Original finish on Colt percussion grips?

Model12Win · January 19, 2015, 02:54 PM

Hello everyone!

I am very much interested in cap and ball revolvers, and know there are some good companies out there making them. I own a Cimarron/Uberti 1851 Colt Navy, here it is:

I love this gun, but one thing has been bothering me. Do you see those shiny, red Italian grips? Did the original Colt Navy grips actually look like that, and were they finished in the same way? If not, then in fact how did they look and what materials were they made from/finished with?

If at all possible, I am going to try and make the grips look more authentic. I have read of some refinishing the Uberti wood furniture on various long guns, but I haven't found much on the Colt style revolvers or what would be the correct way to go about doing this.

I am not a cowboy action shooter, so for me authenticity is paramount short of buying a real $50,000 Colt Navy! So if anyone out there can help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it. I also plan to buy an Uberti 1847 Walker at some point in the future, and would appreciate information on it's original grip finish as well if anyone has that.

Thank you so much for your time, and have a great day everyone!

Bishop Creek · January 19, 2015, 03:42 PM

From the few original percussion Colts that I have seen in person and looking at photos of well preserved original Colts in books and on the internet, I would say yes, the grips looked a lot like that.

DoubleDeuce 1 · January 19, 2015, 05:13 PM

I have some Colts and some Italian copies. I never really give it much thought, but the more the grips are handled, the more they wear. It kind of sneaks up on you. Gives it character. One of my Italian jobs has almost no finish left on it. The revolver was produced about 1960 or so. Needless to say, it has seen a lot of handling. The dings and wear give it a huge amount of character. The gun has never been abused, just used. Is that what you are looking for?

bedbugbilly · January 19, 2015, 05:27 PM

There was a privately published book not he 1851 - I'm sorry I can't remember the name of it but maybe some one can come up with it. It was written by a WWII vet who grew up knowing many Civil War vets and in particular, his interest was in the 1851 Navy. If my memory serves me correctly . . in that book he discusses the finish of Colt grips. They were dyed with a red dye - very close to the type of red ink used in documents of that period and somewhat of a "Colt secret".

You have to remember that what you see on many original Colts today have had over a century of "aging". In the case of a 1851 Navy original - if produced say in 1860 - it would have 155 years worth of aging on it. Over the years, ultra violet light can have a great effect on wood, whether it be bare, clear finished or stained and clear finished. As a result, the "shade" of an original grip, even in pristine condition, can be very different that what it looked like originally.

Like a lot of folks, I have "aged" a number of revolvers but primarily because I like 'em that way. But, I really don't think a person can age a revolver 100% and get it to look like an original. Today, many folks don't like "shiny" wood but back when these were being produced, a shiny finish was often used on various woods. I'm not sure just what "sealer" Colt used - oil varnish had been around for centuries as a finish on violins and other wood products. Shellac, produced from beetles was also around. Lacquers were certainly being used as it was a finish widely used in the carriage building industry.

One thing to remember also is that various wood species, and even different pieces of wood in the same species, will accept finish differently. This also applies to any stain utilized. The Colt grips were produced from many different trees and thus, the stain/sealer on one set of grips might very well look differently on another set of grips. Straight grain walnut is going to accept stain differently from walnut with an irregular or burl grain. I owned and operated a custom cabinet and millwork shop for a number of years. In the cabinet industry, many different lacquers are used (sprayed) as a sealer/top coat. But, since different pieces of wood in the same species accept stain differently, a "toner" is used. Think of a "toner" as a spray stain - using it you can blend the color so it is even on all pieces of wood (oak, ash, cherry, etc.) so that it is all the same shade.

Over the years, I have seen many Colts such as the '51, '61 Navies and '60 Army - in all conditions from "mint" to "basket cases". On many, the finish is certainly worn on the grips but the evidence of the "red stain" is still there. On those in worse condition, the sealer is often worn off. Like anything else, if the finish is worn off down to the bare wood, whatever stain shade was originally present is going to be much different - guns get cleaned, oil gets put on to prevent rust and it goes on the wood as well. Worn walnut, oiled over time is certainly going to age to a dark brownish shade.

