Gun vault feasible?

mendozer · February 20, 2019, 01:37 AM

I am contemplating building a gun vault. In the backyard I have a big shed that's split into a yard shed plus my "sporting goods" shed. This is where I store camping equipment, fishing stuff, reloading stuff, etc as it will have my reloading bench set up (recently moved in so not yet). But....is it feasible to wall in a small section to make a gun vault?
I'm thinking of using wall mounted gun racks and keeping all ammo in here as well.

I know what you're going to say...security and humidity.

Our shed is locked and this mini room in it would be extra locked. It's also further in the property so you'd really have to want to get in there.

Humidity...I was thinking of weather sealing the windows really well and maybe even use the eventual power supply to it to run a dehumidifier set to say 50% continuously with a drain. It beats humidity beads and other methods. But if this room was small enough, it would be overkill for a dehumidifier, unless I used it for the whole shed (this thing is maybe 12 feet wide and 15ish feet long and has a mini loft for storage in it)

What are your thoughts?

mendozer · February 20, 2019, 02:22 AM

I just now came across dri-rods used in safes. Would consume fewer watts than a dehumidifier, but 100 cf is their limitation. Although at only 8 watts usage, I wouldn't care if it just ran and ran and ran.

bamaranger · February 20, 2019, 03:21 AM

I would not store firearms or ammo in an outbuilding w/o some type of climate control. Temp swings and humidity will play hob with your guns, ammo and reloading components (primers and powder). Here in AL, a blue steel firearm, left in a vehicle, say behind your pickup seat, outdoors, over a period of time will rust badly, though it may never get wet.

I know several folks who have built gun vaults, in their homes, by obtaining a vault like door, and building a room with reinforced walls. I have seen plans for such structures, though I could not give you a source. I would not consider my guns safe in a typical sheet metal utility shed. An axe or reciprocating saw, will get you in that easily. A chain and 4WD might just pull the whole shed apart. Stuff happens.

The builds I have seen used a combo of plywood, concrete block, poured concrete and rebar rods. The doors were safe/vault type doors w/ corresponding frames, made for the purpose.

Dfariswheel · February 20, 2019, 08:58 PM

Last summer a relative was in a tornado area and watched as a shed owned by a neighbor 4 houses away tumbled through his back yard.
It wasn't a tornado, just high winds.

I absolutely would not store my guns outside the house unless the structure was built like a bank vault.

Any shed is going to have to be WELL built and well insulated to prevent rusting of guns and reloading equipment, dehumidifier or not.
My old gun club had a very well constructed club house-target shed on the range with club reloading presses mounted on a bench.
The were always rusty no matter how dry the shed was or how much grease was on them.

mendozer · February 20, 2019, 11:51 PM

I should clarify I suppose. When I say shed I'm using lay terms. However, the previous owner had this built on pier blocks and it is a legitimate building. 4x4 framing, insulated roof and about half the walls (I'll finish). solid floor (but too risky for me to put 1000 lb safe on it). So we're not talking the metal sheds here or the crappy home depot insta-shed types. It's built to normal building code. But with that being said, the only way I'd store my guns out there is with some climate control, just don't know what type.

Silly as it sounds, I'm not worried about someone getting in there. It's locked like I said and the inner room will be locked again with either biometric or some other high security lock. And sure, if some unsavory character knew there were a dozen guns in there, they could in theory bring power tools to get in there. But that's like me taking heart medicine in the event that now at 31 I MIGHT get a heart attack. The odds are so far off and I only have one neighbor, and this building is behind my house away from the street. Many other things would be broken into first, or he'd be noticed first before he ever got back there.

BUT....I could still reinforce the area more like say with metal grating between the plywood walls and the Secureit metal panels I was planning on putting up. So regular old wood tools wouldn't be able to get in there.

And if by some will of a determined person, they get in there (if they knew to get in there), then hell I'll just have to get them reimbursed by insurance. I'm not going to be paranoid about something that's so highly unlikely. My main concern is the weatherproofing. Here in Seattle we don't crazy wind storms over 60 mph all that often(or ever in the last 9 years living here) and like I mentioned this building is well established and secure to the ground.

TailGator · February 21, 2019, 05:14 PM

Don't forget ceiling and walls in your reinforcement effort. I don't know Seattle weather, but it has a reputation for being pretty moist. I would be aggressive about controlling the humidity. I'm in Florida, and my guns stay indoors.

mendozer · February 22, 2019, 12:55 AM

I'll talk to my contractor buddy about weatherproofing. If it ends up being too hard, I'll scrap it and just get a safe. I really want it in the same shed as my reloading bench but oh well. We can't always get what we want.

