2ffg or 3ffg - Page 2

rodwhaincamo · October 9, 2017, 09:35 PM

Looking over Lyman's data for standard Goex using 80 grns (a typical average hunting charge in a 24" barrel for a .50 cal) we get (25 yd increments), zeroed at 100 yds and excluded 0:

2F
1538 fps and 930 ft/lbs at the muzzle
1.7" 2.9" 2.4" 0.0" -4.7" with 326 ft/lbs at 125 yds

3F
1631 fps and 1046 ft/lbs at the muzzle
1.5" 2.6" 2.2" 0.0" -4.3" with 342 ft/lbs at 125 yds

Not a spectacular difference. But I've used a 70 grn charge of 3F T7 and Olde E which give close to 1825 fps at the muzzle with less powder.

1825 fps and 1309 ft/lbs a themuzzle
1.1" 2.0" 1.8" 0.0" -1.8" with 378 ft/lbs at 125 yds

Beyond about 75 yds they've all lost most of their steam and won't expand much, if at all. The energy figures out at 125 yds aren't even much to talk about either. The trajectory difference between standard Goex 2F vs 3F isn't a big deal but it becomes bigger comparing a more energetic powder vs one that's not. And maybe I should have compared 70 grns across the board to be more fair.

rodwhaincamo · October 9, 2017, 09:40 PM

@zipspyder: If you are using your sidearm for hunting I'd beg you to compare standard Goex to something more powerful. Mike Beliveau has great videos, one of which he compares standard Goex to Triple 7 (with 15% reduced loads) and various projectiles. Despite the powder reduction, which isn't necessary, he gets a much greater performance. And T7 compares closely to what Olde Eynsford (by Goex) and Swiss produce.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

Compression also isn't quite the bad thing he talks about either. This very slight compression is dealing with loading brass cartridges and not for any other use. And the 15% reduction isn't due to being too powerful and making it dangerous but to get close to the velocity of a weak powder such as Goex. However as you see even this reduction still well outpaces standard Goex.

Hawg · October 9, 2017, 10:34 PM

Handgun hunting isn't legal here. When I did use a .50 I used 90 grains with a round ball. Now I use a .54 with 90 grains and a round ball with either Swiss or Pyrodex whichever one I have at the time.

rebs · October 10, 2017, 07:14 AM

would it be correct to say 3f works better in a short barrel than 2f ?

zipspyder · October 10, 2017, 08:19 AM

Quote:

@zipspyder: If you are using your sidearm for hunting I'd beg you to compare standard Goex to something more powerful. Mike Beliveau has great videos, one of which he compares standard Goex to Triple 7 (with 15% reduced loads) and various projectiles. Despite the powder reduction, which isn't necessary, he gets a much greater performance. And T7 compares closely to what Olde Eynsford (by Goex) and Swiss produce.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

Compression also isn't quite the bad thing he talks about either. This very slight compression is dealing with loading brass cartridges and not for any other use. And the 15% reduction isn't due to being too powerful and making it dangerous but to get close to the velocity of a weak powder such as Goex. However as you see even this reduction still well outpaces standard Goex.

@Rodw, yeah I don't use my Colt handgun for hunting but if I did it would definitely be be Triple 7 as it gives much better performance than GOEX. And we know BP pistols can use all they can get as long as its safe!

PS: The fact that my Colt has a brass frame doesn't help as well. I feel more comfortable using the full 30 grains regular back powder vs. messing with different quantities of T7 or Pyrodex. Plus my Traditions powder measure/loader has a 30 grain fill spout.

rodwhaincamo · October 10, 2017, 01:13 PM

Revolvers aren't legal for game animals during the primitive season as a primary means but can certainly be kept as a sidearm. However non game animals such as hogs or the various exotics are not an issue, and that revolver can be used during the other hunting season time frames.

zipspyder · October 10, 2017, 01:20 PM

It would have to be red squirrels, ground hogs, etc...in my neck of the woods. Up here in Wisconistan we don't have any hogs.