Final comment - today, many people associate "shiny finish" - such as on those grips you show - as a sign of "cheap" and especially the reddish color. The original finish was a "utility" finish as a handgun was considered a "utility tool" - protection, putting food on the table, etc. Today, we view them much differently - nostalgic and by what "we like" - not necessarily what was on the originals. In studying "trade guns" (I'm talking early trade guns - French Fusil de Chasse, Northwest, etc.) I have run across a number of references of how some were "finished" by dipping in a sealer (whatever they used at the time) - the entire gun - stock and metal - because some Indians liked the shiny finish.

In the end - it all boils down to "taste" in regards to a person's personal handgun. If the red and shiny bother you - it's your gun. Make it look the way you'd like it to. You are the one who is going to be enjoying it and don't worry what someone else thinks about it. Most folks don't have a clue anyway. I recently purchased a Uberti Bisley - same type of finish on the grips and personally, that's going to change sometime in the future as I don't care for it myself. I've always shot '51s and have owned quite a few - right now, I have an Uberti. That one got "aged" and is now "browned" - the grips were stripped and on the outside grip there is a Masonic "square and compass" carved in.

Enjoy and have fun!

Model12Win · January 19, 2015, 05:36 PM

Thanks! I really can find no info on the original finish and would like to immitate that if possible.

kwhi43 · January 19, 2015, 07:04 PM

I did this with bleach and vinegar

Model12Win · January 19, 2015, 10:14 PM

That looks good, but I am wondering what they looked like back when they were new.

maillemaker · January 20, 2015, 10:13 AM

Try a Google Image Search on "Original Colt 1860 Army Revolver". You can see many examples of originals. Of course they are 150 years old and the wood tends to darken over time.

Still, there are some pretty pristine examples on the web. Here is one:

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/co.../#.VL5wGC5jcoM

I found the above on this page which is full of them:

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-1860-army/

Steve

James K · January 20, 2015, 06:28 PM

The gun in Maillemaker's first link is righteous and about as nice a one as I have seen in a while. The first gun in his second link is good, but not as nice and has seen more use. The second gun is not very good and the grip look like they were worked on at some tme.

Look at those grips and you will understand what I meant about the wood being more open than that on the repros. No matter what is done with those European walnut grips, they won't look right.

Jim

Model12Win · January 20, 2015, 06:49 PM

Thanks Jim,

Does anyone know of anybody who makes and fits grips to the Walkers? A modern maker who makes them like they used to, from American walnut? I would like to send my future Walker off to get new authentic grips made and fitted if that's what it takes. This might be a little overkill, but I am dead set on getting authentic looking grips for the gun. I don't understand why the Italians don't make them look how they actually did... why the ugly red coating?

I know very few care about how these guns actually looked, but for some reason I do. I'm not a cowboy action shooter, but I am a history buff and these old guns intrigue me greatly. I will do whatever it takes to get the most authentic Colt Walker I possibly can, short of buying a real one!

BirchOrr · January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM

Eagle grip out of Chicago.

ZVP · January 24, 2015, 12:45 PM

Model 12 ?
is that a Case Yellow Sodbuster or a copy?
For years I have carried a Sodbuster Jr. with no regrets. It's the perfect pocketknife! Smooth, no sharp corners or edges to wear pockets and it holds a super edge!
The blades on Sodbusters close securily, almost like a lock. They rarely close on the user. Don't know how they do it.
The full size Sodbuster is an inch longer everywhere and it's a little large for pocket carry, The Blsde is the perfect length though.
I read that Colt used a plain oil stain on their grips.
I really like the smooth top grade finish Uberti uses, it allows the revolver to be shifted during holding and shooting it.
I think it's some sort of Urethane varnish???
I usually just accept the plain cheapo Oil finish that Piettia uses, it's OK for GP uses and looks good too.
ZVP

Texas Reb · January 24, 2015, 04:21 PM

Yep, I like the Sodbuster Jr. too! it's a great little carry knife. I have an old mint condition Sodbuster from 1983. It's sets on my shelf. I bought cause I always wanted one when I was younger. I have a can full of old knives. Knives are one of my passions

