Ballester Molina

Happyasalark · January 27, 2019, 06:18 PM

Newbie here. I recently bought the ballaster Molina paid under 500. Did I do good or bad . It comes with a extra barrel , The new barrel is a Heinie in the the pistol now . Here are some pics . Thanks for any input. I can more pictures if need . Thanks

tipoc · January 27, 2019, 07:42 PM

looks fine. How's it shoot?

tipoc

lee n. field · January 27, 2019, 08:50 PM

If it was me, I wouldn't try to gunsmith this into a modern 1911.

l.cutler · January 28, 2019, 04:40 AM

Very interesting guns. I can't make out the markings on yours, should tell you what branch it was issued to. Mine was actually marked for the Eva Peron foundation.

jar · January 28, 2019, 07:40 AM

tipoc · January 28, 2019, 07:53 PM

If you can take a few shots of it field stripped and of the markings on the slide and frame we can tell you more.

It's clear from the comp and the sights that it is no longer stock and someone worked on it.

So shoot it and see what's up.

tipoc

Japle · January 30, 2019, 05:21 PM

I have one in original condition. The sights are tiny, but the gun's quite accurate and totally reliable with JRN ammo.

They're actually very nice guns. Don't believe the stories about them being made from armor salvaged from the Graf Spee. Gordon Liddy loved to tell that fable; he even used it in a book, but it's not true.

CWO4USCGRET · January 31, 2019, 02:42 PM

I found one in a local gun shop early last year. It is one of the cleanest B-M's that I've ever seen. It's marked Ejercito Argentina - Army of Argentina

CWO4USCGRET · January 31, 2019, 02:43 PM

tipoc · January 31, 2019, 02:49 PM

Excellent pics! Thanks.

tipoc

Ibmikey · January 31, 2019, 03:51 PM

The Ballister Molina is a copy of the Star Model A, B etc series of pistols and a normally good shooters you did ok.

T. O'Heir · February 1, 2019, 02:34 PM

"...wouldn't try to gunsmith this..." Has a comp. Been smithied already. I believe lots of 'em were gussied up when IPSC and the other shooting games started without much fuss. As I recall they were Colt clones with some being Colts.
1,000 pixels is too big.

JJ45 · February 1, 2019, 05:16 PM

Made the way John Browning intended, if it hasn't been altered...similar to Norinco 1911s.

l.cutler · February 1, 2019, 05:21 PM

There used to be a great web site on the Ballester-Molina pistols. History, year of manufacture by serial number, identification of the markings. I was really disappointed when it was taken down.

dannyb · February 1, 2019, 06:49 PM

I have been messing with one of them, put new sights and stuff. The other I left as manufactured. These are not expensive pistols, but they are a lot of fun to shoot and reasonably accurate. Some parts are interchangeable with Colt, but the firing group is different and you should note that there is no grip safety. They are also quite heavy. Some people confuse these with actual Colts made under license in Argentina.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 1, 2019, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ45

Made the way John Browning intended, if it hasn't been altered...similar to Norinco 1911s.

What do you see as John Browning's relationship to the Ballester-Molina?

tipoc · February 1, 2019, 07:46 PM

Some background on the pistols and some production dates:

http://sightm1911.com/lib/history/ballester.htm

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...of-manufacture

See above for more info. I can't vouch that what is below is accurate.

Quote:

Ballester Molina serial numbers and date of manufacture.
Ran across the following info re dates of manufacture and serial number ranges for BR and BM pistols. If not previously disseminated, it may be of use.
YEAR SERIAL NUMBER RANGE
1938 1-100
1939 101-1357
1940 1358-5673
1941 5874-7090
1942 7091-10000

All above are Ballester Rigaud.

1943 10001-13972
1944 13973-27196
1945 27197-40939
1946 40940-55576
1947 55577-64366
1948 64367-71651
1949 71652-73701
1950 73702-81100
1951 81101-95527
1952 95528-103824
1953 103825-106000
1954 106001-108000
1955 108001-110053
1956 NONE.
All above are Ballester Molina.

Assembled by Armotor, S.A.
1957 110054-113924.

Apparently Armotor,S.A. was a short-lived successor to Ballester Molina that assembled and sold left over parts and guns.
SOURCE:Las Armas Largas y Cortas del Ejercito Argentino, by Celso Juiz, Editorial Universitaria del Ejercito-Buenos Aires,Argentina 2017

tipoc

tipoc · February 1, 2019, 07:51 PM

It's of note that the pics posted above by CWO4USCGRET are identical to pics posted in the GunBoards forum by him last year.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...of-manufacture

tipoc

tipoc · February 1, 2019, 07:56 PM

How's it shoot?

tipoc

silvermane_1 · February 3, 2019, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ45

Made the way John Browning intended, if it hasn't been altered...similar to Norinco 1911s.

Except Norinco's are defacto 1911 clones, a Ballester-Molina is an 1911ish clone.

JJ45 · February 3, 2019, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

What do you see as John Browning's relationship to the Ballester-Molina?

John Browning designed the 1911...the Ballester Molina may be a licensed copy of a 1911A1 or I could be wrong. Maybe the Argentine Sistema 1911 is the copy I'm thinking of.