Hawg · October 10, 2017, 02:56 PM

Quote:

PS: The fact that my Colt has a brass frame doesn't help as well. I feel more comfortable using the full 30 grains regular back powder vs. messing with different quantities of T7 or Pyrodex. Plus my Traditions powder measure/loader has a 30 grain fill spout.

It wont last long shooting loads like that.

zipspyder · October 10, 2017, 02:59 PM

Quote:

It wont last long shooting loads like that.

@Hawg - I've had it since the 80's. How long do I have to wait?

Hawg · October 10, 2017, 05:39 PM

Quote:

@Hawg - I've had it since the 80's. How long do I have to wait?

Lucky you. I beat up the recoil shield of a .36 Remington with just a few cylinders of 25 grains.

rebs · October 11, 2017, 06:59 AM

would it be correct to say 3f works better in a short barrel than 2f ?

rodwhaincamo · October 11, 2017, 07:38 AM

It certainly burns quicker. And on very small arms 4F is often used.

October 9, 2017, 09:35 PM	#26
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Looking over Lyman's data for standard Goex using 80 grns (a typical average hunting charge in a 24" barrel for a .50 cal) we get (25 yd increments), zeroed at 100 yds and excluded 0: 2F 1538 fps and 930 ft/lbs at the muzzle 1.7" 2.9" 2.4" 0.0" -4.7" with 326 ft/lbs at 125 yds 3F 1631 fps and 1046 ft/lbs at the muzzle 1.5" 2.6" 2.2" 0.0" -4.3" with 342 ft/lbs at 125 yds Not a spectacular difference. But I've used a 70 grn charge of 3F T7 and Olde E which give close to 1825 fps at the muzzle with less powder. 1825 fps and 1309 ft/lbs a themuzzle 1.1" 2.0" 1.8" 0.0" -1.8" with 378 ft/lbs at 125 yds Beyond about 75 yds they've all lost most of their steam and won't expand much, if at all. The energy figures out at 125 yds aren't even much to talk about either. The trajectory difference between standard Goex 2F vs 3F isn't a big deal but it becomes bigger comparing a more energetic powder vs one that's not. And maybe I should have compared 70 grns across the board to be more fair.

October 9, 2017, 09:40 PM	#27
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	@zipspyder: If you are using your sidearm for hunting I'd beg you to compare standard Goex to something more powerful. Mike Beliveau has great videos, one of which he compares standard Goex to Triple 7 (with 15% reduced loads) and various projectiles. Despite the powder reduction, which isn't necessary, he gets a much greater performance. And T7 compares closely to what Olde Eynsford (by Goex) and Swiss produce. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA Compression also isn't quite the bad thing he talks about either. This very slight compression is dealing with loading brass cartridges and not for any other use. And the 15% reduction isn't due to being too powerful and making it dangerous but to get close to the velocity of a weak powder such as Goex. However as you see even this reduction still well outpaces standard Goex.

October 9, 2017, 10:34 PM	#28
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Handgun hunting isn't legal here. When I did use a .50 I used 90 grains with a round ball. Now I use a .54 with 90 grains and a round ball with either Swiss or Pyrodex whichever one I have at the time.

October 10, 2017, 07:14 AM	#29
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	would it be correct to say 3f works better in a short barrel than 2f ?

October 10, 2017, 01:13 PM	#31
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Revolvers aren't legal for game animals during the primitive season as a primary means but can certainly be kept as a sidearm. However non game animals such as hogs or the various exotics are not an issue, and that revolver can be used during the other hunting season time frames.

October 10, 2017, 01:20 PM	#32
zipspyder Junior member Join Date: June 13, 2017 Posts: 429	It would have to be red squirrels, ground hogs, etc...in my neck of the woods. Up here in Wisconistan we don't have any hogs.

October 11, 2017, 06:59 AM	#36
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	would it be correct to say 3f works better in a short barrel than 2f ?

October 11, 2017, 07:38 AM	#37
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	It certainly burns quicker. And on very small arms 4F is often used.