January 19, 2015, 02:54 PM	#1
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Original finish on Colt percussion grips? Hello everyone! I am very much interested in cap and ball revolvers, and know there are some good companies out there making them. I own a Cimarron/Uberti 1851 Colt Navy, here it is: I love this gun, but one thing has been bothering me. Do you see those shiny, red Italian grips? Did the original Colt Navy grips actually look like that, and were they finished in the same way? If not, then in fact how did they look and what materials were they made from/finished with? If at all possible, I am going to try and make the grips look more authentic. I have read of some refinishing the Uberti wood furniture on various long guns, but I haven't found much on the Colt style revolvers or what would be the correct way to go about doing this. I am not a cowboy action shooter, so for me authenticity is paramount short of buying a real $50,000 Colt Navy! So if anyone out there can help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it. I also plan to buy an Uberti 1847 Walker at some point in the future, and would appreciate information on it's original grip finish as well if anyone has that. Thank you so much for your time, and have a great day everyone!

January 19, 2015, 03:42 PM	#2
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	From the few original percussion Colts that I have seen in person and looking at photos of well preserved original Colts in books and on the internet, I would say yes, the grips looked a lot like that. Last edited by Bishop Creek; January 19, 2015 at 07:23 PM.

January 19, 2015, 05:27 PM	#4
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	There was a privately published book not he 1851 - I'm sorry I can't remember the name of it but maybe some one can come up with it. It was written by a WWII vet who grew up knowing many Civil War vets and in particular, his interest was in the 1851 Navy. If my memory serves me correctly . . in that book he discusses the finish of Colt grips. They were dyed with a red dye - very close to the type of red ink used in documents of that period and somewhat of a "Colt secret". You have to remember that what you see on many original Colts today have had over a century of "aging". In the case of a 1851 Navy original - if produced say in 1860 - it would have 155 years worth of aging on it. Over the years, ultra violet light can have a great effect on wood, whether it be bare, clear finished or stained and clear finished. As a result, the "shade" of an original grip, even in pristine condition, can be very different that what it looked like originally. Like a lot of folks, I have "aged" a number of revolvers but primarily because I like 'em that way. But, I really don't think a person can age a revolver 100% and get it to look like an original. Today, many folks don't like "shiny" wood but back when these were being produced, a shiny finish was often used on various woods. I'm not sure just what "sealer" Colt used - oil varnish had been around for centuries as a finish on violins and other wood products. Shellac, produced from beetles was also around. Lacquers were certainly being used as it was a finish widely used in the carriage building industry. One thing to remember also is that various wood species, and even different pieces of wood in the same species, will accept finish differently. This also applies to any stain utilized. The Colt grips were produced from many different trees and thus, the stain/sealer on one set of grips might very well look differently on another set of grips. Straight grain walnut is going to accept stain differently from walnut with an irregular or burl grain. I owned and operated a custom cabinet and millwork shop for a number of years. In the cabinet industry, many different lacquers are used (sprayed) as a sealer/top coat. But, since different pieces of wood in the same species accept stain differently, a "toner" is used. Think of a "toner" as a spray stain - using it you can blend the color so it is even on all pieces of wood (oak, ash, cherry, etc.) so that it is all the same shade. Over the years, I have seen many Colts such as the '51, '61 Navies and '60 Army - in all conditions from "mint" to "basket cases". On many, the finish is certainly worn on the grips but the evidence of the "red stain" is still there. On those in worse condition, the sealer is often worn off. Like anything else, if the finish is worn off down to the bare wood, whatever stain shade was originally present is going to be much different - guns get cleaned, oil gets put on to prevent rust and it goes on the wood as well. Worn walnut, oiled over time is certainly going to age to a dark brownish shade. Final comment - today, many people associate "shiny finish" - such as on those grips you show - as a sign of "cheap" and especially the reddish color. The original finish was a "utility" finish as a handgun was considered a "utility tool" - protection, putting food on the table, etc. Today, we view them much differently - nostalgic and by what "we like" - not necessarily what was on the originals. In studying "trade guns" (I'm talking early trade guns - French Fusil de Chasse, Northwest, etc.) I have run across a number of references of how some were "finished" by dipping in a sealer (whatever they used at the time) - the entire gun - stock and metal - because some Indians liked the shiny finish. In the end - it all boils down to "taste" in regards to a person's personal handgun. If the red and shiny bother you - it's your gun. Make it look the way you'd like it to. You are the one who is going to be enjoying it and don't worry what someone else thinks about it. Most folks don't have a clue anyway. I recently purchased a Uberti Bisley - same type of finish on the grips and personally, that's going to change sometime in the future as I don't care for it myself. I've always shot '51s and have owned quite a few - right now, I have an Uberti. That one got "aged" and is now "browned" - the grips were stripped and on the outside grip there is a Masonic "square and compass" carved in. Enjoy and have fun! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

