I'm so angry at S&W, are there firearm lemon laws? - Page 3

chuck jones · July 14, 2019, 03:22 PM

I only buy S&W revolvers made before the extra hole and parts

TailGator · July 15, 2019, 09:13 AM

Quote:

I really wish that i could inspect that myself to see if there is any roughness that can be physically detected, or are those lines nothing but an illusion of roughness?

There is this in the OP:

Quote:

I go to clean it and realize that something is still off. First of all, when I pass a brass brush through the barrel it sounds like zipping a zipper.

If it's an optical illusion, it's one that makes noise.

Carmady · July 15, 2019, 10:47 AM

Quote:

If it's an optical illusion, it's one that makes noise.

Like an audible illusion.

Lohman446 · July 19, 2019, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Like an audible illusion.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

TailGator · July 19, 2019, 11:02 AM

You guys are quacking me up.

(Yes, it's bad, but someone was bound to do it.)

buck460XVR · July 19, 2019, 03:58 PM

Haven't heard anything from the OP in 9 days as to iffin he has contacted S&W and iffin he has, what their response was. Curious as all get out to what really is going on with his barrel..........

shurshot · July 20, 2019, 04:40 AM

In 1974, my grandfather purchased a brand new S&W 39-2 9mm. First magazine or two resulted in a couple stove pipes with Remington 124 grain hardball. He shipped it back to S&W, who in turn polished the ramp and test fired it until it ran as smoothly as butter. He got his pistol back within 2 weeks. It is now mine and still functioning as designed, original springs, magazines, etc. I'm pretty sure even if there was an internet back in 1974, my Grandfather wouldn't have broadcasted any criticism towards S&W on social media, only praise.

My point is, S&W turns out a boatload of guns every year. Like any large reputable company (Colt firearms, Ford, Chevy, Bear Archery, etc.), given the tremendously high volume of products being manufactured, there will always be an occassional imperfect item that slips by Quality Control, hence their Warranty and repair Departments. The OP's weapon is unacceptable and should be returned for repair / replacement... repeatedly if necessary.

SATRP · July 20, 2019, 08:03 AM

Arguably the most oft repeated myth of revolver aficionados is that their holy grail of handguns, the revolver, is more reliable than a semi. A good quality semi will whip a good quality revolver in reliability testing. A semi is of simplistic design with few moving parts. A double-action revolver is of complex design with many moving parts, all of which have to work perfectly for a revolver to function as intended.

SATRP · July 20, 2019, 08:07 AM

On topic, like Remington, it's sad what has happened to an icon of American gun making. Prior to its sale to a British outfit in the early 80's, S&W represented the best of American craftsmanship.

buck460XVR · July 20, 2019, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATRP

Arguably the most oft repeated myth of revolver aficionados is that their holy grail of handguns, the revolver, is more reliable than a semi. A good quality semi will whip a good quality revolver in reliability testing. A semi is of simplistic design with few moving parts. A double-action revolver is of complex design with many moving parts, all of which have to work perfectly for a revolver to function as intended.

While the arguments for which is more reliable is as many and as highly discussed as "Which gun for bear?", the problem with the firearm in this thread is the barrel. Which IMHO, is relatively the same in either a revolver or semi-auto.

So......what's your point, other than your holy grail of handguns, is a semi?

osbornk · July 20, 2019, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATRP

Arguably the most oft repeated myth of revolver aficionados is that their holy grail of handguns, the revolver, is more reliable than a semi. A good quality semi will whip a good quality revolver in reliability testing. A semi is of simplistic design with few moving parts. A double-action revolver is of complex design with many moving parts, all of which have to work perfectly for a revolver to function as intended.

I think the myth that a revolver is more reliable than a semi-automated is because a dirty semi-auto is more prone to failure than a dirty revolver. Also, revolvers are more forgiving when the ammo is marginal in quality. I have six semi-automatics and I trust myself to disassemble and reassemble them (I don't get into the triggers) but I don't get into my five revolvers other than changing the cylinders and cleaning what I can reach. I'm afraid of messing with revolvers and messing up the timing. I think a typical semi-automatic is simpler than a typical double action revolver.

Japle · July 20, 2019, 10:09 AM

Several years ago, I bought a 686SSR through my LGS. When it came in, there was a slight problem. The cylinder had six chambers, but 7 flutes, one of which was directly over one of the chambers.
I posted photos on every firearms forum I could find and my post was copied to many forums I’d never heard of. S&W was not happy about me sharing their monumental screw-up and agreed to replace the very dangerous cylinder with an unfluted one.
I advise you to post your problem on all the firearms sites and see what Smith’s reaction is.

https://www.irista.com/gallery/twu5uafwbzwn

**44 AMP** · July 20, 2019, 01:39 PM

Discussing Revolver vs Semi (anything) is off topic in this thread. If you want to do that, you are welcome to start a thread for it.

