There's Some New 12 Gauge Howdah Pistols in Town! - Page 3

TheAtomsFam · March 20, 2019, 08:38 AM

OKAY HERES THE REAL GOODS. TIM GOW AND AMERICAN GUNCRAFT ARE FABRICATED USING YOUR "PURCHASE" AS THEIR INVESTMENT CAPITAL. NONE OF IT WAS REAL, now SOME of it is. BUT HE DID IT OFF OUR BACKS AND ADVERTISING USING PHOTOS< THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

Business Description
AGC Companies is located in Saint Paul, Minnesota. This organization primarily operates in the Business Services, nec business / industry within the Business Services sector. This organization has been operating for approximately a year. AGC Companies is estimated to generate $27,976 in annual revenues, and employs approximately 1 people at this single location.

noelf2 · March 20, 2019, 08:55 AM

I was hoping that you finally got it. Did you cancel your order?

TheAtomsFam · March 20, 2019, 12:17 PM

Yep got my refund. I think they owe a lot of apologies, honesty and interest on the money recieved. When I take a bank loan they charge interest, as should AGC be charged for the $400 "loans" from us. instead of dishonestly scrounging for investment capital.
How many paid for orders have they got since November 2018
Class action anyone???

51cskipper · March 21, 2019, 06:50 AM

They probably don't have any assets to sue for.

Here's his County's District Attorney:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-gov...torneys-office

Here's their Fraud unit:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-gov...ion/fraud-unit

Theoldredneck · March 21, 2019, 12:10 PM

Have watched this thread and others hoping to see or hear of someone that actually had one. Would buy at least a couple of their designs if they worked well. For prices advertised much cheaper than anything else on market. Would really like to see them become a reality.

Kephart · March 27, 2019, 03:05 PM

I notice they continue to sell the Diablo with a six week ship time on their website. Rather dishonest when they know full well they won't be shipping anything in six weeks.

noelf2 · March 28, 2019, 07:57 AM

On thehighroad.com, Freedom475 has a Diablo in hand. It isn't his, as he's a holster maker and I'm assuming AGC sent him an early production model for measurements. I'm still not hearing of anyone getting their own gun yet.

Schlitz 45 · March 28, 2019, 06:35 PM

I sent Tim an email this Monday requesting a no BS update on their production status & received this reply the following day:

Yes it has taken much longer than we anticipated and I apologize for the delay, here is where we are at
The frames are in machining, then they need to go to mass polishing and finishing
All barrel assembly parts are in machining right now, then welding, then mass finishing, then finishing
All other parts are standing by for assembly except hammers are currently in machining
We are still out at least a few more weeks and I do not have an exact delivery date, since your order has been back ordered for such a long time we would prefer to cancel it and notify you when we have stock on hand or if you really want to stay on back order just please let us know, otherwise know we are working on getting your order filled

Thank you
Tim

You can take this anyway you want to. If it doesn't work out I'll chalk it up as an inexpensive lesson. Being the eternal optimist that I am I'm keeping my order in. I'll remain positive & look forward to one day receiving my Diablo.

Kephart · March 28, 2019, 10:04 PM

I think they will eventually start producing guns. I don't really like the way he has gone about getting this thing up and running, trying to appear as if they are an established gun maker instead of just saying they are upstarts, but I don't think it's a scam. I'm guessing he went into this under-capitalized and has been clawing for funds to get off the ground. I think the concept is great and assuming they can produce some guns and the guns are of decent quality, they will be a big success.

woodnbow · March 29, 2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wheelwander

I'm gonna need the snakeskin version, a waxed cotton full length duster, a Stetson, a mullet, and a pair of wrap around Oakleys.

Oh, and a full on leg rig to carry it in when I go shopping. Maybe a tooth pick.

I still want one.