Skans · February 22, 2019, 10:41 AM

"humidity."

That pretty much says it all there. I would never store any of my guns in a location which does not have AC and/or a constant running good dehumidifier. I once gave a Remington 22-250 rifle to the College Campus police to store for me while in college. When I got it back, it was coated with a light dusting of rust. Never, never, NEVER again!

unclejack37 · February 22, 2019, 06:12 PM

I saw a neat thing on Pinterest. Someone took a side by side refrigerator and turned it into a gun safe. The smaller freezer side held the ammo and the other side held the rifles and hand guns. Now the refrigerator has a magnetic seal around it so that should help with your humidity problem. You can buy refrigerator door locks on the internet, and you bolt the refrigerator to the floor of your shed. Let me know how you make out with that. I think I might look into that.https://www.pinterest.com/pin/477381629225635957/

2wheelwander · February 22, 2019, 06:37 PM

I don't care what anyone says, Pintrest is pretty cool.

osbornk · February 23, 2019, 12:01 PM

I wouldn't consider storing my firearms outside of the home I live in. I think, in addition to controlled humidity, they need to be stored where the temperature doesn't change much. Humidity and temperature change impacts wood and similar material not for the better.

M88 · February 25, 2019, 02:13 PM

Neat idea, but I also wouldn't store thousands of bucks worth of firearms outside of my house. Humidity aside, a battery powered sawzall with a 6" wood/metal cutting blade and unless your walls are solid concrete, they are IN. Even standard block wall can easily be busted through with an 8 lb sledge and enough time to bust away enough to squeeze inside. All they would have to do is wait till you're not home... take their time and your guns are toast. Of course they could probably get into your house though a window or back door just as easily. If said guns were in a GOOD safe, that would be better, but google busting into safes and you'll find that MOST safes, if the thief has the time (knowing you are gone for hours/ days whatever), can be gotten into eventually.

FITASC · February 25, 2019, 02:19 PM

Don't forget about security as well. It may be well back on your property, but if you can't see what's happening, that just gives them more time.
Walk-in gun vaults that I have seen are built either around old underground wine cellar types or use those walk-in Browning-type doors that are embedded in steel frames and solid concrete walls. In either case there were humidity controls, power, drain, alarm, etc.

Skans · February 25, 2019, 03:15 PM

"if the thief has the time (knowing you are gone for hours/ days whatever), can be gotten into eventually."

While this is true, there are several things to consider. The vids you can see on the internet are done by someone trying to sell "better" safes. Also, the ones that pop up the most are of safes out in the open, not bolted down where the entire safe can be thrown down on its back. Nor are they bolted down inside of a closet. So, if you are talking about:
1. Breaking into a house'
2. Locating the safe to begin with
3. trying to pry through a $2,000 gun safe set back in a closet; or cutting through layers or drywall, wood studs and then attacking the safe, all of this takes lots of time. And, noise. I suppose if you are in a very rural area and the thief knows exactly when you will gone for an extended period of time, that would be something to worry about. Most of the time a well installed 2K gun safe works great.

mendozer · February 25, 2019, 03:33 PM

yes and we're assuming the thief knows what they're after. The average burglar is opportunistic. They're not coming ready to bust into gun safes, just looking for easy to grab TVs, small appliances, jewelry, etc

Like I said if someone went through all that trouble to break in and take it all, then they get to keep it and insurance gets notified.

This weekend I thought about it more and I don't know if I would have WiFi range out there for watching gunsmithing videos. So...maybe I'll frame out a wall in the mud room and put it there instead. So now I still need to decide gun safe in a regular room with lockable door or Vault door with everything displayed on racks.

And yes the walls would be cinderblock if I went this route.

Skans · February 26, 2019, 08:35 AM

"And yes the walls would be cinderblock if I went this route."

I think it's every guy's dream to have a gun vault if you have the space and the money to make it happen. Of course, I would first want to make sure that my gun investment is worth more than my gun-vault.

mendozer · February 27, 2019, 02:01 AM

haha good point. Well if I total up the retail purchases, then I'd definitely say it's over 3k, which is what I'd project this costing.

FITASC · February 27, 2019, 09:18 AM

If you see yourself acquiring more guns down the road, then the project sounds like it is worth the investment. I have 3K in just two handguns, let alone everything else; unfortunately, my new-to-me old house doesn't have the layout for a room or vault like that.