These, as well as Norinco's, seem to be highly regarded by 1911 purists.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 3, 2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ45

John Browning designed the 1911...the Ballester Molina may be a licensed copy of a 1911A1 or I could be wrong. Maybe the Argentine Sistema 1911 is the copy I'm thinking of.

The Sistema is the M1911A1 clone. The Ballester-Molina is a completely different mechanism.

Bill DeShivs · February 3, 2019, 03:15 PM

As Ibmikey said above- the Ballester Molina is a copy of the Star pistol design.

highpower3006 · February 4, 2019, 09:06 AM

I find it interesting that the Ballester-Molina pictured above has assembly numbers that are different than the serial number, something I didn't know until now. And by the way, that is a truly gorgeous example (two matching number magazines!).

I have a very nice original matching number 1927 Sistema and have been looking for a decent B-M at a reasonable price but so far haven't turned up "the one".

In general, I have found that Argentine manufactured firearms to be well made and very good quality. While all my experience with them has been with their copies of Browning designs (Hipower, 1911), I find the indigenously designed Ballester-Molina to be an interesting firearm and I hope that someday I can find one as nice as CWO4USCGRET has.

Bill DeShivs · February 4, 2019, 04:10 PM

My Ballester has the same serial number as the assembly number.

January 27, 2019, 07:42 PM	#2
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	looks fine. How's it shoot? tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

January 27, 2019, 08:50 PM	#3
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,568	If it was me, I wouldn't try to gunsmith this into a modern 1911. __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

January 28, 2019, 07:40 AM	#5
jar Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Deep South Texas Posts: 1,668	__________________ To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!

January 28, 2019, 07:53 PM	#6
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	If you can take a few shots of it field stripped and of the markings on the slide and frame we can tell you more. It's clear from the comp and the sights that it is no longer stock and someone worked on it. So shoot it and see what's up. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

January 31, 2019, 02:43 PM	#9
CWO4USCGRET Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2005 Posts: 197	more pictures

January 28, 2019, 04:40 AM	#4
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	Very interesting guns. I can't make out the markings on yours, should tell you what branch it was issued to. Mine was actually marked for the Eva Peron foundation.

January 30, 2019, 05:21 PM	#7
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	I have one in original condition. The sights are tiny, but the gun's quite accurate and totally reliable with JRN ammo. They're actually very nice guns. Don't believe the stories about them being made from armor salvaged from the Graf Spee. Gordon Liddy loved to tell that fable; he even used it in a book, but it's not true.

January 31, 2019, 02:42 PM	#8
CWO4USCGRET Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2005 Posts: 197	I found one in a local gun shop early last year. It is one of the cleanest B-M's that I've ever seen. It's marked Ejercito Argentina - Army of Argentina

January 31, 2019, 02:49 PM	#10
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Excellent pics! Thanks. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

January 31, 2019, 03:51 PM	#11
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	The Ballister Molina is a copy of the Star Model A, B etc series of pistols and a normally good shooters you did ok.

February 1, 2019, 02:34 PM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...wouldn't try to gunsmith this..." Has a comp. Been smithied already. I believe lots of 'em were gussied up when IPSC and the other shooting games started without much fuss. As I recall they were Colt clones with some being Colts. 1,000 pixels is too big. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 1, 2019, 05:16 PM	#13
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	Made the way John Browning intended, if it hasn't been altered...similar to Norinco 1911s.

February 1, 2019, 05:21 PM	#14
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	There used to be a great web site on the Ballester-Molina pistols. History, year of manufacture by serial number, identification of the markings. I was really disappointed when it was taken down.

February 1, 2019, 06:49 PM	#15
dannyb Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: SE PA Posts: 336	I have a couple I have been messing with one of them, put new sights and stuff. The other I left as manufactured. These are not expensive pistols, but they are a lot of fun to shoot and reasonably accurate. Some parts are interchangeable with Colt, but the firing group is different and you should note that there is no grip safety. They are also quite heavy. Some people confuse these with actual Colts made under license in Argentina. __________________ Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash)

February 1, 2019, 07:51 PM	#18
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	It's of note that the pics posted above by CWO4USCGRET are identical to pics posted in the GunBoards forum by him last year. https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...of-manufacture tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

February 1, 2019, 07:56 PM	#19
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	How's it shoot? tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

February 3, 2019, 03:15 PM	#23
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	As Ibmikey said above- the Ballester Molina is a copy of the Star pistol design. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 4, 2019, 09:06 AM	#24
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	I find it interesting that the Ballester-Molina pictured above has assembly numbers that are different than the serial number, something I didn't know until now. And by the way, that is a truly gorgeous example (two matching number magazines!). I have a very nice original matching number 1927 Sistema and have been looking for a decent B-M at a reasonable price but so far haven't turned up "the one". In general, I have found that Argentine manufactured firearms to be well made and very good quality. While all my experience with them has been with their copies of Browning designs (Hipower, 1911), I find the indigenously designed Ballester-Molina to be an interesting firearm and I hope that someday I can find one as nice as CWO4USCGRET has.

February 4, 2019, 04:10 PM	#25
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	My Ballester has the same serial number as the assembly number. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com