I wish we had a “like” button...

straightshooterjake · March 29, 2019, 10:43 PM

Ian on Forgotten Weapons channel recently did a video called "Bankrupcy of Hudson Manufacturing and the Reality of Firearms Manufacturing." The video covers a range of subjects, but the main theme is about the challenges a small company has in getting a new firearm into successful production. Much of his discussion is directly relevant to the subjects of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjGcsYH0lOs

TheAtomsFam · March 30, 2019, 05:46 AM

While the product may appear in limited quantity someday.Tim Goy conned folks to make this happen. Misrepresented and lied to me, personally, via e-mail over and over again.
AGC is not and has never been a reputable firearms parts manufacturer.
Yall remember ZAMAK? if not its a Cast zinc-alloy the slides of Hi-Points and cheap saturday night specials were made from. Well I think that may be what you receive, if you receive a gun from AGC....... Faux wood grain plastic and Zamak

TheAtomsFam · March 31, 2019, 07:54 AM

AND just so this is recognized as being established fact.
AGC does not have a manufacturing history dating back to 1941.The videos and machines and equipment they display and advertise..... Are not property of AGC or being ran by AGC. Their website is compiled of false claims, links and recommendations to companies that DO NOT support or endorse them.
and they took a bunch of money from customers, saying that we'd have a product in our hands within 6 weeks. Then told us just to wait "a few more weeks" for months on end.They didn't even have a prototype to show.
One big lie from Timothy Goy.

TheAtomsFam · April 5, 2019, 08:23 AM

So heres the definitive proof of a sham.
This is a Goblin Paintball gun.See attached picture.

noelf2 · April 5, 2019, 10:26 AM

Sure looks similar, but remember that Freedom475 on TheHighRoad.org has a Diablo in hand. Not his (on loan from AGC), but it's a black powder gun with 209 primer pockets. Not a paintball gun. Tim may very well have copied the looks of the "Goblin", or the maker of the Goblin copied Tim's Diablo, but what Freedom has is not a Goblin.

TheAtomsFam · April 5, 2019, 11:46 AM

The Goblin Paintball Gun has been on the market for a couple years now

TheAtomsFam · April 5, 2019, 11:49 AM

Bigger, Better firearms manufacturing firms in America have folded.
So to expect AGC to succeed with deflection and awful customer service is absurd.

noelf2 · April 5, 2019, 12:05 PM

I wonder if all the websites, like Armslist, Gunbroker, etc., that are taking money from AGC for advertisements on their pages, are aware that they are supporting (legitimizing) either a failed company at best, and a total scam at worst?

straightshooterjake · April 5, 2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noelf2

Sure looks similar, but remember that Freedom475 on TheHighRoad.org has a Diablo in hand. Not his (on loan from AGC), but it's a black powder gun with 209 primer pockets. Not a paintball gun. Tim may very well have copied the looks of the "Goblin", or the maker of the Goblin copied Tim's Diablo, but what Freedom has is not a Goblin.

I am hesitant to comment, since I have no knowledge of this specific situation. But I will still offer, that in general, the existence of a functioning prototype says very little about the status of a production line.

There are always prototypes before significant production gets under way. Some prototypes are one-off hand built samples, and others are early pieces off of nearly production ready equipment. Without more details, the relationship between prototypes and production is purely speculative. Well, with the exception that prototypes is certainly better than no prototypes.

Kephart · April 5, 2019, 10:39 PM

If one of these guns exists why couldn't they make a video of it in action and post it on You Tube? I notice the website still says new Diablos are shipping in 6 weeks, it has said that for months now. It also says the next production run of the other guns will be in June or July, when was the first one? I keep wanting to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but it's getting harder and harder. I canceled my order and he did refund my money. I guess that's something.

noelf2 · April 21, 2019, 08:38 AM

Anybody get one yet?

Kephart · April 22, 2019, 11:48 PM

Website now says shipping in 8+ weeks.....

Schlitz 45 · May 11, 2019, 12:05 PM

They’re like Bigfoot, only rumors & short grainy videos

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=oDpj9_G0Fgg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JO0RMD6y1vM

Old Stony · May 11, 2019, 05:23 PM

Sorry...but the design of them looks entirely out of proportion and not attractive to me. The grip angle is nearly 90% compared to the barrels and the whole thing is just goofy looking. Now the Pedersoli's are attractive looking, but WAY overpriced for what they are. A guy is probably better off just buying a smoothbore pistol and calling it good...

