this mysterious. Factory rounds still chamber just fine.

Any help in solving this would be much appreciated. FYI: I have been re-loading since the 1960s, for rifle, pistol and shotgun. Is there something obvious that I am missing?

Murad, in Maine
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Old August 27, 2009, 01:28 PM   #2
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I have a Model 700 in .270 Win that is the same way when I neck resize. I think that the dimensions for the fit are so close between the chamber and the brass (identical?) that it takes the extra force to close the bolt. I was told once that if the chamber is just the slightest bit out of round and the brass is not aligned exactly as it was when it was previously fired, the fit will be more difficult. I never bothered with that and have been living with it for years when shooting paper and prairie dogs. I usually bump the shoulder back after 3 firings or so since it seems to get progressively tighter the more the brass is neck sized. For big game hunting, I always full length resize for easier chambering of a new cartridge.
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Old August 27, 2009, 02:30 PM   #3
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Neck sizing

Probably not the case with new dies, but I had friend who refused to occasionally clean the expander ball or use any lube on the inside of neck and was actually deforming the shoulders of 222 cases due to the excessive friction when the expander ball was pulled back through the neck. If it's taking a good of effort to pull out the expander ball, you might want to try giving it a good cleaning as well as being certain you place a very small amount of lube on the inside of the case necks.

I always neck size and have never experienced the problem rocklock spoke of but it is possible I suppose as many times neck sized cartridges can only be chambered in the gun in which they were fired due to small differences in chamber dimensions.

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Old August 27, 2009, 09:29 PM   #4
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Hi muradsay,

You may actually have two problems occurring simultaneously. The first is that your load is a bit stiff for neck sizing. Neck sizing cases can be reliable only if the load is not 'hot'. The second problem is the neck sizing operation. Are you lubricating the inside of the necks with a quality dry lubricant? If not, you are then pulling the shoulder which is decreasing the headspace of the case.

You will be able to troubleshoot your problem with a good case gauge such as a RCBS Case Gauge or a Stoney Point.
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Old August 28, 2009, 05:05 AM   #5
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Does a RCBS neck sizing die use an expander ball, or does it just squeeze the neck in from the outside?

Paint a neck-sized piece of brass with a magic marker. Then try to chamber it and see where the interference is.

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Old August 28, 2009, 06:42 AM   #6
rogn
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neck sizing

Nomex suit donned; just get a Lee collet neck sizer, follow directions carefully and enjoy some of the most accurate ammo you can produce,,,and the easiest. Conventional dies w/expandr balls are a primitive inexact means of neck sizing. Used correctly as FLS they are fine if you lube necks , otherwise go with the Lee
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Old August 28, 2009, 09:08 AM   #7
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You need to find out what is rubbing. Is it the neck or is it the shoulder. If it is the shoulder that is good just load them light and fire form the brass. Sounds as if your not bumping the shoulder back enough. It could be that your brass is to long and that is hitting the throat and causing the hard to close bolt. If that is the case then just trim your brass.

I like the idea of making your brass with a sharpie or just use a candle and smoke a loaded cartridge. chamber it and see where it is rubbing.
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Old August 28, 2009, 09:08 AM   #8
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+1 on the Lee collet neck sizer.
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Old August 28, 2009, 10:45 AM   #9
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I also found once that it was niether the case neck or the should that was causing a stiff chambering in brass that I thought was otherwise just fine -- turned out to be that my bullets were seated out a bit too far and that was the cause of my resistance. It had nothing to do with the brass, even though that was what I suspected.

Have you tried chambering just a piece of neck-only sized brass with no bullet, to see if you are experiencing the hard chambering?
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Old August 28, 2009, 02:23 PM   #10
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I have similar stiff chambering issues when neck sizing compared to factory ammo. I have always felt it was normal, because I was told to expect it when I first started neck sizing my brass. Think about it: you fireform the brass to fit the chamber exactly, so the cartridge has no slop when it is chambered, si it fits the chamber tightly. That's what you are trying to accomplish by neck sizing. So now the bolt closes snugly against the cartridge head instead of closing loosely on a cartridge that is undersized.
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Old August 28, 2009, 06:47 PM   #11
bustoff
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Quote:
Now, I find that it is hard to close the bolt on them and it seems as if the shoulder dimension is too long.
the long shoulder dimension may be the key. the dimensions your dies were cut to may be smaller than your chamber in the area just below the shoulder, when you size the neck the die is also sizing the case body a little and the first thing that it does when the sidewalls of the cartridge are sized is to squeeze the shoulder forward a little. the same thing happens when FL sizing except the shoulder gets pushed back to the proper place when sizing is completed. a easy check is to smoke the case with a candle and size the cartridge, then look at the sized case and any contact between the case and die will remove the soot. if it shows contact just below the shoulder thats probably your problem. to fix it, if you have access to another set of dies try them. I ended up polishing that area on my dies till there was no more interference in that area. havent had a problem since. good luck.
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Old August 28, 2009, 09:39 PM   #12
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Have you tried cambering a "neck" sized round without the bullet seated. If not, do so. If it does not chamber then you know your problem is with the sizing process. If it does chamber then you know that the problem lies in the seating operation.
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Old August 29, 2009, 12:13 PM   #13
muradsay
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I appreciate all of you taking the time to offer your expertise. I am pretty sure that the bullets are seated deeply enough, simply because I have gauged them for the nominal overall cartridge length as stated in the Hornady manual...but, I will try a neck-sized case w/o bullet just in case I am wrong.

I hear what is being said about neck-sized cases fitting the chamber snugly...which is indeed the point of neck-sizing, along with trying to not work the brass as much as full-length sizing does. I have machinist's lay-out dye and will see what that reveals in terms of interference.

But, it also sounds like the Lee collet-die might be worth the cost.

I don't believe it is the expander that is causing problems, because I did lube the inside of the case necks and the bullets are seating nicely. It isn't overall case length because these cases are once-fired factory loads (Remington), and I ran a few with my digital calipers. But, it is definitely something beyond merely 'snug' fit, because I really have to hause on the bolt to get it closed.

thanks again

Murad, in Maine
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