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Old November 10, 2017, 08:28 AM   #1
tony pasley
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From the Brown Bess to the M-16

From the Brown Bess and the Long Rifle to the M-16 and A-4 these are the guns used to protect this nation. Salute to all the veterans who picked up those arms and were willing to lay down their lives if needed to defend us, Happy Veterans Day!
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Old November 10, 2017, 12:04 PM   #2
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Amen
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Old November 10, 2017, 12:16 PM   #3
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The beat goes on

Interesting to note that the British were trying to ban the Brown Bess and were on the verge of confiscation, in the colonies. The Brown-Bess was the AR of it's day. Go figure !!!! ......

Be Safe !!!
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Old November 10, 2017, 03:09 PM   #4
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And the people that got behind a Ma’duece or crewed on a Paladin.
Don’t forget the support personnel either.
They are all appreciated. USA
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Old November 10, 2017, 05:19 PM   #5
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There was a gun confiscation in Boston prior to Lexington. Didn't stop the revolution though.

Many of the guns stock piled in Lexington and Concord might have been the Model 1756 Brown Bess left over from the French and Indian War.

But by the end of the revolution most of the Continental Army was carrying the French Charlesville Musket.
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Old November 10, 2017, 07:22 PM   #6
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The type of gun is not as important as the men and women who were willing to pick up those guns and stand up for this country.
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Old November 10, 2017, 08:05 PM   #7
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What was/is the longest serving small arm? I remember some of the M-2s were really old.
Or does anyone have a breakdown through the eras?
I’m sure that I could locate the information myself... but hey, there’s some knowledge here.
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Old November 10, 2017, 09:41 PM   #8
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I think the M-16 and its variants are the longest serving small arm and the M-2 the longest serving weapon of any kind.
That's just a guess.

On edit the longest serving weapons of any kind would be the cannon on the USS Constitution.
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Old November 11, 2017, 12:21 PM   #9
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Actually the muzzle loading long rifle from 1775 through 1870s.
Thank to all who served with honor
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Old November 11, 2017, 02:21 PM   #10
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"Give me iron in the men and I don't worry about the iron in the ships" Farragut
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Old November 11, 2017, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Pasley
Actually the muzzle loading long rifle from 1775 through 1870s.
But what make and model? "Muzzle loading long rifle" encompasses a lot. If we use that argument, we could say it's the "semi-automatic handgun," because we adopted the M1911 in 1911 and we now use the M-9 Beretta, which is also a semi-automatic handgun. So that's 106 years and counting ...
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Old November 11, 2017, 10:37 PM   #12
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There are still horse soldiers in the US Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Ca...lry_Detachment

They are armed with the 1873 Colt and Springfield.

Makes me wonder if there are ceremonial units armed with muskets. Would those be the longest serving firearms?
The Navy used the trapdoor Springfield as a line gun well after WWII. Would that count?
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Old November 12, 2017, 08:31 AM   #13
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^ Absolute example of fraud waste and abuse. Along with the division bands. Yes, we need to remember our history, but the money that they soak up is unreal. If your job can be parted with and it won't have an affect on the service your job is worthless. If your job can be done by an iPod your job is not only worthless, it is superfluous.
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Old November 12, 2017, 02:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
What was/is the longest serving small arm
I'm not sure if it's considered a small arm - - but - -I was very surprised to learn that the Gatling gun was in service for 49 years.
From 1862 thru 1911.
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Old November 13, 2017, 08:54 AM   #15
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Probably the 1911.

I don't know enough about the .50 cals, but Brownings designs are going still going strong.
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Old November 13, 2017, 04:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
What was/is the longest serving small arm? I remember some of the M-2s were really old.
Or does anyone have a breakdown through the eras?
I’m sure that I could locate the information myself... but hey, there’s some knowledge here.
I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that the LONGEST serving small arm in the US military was the Springfield Trapdoor Rifle and it's carbine variants. Right after the War Between The States ended in 1866 and especially after the Fetterman Massacre where it was brought up in a court of inquiry about how the troopers' rifled muskets were too slow loading against native warriors armed with Spencers and Henrys, the US Dept. Of Ordnance arranged for thousands of Springfield 1861 rifled muskets to go through the Allin conversion, enabling them to use the .50-70 cartridge. THAT served the forces until 1873, when the rifle was officially manufactured and chambered in the .45-70. And right into the Spanish-American War, US troops were still using the Trapdoor against the Spanish who were primarily using bolt action Mausers and Arisakas. I have heard that the clouds of smoke given off by the big BP cartridges literally lit up the US lines and the Spanish artillery took a heavy toll on these. And only because of BP's shortcomings that the US later had to adopt smokeless powder. And about pistols, I think the 1911 was the longest serving. From 1905 all the way until now, where it is still carried by special operations units.