TruthTellers · May 11, 2019, 09:14 PM

Gotta love how companies always claim they'll have the new product in "full production" by so and so date and months later it's still not happening because of "issues."

I've learned whenever a company says something like that, tack an extra 6 months on because they intentionally state a time that's not too far off to build excitement, product doesn't ship and then there's an update that it's only 2-3 months more.

March 20, 2019, 08:55 AM	#52
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I was hoping that you finally got it. Did you cancel your order? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 20, 2019, 12:17 PM	#53
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	AGC is a Bust and a Bummer Yep got my refund. I think they owe a lot of apologies, honesty and interest on the money recieved. When I take a bank loan they charge interest, as should AGC be charged for the $400 "loans" from us. instead of dishonestly scrounging for investment capital. How many paid for orders have they got since November 2018 Class action anyone???

March 21, 2019, 06:50 AM	#54
51cskipper Member Join Date: March 7, 2019 Location: California Posts: 60	They probably don't have any assets to sue for. Here's his County's District Attorney: https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-gov...torneys-office Here's their Fraud unit: https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-gov...ion/fraud-unit Last edited by 51cskipper; March 21, 2019 at 07:14 AM.

March 21, 2019, 12:10 PM	#55
Theoldredneck Junior Member Join Date: March 15, 2019 Posts: 1	Still interested Have watched this thread and others hoping to see or hear of someone that actually had one. Would buy at least a couple of their designs if they worked well. For prices advertised much cheaper than anything else on market. Would really like to see them become a reality.

March 28, 2019, 07:57 AM	#57
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	On thehighroad.com, Freedom475 has a Diablo in hand. It isn't his, as he's a holster maker and I'm assuming AGC sent him an early production model for measurements. I'm still not hearing of anyone getting their own gun yet. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 20, 2019, 08:38 AM	#51
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	OKAY HERES THE REAL GOODS. TIM GOW AND AMERICAN GUNCRAFT ARE FABRICATED USING YOUR "PURCHASE" AS THEIR INVESTMENT CAPITAL. NONE OF IT WAS REAL, now SOME of it is. BUT HE DID IT OFF OUR BACKS AND ADVERTISING USING PHOTOS< THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM. Business Description AGC Companies is located in Saint Paul, Minnesota. This organization primarily operates in the Business Services, nec business / industry within the Business Services sector. This organization has been operating for approximately a year. AGC Companies is estimated to generate $27,976 in annual revenues, and employs approximately 1 people at this single location.

March 27, 2019, 03:05 PM	#56
Kephart Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2019 Location: Southwest VA Posts: 10	I notice they continue to sell the Diablo with a six week ship time on their website. Rather dishonest when they know full well they won't be shipping anything in six weeks.

March 28, 2019, 06:35 PM	#58
Schlitz 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 384	I sent Tim an email this Monday requesting a no BS update on their production status & received this reply the following day: Yes it has taken much longer than we anticipated and I apologize for the delay, here is where we are at The frames are in machining, then they need to go to mass polishing and finishing All barrel assembly parts are in machining right now, then welding, then mass finishing, then finishing All other parts are standing by for assembly except hammers are currently in machining We are still out at least a few more weeks and I do not have an exact delivery date, since your order has been back ordered for such a long time we would prefer to cancel it and notify you when we have stock on hand or if you really want to stay on back order just please let us know, otherwise know we are working on getting your order filled Thank you Tim You can take this anyway you want to. If it doesn't work out I'll chalk it up as an inexpensive lesson. Being the eternal optimist that I am I'm keeping my order in. I'll remain positive & look forward to one day receiving my Diablo.

March 28, 2019, 10:04 PM	#59
Kephart Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2019 Location: Southwest VA Posts: 10	I think they will eventually start producing guns. I don't really like the way he has gone about getting this thing up and running, trying to appear as if they are an established gun maker instead of just saying they are upstarts, but I don't think it's a scam. I'm guessing he went into this under-capitalized and has been clawing for funds to get off the ground. I think the concept is great and assuming they can produce some guns and the guns are of decent quality, they will be a big success.