The OP got a bad gun, and is trying to get the maker to repair/replace it. Experiences with that make & model gun and with S&W customer service are on topic, lets try and focus on those.

If I'm reading the OP correctly, the gun has been sent back twice, already.
Who paid for that??

Since there was no gripe about the cost, I'll assume it was S&W.

Wait time it wait time, and while its important to each of us individually, to S&W, its just another customer, and expecting to go to the front of the line, just because you don't want to wait is unrealistic. Aggravating, yes but unless you can convince S&W why your gun needs to be fixed before everyone else's, then you have to wait like everyone else.

Mike38 · July 20, 2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

My point is, S&W turns out a boatload of guns every year. Like any large reputable company (Colt firearms, Ford, Chevy, Bear Archery, etc.), given the tremendously high volume of products being manufactured, there will always be an occassional imperfect item that slips by Quality Control, hence their Warranty and repair Departments.

Very true, guns are made by humans, and humans are fallible. But, didn't the OP write that he has returned this same handgun 3 times? If you can't get something right the first time, that's ok, we all make mistakes, fix it and say you're sorry. If you can't get it right the second time, you need serious training. If you can't get it right the third time, you're in the wrong line of work. Obviously, someone at S&W is in the wrong line of work.

Driftwood Johnson · July 20, 2019, 05:51 PM

Quote:

The cylinder had six chambers, but 7 flutes, one of which was directly over one of the chambers.

I toured the Smith and Wesson factory a number of years ago. There was a CNC station dedicated to cutting the flutes into cylinders after the chambers had been bored. There was an example sitting there of a 22 cylinder with the wrong amount of flutes. I don't remember now exactly how many chambers were in that cylinder, but clearly somebody had popped the wrong program into the machine and it started cutting too many flutes onto the cylinders. One flute was directly over one of the chambers. I seem to recall a whole bunch of cylinders were cut this way before somebody caught the error.

I think they left the bad cylinder there to remind the operators to put in the correct program for each cylinder.

Carmady · July 20, 2019, 06:22 PM

^^^ And they stash it away when the insurance company comes to visit.

wbblazer · July 22, 2019, 02:23 PM

I'd like to see how SW handles this.

steve_kyle · July 22, 2019, 09:43 PM

I've owned a few Smiths... one being a "Performance Center" that I got in a trade. Was not impressed with it at all. Seemed like just some flashy extras for much more cash. Since selling that one, I've stayed clear of S&W. I prefer Rugers, for quality and customer service. No, there's not a perfect company, but at least Ruger takes care of their customers.

DirtyHarold · July 26, 2019, 05:59 PM

Yesterday I got a call telling me that I will be getting a replacement. I'm glad Smith is finally doing the right thing. Just hoping that this one is a good one.

Ricklin · July 26, 2019, 07:09 PM

I will fall off my virtual bar stool if you receive anything but excellence from them for your new 460.
Please update the thread and let us know.

DirtyHarold · July 26, 2019, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricklin

I will fall off my virtual bar stool if you receive anything but excellence from them for your new 460.

Please update the thread and let us know.

Absolutely will do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

buck460XVR · July 27, 2019, 09:14 AM

Apparently S&W has their own "LEMON LAW". I too believe the one they send will meet with your satisfaction. I know it's easy to get frustrated and the internet and social media is a great way to vent it. Sometimes tho, patience still is a virtue.

DirtyHarold · July 27, 2019, 11:08 AM

I think S&W is doing the right thing, I certainly don think they did this to me on purpose. My patience did begin to run thin however after 5 months and 3 trips back to the homeland.

**44 AMP** · July 28, 2019, 01:53 PM

It is possible the gun you get will not be the same gun you sent in. It could be entirely new, and have the serial # of the gun you sent in. S&W can legally do this, and often does when repeated repair attempts just don't get all the bugs out.

It could also be a complete rebuild of your frame, but if they say "new gun" it will be a new gun. Check and see if its not the same serial # as the one you had, I'm guessing it will be.

let us know how it works out.

dahermit · July 28, 2019, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

It is possible the gun you get will not be the same gun you sent in. It could be entirely new, and have the serial # of the gun you sent in. S&W can legally do this, and often does when repeated repair attempts just don't get all the bugs out.

It could also be a complete rebuild of your frame, but if they say "new gun" it will be a new gun. Check and see if its not the same serial # as the one you had, I'm guessing it will be.

let us know how it works out.

Just curious...how is a frame rebuilt?

July 20, 2019, 04:40 AM	#57
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	In 1974, my grandfather purchased a brand new S&W 39-2 9mm. First magazine or two resulted in a couple stove pipes with Remington 124 grain hardball. He shipped it back to S&W, who in turn polished the ramp and test fired it until it ran as smoothly as butter. He got his pistol back within 2 weeks. It is now mine and still functioning as designed, original springs, magazines, etc. I'm pretty sure even if there was an internet back in 1974, my Grandfather wouldn't have broadcasted any criticism towards S&W on social media, only praise. My point is, S&W turns out a boatload of guns every year. Like any large reputable company (Colt firearms, Ford, Chevy, Bear Archery, etc.), given the tremendously high volume of products being manufactured, there will always be an occassional imperfect item that slips by Quality Control, hence their Warranty and repair Departments. The OP's weapon is unacceptable and should be returned for repair / replacement... repeatedly if necessary. Last edited by shurshot; July 20, 2019 at 04:54 AM.