January 20, 2015, 06:49 PM	#10
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Thanks Jim, Does anyone know of anybody who makes and fits grips to the Walkers? A modern maker who makes them like they used to, from American walnut? I would like to send my future Walker off to get new authentic grips made and fitted if that's what it takes. This might be a little overkill, but I am dead set on getting authentic looking grips for the gun. I don't understand why the Italians don't make them look how they actually did... why the ugly red coating? I know very few care about how these guns actually looked, but for some reason I do. I'm not a cowboy action shooter, but I am a history buff and these old guns intrigue me greatly. I will do whatever it takes to get the most authentic Colt Walker I possibly can, short of buying a real one! Last edited by Model12Win; January 20, 2015 at 07:03 PM.

January 22, 2015, 08:42 PM	#11
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	Eagle grip out of Chicago. __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

January 19, 2015, 05:13 PM	#3
DoubleDeuce 1 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2013 Posts: 101	I have some Colts and some Italian copies. I never really give it much thought, but the more the grips are handled, the more they wear. It kind of sneaks up on you. Gives it character. One of my Italian jobs has almost no finish left on it. The revolver was produced about 1960 or so. Needless to say, it has seen a lot of handling. The dings and wear give it a huge amount of character. The gun has never been abused, just used. Is that what you are looking for?

January 19, 2015, 05:36 PM	#5
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Thanks! I really can find no info on the original finish and would like to immitate that if possible.

January 19, 2015, 07:04 PM	#6
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	I did this with bleach and vinegar

January 19, 2015, 10:14 PM	#7
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	That looks good, but I am wondering what they looked like back when they were new.

January 20, 2015, 10:13 AM	#8
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Try a Google Image Search on "Original Colt 1860 Army Revolver". You can see many examples of originals. Of course they are 150 years old and the wood tends to darken over time. Still, there are some pretty pristine examples on the web. Here is one: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/co.../#.VL5wGC5jcoM I found the above on this page which is full of them: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-1860-army/ Steve

January 20, 2015, 06:28 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The gun in Maillemaker's first link is righteous and about as nice a one as I have seen in a while. The first gun in his second link is good, but not as nice and has seen more use. The second gun is not very good and the grip look like they were worked on at some tme. Look at those grips and you will understand what I meant about the wood being more open than that on the repros. No matter what is done with those European walnut grips, they won't look right. Jim

January 24, 2015, 12:45 PM	#12
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Model 12 ? is that a Case Yellow Sodbuster or a copy? For years I have carried a Sodbuster Jr. with no regrets. It's the perfect pocketknife! Smooth, no sharp corners or edges to wear pockets and it holds a super edge! The blades on Sodbusters close securily, almost like a lock. They rarely close on the user. Don't know how they do it. The full size Sodbuster is an inch longer everywhere and it's a little large for pocket carry, The Blsde is the perfect length though. I read that Colt used a plain oil stain on their grips. I really like the smooth top grade finish Uberti uses, it allows the revolver to be shifted during holding and shooting it. I think it's some sort of Urethane varnish??? I usually just accept the plain cheapo Oil finish that Piettia uses, it's OK for GP uses and looks good too. ZVP

January 24, 2015, 04:21 PM	#13
Texas Reb Member Join Date: December 29, 2014 Posts: 82	Yep, I like the Sodbuster Jr. too! it's a great little carry knife. I have an old mint condition Sodbuster from 1983. It's sets on my shelf. I bought cause I always wanted one when I was younger. I have a can full of old knives. Knives are one of my passions

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