March 29, 2019, 10:43 PM	#61
straightshooterjake Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2016 Posts: 122	Ian on Forgotten Weapons channel recently did a video called "Bankrupcy of Hudson Manufacturing and the Reality of Firearms Manufacturing." The video covers a range of subjects, but the main theme is about the challenges a small company has in getting a new firearm into successful production. Much of his discussion is directly relevant to the subjects of this thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjGcsYH0lOs __________________ My blog: http://straightshooterjake.blogspot.com/ Last edited by straightshooterjake; March 30, 2019 at 08:28 AM.

March 30, 2019, 05:46 AM	#62
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	While the product may appear in limited quantity someday.Tim Goy conned folks to make this happen. Misrepresented and lied to me, personally, via e-mail over and over again. AGC is not and has never been a reputable firearms parts manufacturer. Yall remember ZAMAK? if not its a Cast zinc-alloy the slides of Hi-Points and cheap saturday night specials were made from. Well I think that may be what you receive, if you receive a gun from AGC....... Faux wood grain plastic and Zamak

March 31, 2019, 07:54 AM	#63
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	American gun craft agc "fake news" AND just so this is recognized as being established fact. AGC does not have a manufacturing history dating back to 1941.The videos and machines and equipment they display and advertise..... Are not property of AGC or being ran by AGC. Their website is compiled of false claims, links and recommendations to companies that DO NOT support or endorse them. and they took a bunch of money from customers, saying that we'd have a product in our hands within 6 weeks. Then told us just to wait "a few more weeks" for months on end.They didn't even have a prototype to show. One big lie from Timothy Goy.

April 5, 2019, 10:26 AM	#65
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Sure looks similar, but remember that Freedom475 on TheHighRoad.org has a Diablo in hand. Not his (on loan from AGC), but it's a black powder gun with 209 primer pockets. Not a paintball gun. Tim may very well have copied the looks of the "Goblin", or the maker of the Goblin copied Tim's Diablo, but what Freedom has is not a Goblin. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

April 5, 2019, 11:46 AM	#66
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	AGC dissapointment The Goblin Paintball Gun has been on the market for a couple years now

April 5, 2019, 11:49 AM	#67
TheAtomsFam Member Join Date: January 24, 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 16	AGC Bigger, Better firearms manufacturing firms in America have folded. So to expect AGC to succeed with deflection and awful customer service is absurd.

April 5, 2019, 12:05 PM	#68
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I wonder if all the websites, like Armslist, Gunbroker, etc., that are taking money from AGC for advertisements on their pages, are aware that they are supporting (legitimizing) either a failed company at best, and a total scam at worst? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

April 5, 2019, 10:39 PM	#70
Kephart Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2019 Location: Southwest VA Posts: 10	If one of these guns exists why couldn't they make a video of it in action and post it on You Tube? I notice the website still says new Diablos are shipping in 6 weeks, it has said that for months now. It also says the next production run of the other guns will be in June or July, when was the first one? I keep wanting to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but it's getting harder and harder. I canceled my order and he did refund my money. I guess that's something.

April 21, 2019, 08:38 AM	#71
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Anybody get one yet? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

April 22, 2019, 11:48 PM	#72
Kephart Junior Member Join Date: March 1, 2019 Location: Southwest VA Posts: 10	Website now says shipping in 8+ weeks.....

May 11, 2019, 12:05 PM	#73
Schlitz 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 384	They’re like Bigfoot, only rumors & short grainy videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=oDpj9_G0Fgg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JO0RMD6y1vM

May 11, 2019, 05:23 PM	#74
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Sorry...but the design of them looks entirely out of proportion and not attractive to me. The grip angle is nearly 90% compared to the barrels and the whole thing is just goofy looking. Now the Pedersoli's are attractive looking, but WAY overpriced for what they are. A guy is probably better off just buying a smoothbore pistol and calling it good...

May 11, 2019, 09:14 PM	#75
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Gotta love how companies always claim they'll have the new product in "full production" by so and so date and months later it's still not happening because of "issues." I've learned whenever a company says something like that, tack an extra 6 months on because they intentionally state a time that's not too far off to build excitement, product doesn't ship and then there's an update that it's only 2-3 months more. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

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