February 20, 2019, 01:37 AM	#1
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	Gun vault feasible? I am contemplating building a gun vault. In the backyard I have a big shed that's split into a yard shed plus my "sporting goods" shed. This is where I store camping equipment, fishing stuff, reloading stuff, etc as it will have my reloading bench set up (recently moved in so not yet). But....is it feasible to wall in a small section to make a gun vault? I'm thinking of using wall mounted gun racks and keeping all ammo in here as well. I know what you're going to say...security and humidity. Our shed is locked and this mini room in it would be extra locked. It's also further in the property so you'd really have to want to get in there. Humidity...I was thinking of weather sealing the windows really well and maybe even use the eventual power supply to it to run a dehumidifier set to say 50% continuously with a drain. It beats humidity beads and other methods. But if this room was small enough, it would be overkill for a dehumidifier, unless I used it for the whole shed (this thing is maybe 12 feet wide and 15ish feet long and has a mini loft for storage in it) What are your thoughts?

February 20, 2019, 03:21 AM	#3
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	vault I would not store firearms or ammo in an outbuilding w/o some type of climate control. Temp swings and humidity will play hob with your guns, ammo and reloading components (primers and powder). Here in AL, a blue steel firearm, left in a vehicle, say behind your pickup seat, outdoors, over a period of time will rust badly, though it may never get wet. I know several folks who have built gun vaults, in their homes, by obtaining a vault like door, and building a room with reinforced walls. I have seen plans for such structures, though I could not give you a source. I would not consider my guns safe in a typical sheet metal utility shed. An axe or reciprocating saw, will get you in that easily. A chain and 4WD might just pull the whole shed apart. Stuff happens. The builds I have seen used a combo of plywood, concrete block, poured concrete and rebar rods. The doors were safe/vault type doors w/ corresponding frames, made for the purpose.

February 25, 2019, 02:13 PM	#12
M88 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2018 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 278	Neat idea, but I also wouldn't store thousands of bucks worth of firearms outside of my house. Humidity aside, a battery powered sawzall with a 6" wood/metal cutting blade and unless your walls are solid concrete, they are IN. Even standard block wall can easily be busted through with an 8 lb sledge and enough time to bust away enough to squeeze inside. All they would have to do is wait till you're not home... take their time and your guns are toast. Of course they could probably get into your house though a window or back door just as easily. If said guns were in a GOOD safe, that would be better, but google busting into safes and you'll find that MOST safes, if the thief has the time (knowing you are gone for hours/ days whatever), can be gotten into eventually. __________________ NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless!

February 25, 2019, 02:19 PM	#13
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Don't forget about security as well. It may be well back on your property, but if you can't see what's happening, that just gives them more time. Walk-in gun vaults that I have seen are built either around old underground wine cellar types or use those walk-in Browning-type doors that are embedded in steel frames and solid concrete walls. In either case there were humidity controls, power, drain, alarm, etc. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa Last edited by FITASC; February 25, 2019 at 03:48 PM. Reason: spelling

February 27, 2019, 09:18 AM	#18
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	If you see yourself acquiring more guns down the road, then the project sounds like it is worth the investment. I have 3K in just two handguns, let alone everything else; unfortunately, my new-to-me old house doesn't have the layout for a room or vault like that. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 20, 2019, 02:22 AM	#2
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	I just now came across dri-rods used in safes. Would consume fewer watts than a dehumidifier, but 100 cf is their limitation. Although at only 8 watts usage, I wouldn't care if it just ran and ran and ran.

February 20, 2019, 08:58 PM	#4
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Last summer a relative was in a tornado area and watched as a shed owned by a neighbor 4 houses away tumbled through his back yard. It wasn't a tornado, just high winds. I absolutely would not store my guns outside the house unless the structure was built like a bank vault. Any shed is going to have to be WELL built and well insulated to prevent rusting of guns and reloading equipment, dehumidifier or not. My old gun club had a very well constructed club house-target shed on the range with club reloading presses mounted on a bench. The were always rusty no matter how dry the shed was or how much grease was on them.