July 20, 2019, 01:39 PM	#63
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Discussing Revolver vs Semi (anything) is off topic in this thread. If you want to do that, you are welcome to start a thread for it. The OP got a bad gun, and is trying to get the maker to repair/replace it. Experiences with that make & model gun and with S&W customer service are on topic, lets try and focus on those. If I'm reading the OP correctly, the gun has been sent back twice, already. Who paid for that?? Since there was no gripe about the cost, I'll assume it was S&W. Wait time it wait time, and while its important to each of us individually, to S&W, its just another customer, and expecting to go to the front of the line, just because you don't want to wait is unrealistic. Aggravating, yes but unless you can convince S&W why your gun needs to be fixed before everyone else's, then you have to wait like everyone else. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 26, 2019, 07:09 PM	#70
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	I do believe I will fall off my virtual bar stool if you receive anything but excellence from them for your new 460. Please update the thread and let us know. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

July 28, 2019, 01:53 PM	#74
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	It is possible the gun you get will not be the same gun you sent in. It could be entirely new, and have the serial # of the gun you sent in. S&W can legally do this, and often does when repeated repair attempts just don't get all the bugs out. It could also be a complete rebuild of your frame, but if they say "new gun" it will be a new gun. Check and see if its not the same serial # as the one you had, I'm guessing it will be. let us know how it works out. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 14, 2019, 03:22 PM	#51
chuck jones Member Join Date: July 9, 2011 Posts: 16	I only buy S&W revolvers made before the extra hole and parts

July 19, 2019, 11:02 AM	#55
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	You guys are quacking me up. (Yes, it's bad, but someone was bound to do it.)

July 19, 2019, 03:58 PM	#56
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Haven't heard anything from the OP in 9 days as to iffin he has contacted S&W and iffin he has, what their response was. Curious as all get out to what really is going on with his barrel..........

July 20, 2019, 08:03 AM	#58
SATRP Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2019 Posts: 108	Arguably the most oft repeated myth of revolver aficionados is that their holy grail of handguns, the revolver, is more reliable than a semi. A good quality semi will whip a good quality revolver in reliability testing. A semi is of simplistic design with few moving parts. A double-action revolver is of complex design with many moving parts, all of which have to work perfectly for a revolver to function as intended.

July 20, 2019, 08:07 AM	#59
SATRP Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2019 Posts: 108	On topic, like Remington, it's sad what has happened to an icon of American gun making. Prior to its sale to a British outfit in the early 80's, S&W represented the best of American craftsmanship.

July 20, 2019, 10:09 AM	#62
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Several years ago, I bought a 686SSR through my LGS. When it came in, there was a slight problem. The cylinder had six chambers, but 7 flutes, one of which was directly over one of the chambers. I posted photos on every firearms forum I could find and my post was copied to many forums I’d never heard of. S&W was not happy about me sharing their monumental screw-up and agreed to replace the very dangerous cylinder with an unfluted one. I advise you to post your problem on all the firearms sites and see what Smith’s reaction is. https://www.irista.com/gallery/twu5uafwbzwn

July 20, 2019, 06:22 PM	#66
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	^^^ And they stash it away when the insurance company comes to visit.

July 22, 2019, 02:23 PM	#67
wbblazer Member Join Date: August 1, 2016 Posts: 25	I'd like to see how SW handles this.

July 22, 2019, 09:43 PM	#68
steve_kyle Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2019 Posts: 4	I've owned a few Smiths... one being a "Performance Center" that I got in a trade. Was not impressed with it at all. Seemed like just some flashy extras for much more cash. Since selling that one, I've stayed clear of S&W. I prefer Rugers, for quality and customer service. No, there's not a perfect company, but at least Ruger takes care of their customers.

July 26, 2019, 05:59 PM	#69
DirtyHarold Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2015 Posts: 158	Yesterday I got a call telling me that I will be getting a replacement. I'm glad Smith is finally doing the right thing. Just hoping that this one is a good one.

July 27, 2019, 09:14 AM	#72
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Apparently S&W has their own "LEMON LAW". I too believe the one they send will meet with your satisfaction. I know it's easy to get frustrated and the internet and social media is a great way to vent it. Sometimes tho, patience still is a virtue.

July 27, 2019, 11:08 AM	#73
DirtyHarold Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2015 Posts: 158	I think S&W is doing the right thing, I certainly don think they did this to me on purpose. My patience did begin to run thin however after 5 months and 3 trips back to the homeland.