February 20, 2019, 11:51 PM	#5
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	I should clarify I suppose. When I say shed I'm using lay terms. However, the previous owner had this built on pier blocks and it is a legitimate building. 4x4 framing, insulated roof and about half the walls (I'll finish). solid floor (but too risky for me to put 1000 lb safe on it). So we're not talking the metal sheds here or the crappy home depot insta-shed types. It's built to normal building code. But with that being said, the only way I'd store my guns out there is with some climate control, just don't know what type. Silly as it sounds, I'm not worried about someone getting in there. It's locked like I said and the inner room will be locked again with either biometric or some other high security lock. And sure, if some unsavory character knew there were a dozen guns in there, they could in theory bring power tools to get in there. But that's like me taking heart medicine in the event that now at 31 I MIGHT get a heart attack. The odds are so far off and I only have one neighbor, and this building is behind my house away from the street. Many other things would be broken into first, or he'd be noticed first before he ever got back there. BUT....I could still reinforce the area more like say with metal grating between the plywood walls and the Secureit metal panels I was planning on putting up. So regular old wood tools wouldn't be able to get in there. And if by some will of a determined person, they get in there (if they knew to get in there), then hell I'll just have to get them reimbursed by insurance. I'm not going to be paranoid about something that's so highly unlikely. My main concern is the weatherproofing. Here in Seattle we don't crazy wind storms over 60 mph all that often(or ever in the last 9 years living here) and like I mentioned this building is well established and secure to the ground.

February 21, 2019, 05:14 PM	#6
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	Don't forget ceiling and walls in your reinforcement effort. I don't know Seattle weather, but it has a reputation for being pretty moist. I would be aggressive about controlling the humidity. I'm in Florida, and my guns stay indoors.

February 22, 2019, 12:55 AM	#7
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	I'll talk to my contractor buddy about weatherproofing. If it ends up being too hard, I'll scrap it and just get a safe. I really want it in the same shed as my reloading bench but oh well. We can't always get what we want.

February 22, 2019, 10:41 AM	#8
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	"humidity." That pretty much says it all there. I would never store any of my guns in a location which does not have AC and/or a constant running good dehumidifier. I once gave a Remington 22-250 rifle to the College Campus police to store for me while in college. When I got it back, it was coated with a light dusting of rust. Never, never, NEVER again!

February 22, 2019, 06:12 PM	#9
unclejack37 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 121	I saw a neat thing on Pinterest. Someone took a side by side refrigerator and turned it into a gun safe. The smaller freezer side held the ammo and the other side held the rifles and hand guns. Now the refrigerator has a magnetic seal around it so that should help with your humidity problem. You can buy refrigerator door locks on the internet, and you bolt the refrigerator to the floor of your shed. Let me know how you make out with that. I think I might look into that.https://www.pinterest.com/pin/477381629225635957/

February 22, 2019, 06:37 PM	#10
2wheelwander Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2018 Posts: 539	I don't care what anyone says, Pintrest is pretty cool.

February 23, 2019, 12:01 PM	#11
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	I wouldn't consider storing my firearms outside of the home I live in. I think, in addition to controlled humidity, they need to be stored where the temperature doesn't change much. Humidity and temperature change impacts wood and similar material not for the better.

February 25, 2019, 03:15 PM	#14
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	"if the thief has the time (knowing you are gone for hours/ days whatever), can be gotten into eventually." While this is true, there are several things to consider. The vids you can see on the internet are done by someone trying to sell "better" safes. Also, the ones that pop up the most are of safes out in the open, not bolted down where the entire safe can be thrown down on its back. Nor are they bolted down inside of a closet. So, if you are talking about: 1. Breaking into a house' 2. Locating the safe to begin with 3. trying to pry through a $2,000 gun safe set back in a closet; or cutting through layers or drywall, wood studs and then attacking the safe, all of this takes lots of time. And, noise. I suppose if you are in a very rural area and the thief knows exactly when you will gone for an extended period of time, that would be something to worry about. Most of the time a well installed 2K gun safe works great.

February 25, 2019, 03:33 PM	#15
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	yes and we're assuming the thief knows what they're after. The average burglar is opportunistic. They're not coming ready to bust into gun safes, just looking for easy to grab TVs, small appliances, jewelry, etc Like I said if someone went through all that trouble to break in and take it all, then they get to keep it and insurance gets notified. This weekend I thought about it more and I don't know if I would have WiFi range out there for watching gunsmithing videos. So...maybe I'll frame out a wall in the mud room and put it there instead. So now I still need to decide gun safe in a regular room with lockable door or Vault door with everything displayed on racks. And yes the walls would be cinderblock if I went this route.

February 26, 2019, 08:35 AM	#16
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	"And yes the walls would be cinderblock if I went this route." I think it's every guy's dream to have a gun vault if you have the space and the money to make it happen. Of course, I would first want to make sure that my gun investment is worth more than my gun-vault.

February 27, 2019, 02:01 AM	#17
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	haha good point. Well if I total up the retail purchases, then I'd definitely say it's over 3k, which is what I'd project this costing.