Quote:
But what make and model? "Muzzle loading long rifle" encompasses a lot
It started off with the Kentucky and Pennsylvania rifles, which really were hunting guns of extreme accuracy that could be found on the mantels of almost every frontier home and was the first thing that their owners grabbed when the call to arms came. It was sharpshooters like the ones led by Daniel "The Old Wagoner" Morgan that decimated the British at the battle of Saratoga. Muzzleloading smoothbores were primarily an infantry arm used by rank and file grunts doing the work of hammering blows and counterblows against the enemy in CONVENTIONAL battle. A great part of the Revolution, 1812, and the Indian conflicts were fought by irregulars, sharpshooters, private bands of warfighters and hunters who used home-built rifles and picked off the leaders of the enemy with long range aimed fire.

Quote:
I'm not sure if it's considered a small arm - - but - -I was very surprised to learn that the Gatling gun was in service for 49 years.
From 1862 thru 1911.
Actually it is still used on a WIDE scale today The miniguns ranging from the rifle-caliber ones mounted on Humvees and choppers to the giant ship-smashing behemoths found on the destroyers. Actually, EVERY large navy in the world has a Gatling system of some kind for land, sea and air use.
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Old November 13, 2017, 05:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal
...I was very surprised to learn that the Gatling gun was in service for 49 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachen
Actually it is still used on a WIDE scale today The miniguns ranging from the rifle-caliber ones mounted on Humvees and choppers to the giant ship-smashing behemoths found on the destroyers.
I'd extend Aguila Blanca's reasoning to this assertion as well; there's a VERY broad gulf between a .45-70 hand-cranked black powder weapon and an electrically-driven M61 Vulcan cannon or M134 Minigun. Pretty much the only thing they have in common is that they have multiple rifled barrels arranged around a central rotating axis.

Incidentally, I don't know what "ship-smashing behemoths" you're talking about—the ones mounted on ships are usually part of the Phalanx CIWS (Close In Weapons System) for shooting down incoming low-flying anti-ship missiles. The system uses the same basic 20mm M61 Vulcan cannons that are commonly mounted on aircraft. Various NATO navies have reportedly been (semi-secretly) working on reprogramming the Phalanx system to counter potential torpedo-boat "swarm attacks" in littoral areas, but this is a bit different than full-blown anti-shipping use.
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Old November 18, 2017, 03:38 AM   #18
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Ft McHenry event

I attended, (as a spectator) quite by default, an event at Ft McHenry in the early 80's that was a living history demo of U.S small arms through the years. From flintlock to M16, period re-enactors would run through a load, fire, reload and fire drill. (blanks of course) There was an intelligent and well done narrative running on the PA the whole time. It was done about dusk, so there was a good bit of flash too.

At the last, the entire cadre came out for a mad minute. One of the highlights of my career.

Free wine and cheese too.
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Old November 20, 2017, 11:27 AM   #19
Mike Irwin
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The M-16 series of rifles is the longest serving long arm in US service.

The M1911 is, of course, the longest serving small arm.
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Old November 25, 2017, 10:45 PM   #20
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Why leave out the beloved M-14? Our last real Rifle! The M-14, the G-3, and the magnificent FN-FAL are the finest 7.62NATO assault Rifles ever made! the FN-FAL like the AK will never go away! I wish that horrid little .223 toy Rifle would!!! Paul
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Old November 27, 2017, 08:12 AM   #21
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Sorry, Rachen, you're wrong.

The Trapdoor system of rifles (both conversions and designed) served as the primary military military arm from 1870 to 1892.

Prior to 1870 the Trapdoors were not standard issue; they were largely experimental/test rifles that were used to work out a variety of issues, such as if converting Model 1863 rifled muskets with barrel liners and a breech mechanism was effective (it wasn't).

I THINK that the Model of 1870 was the first Trapdoor Springfield to be made from the ground up as a new rifle, and I believe it was also the first Trapdoor model selected as the standard service arm.

The Trapdoor served as the primary military firearm in Army service only until 1892, when it was replaced by the Model 1892 Krag-Jorgenson.

The Trapdoor soldiered on in military service with Volunteer Forces (Spanish-American War), and state militias and guards until just before World War II (in some cases), but it wasn't the standard long arm.
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Old November 27, 2017, 02:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Sorry, Rachen, you're wrong.

The Trapdoor system of rifles (both conversions and designed) served as the primary military military arm from 1870 to 1892.
OK I concede

I was reading an article on Eugene Stoner this morning, and since it talked about the M-16/AR being designed as early as the late 1950s, baptized by fire in combat in the early 60s, and is issued today in multiple variants made by manufacturers too numerous to count, that means over 50 going on 60+ years of continuous service. OK THAT sure beats the 1870s-90s window by a pretty big margin.

And unlike the Trapdoor, which already was seeing it's twilight once smokeless powder became developed, there are a gazillion companies making the AR today, all cool guys MUST have at least one, the military is using it, and photos of US troops training Afghan/Iraqi forces show even A2s and A1s being used, only means that it is not just here to stay, but is gonna continue to grow. Whew, ok that is impressive!

Interesting thing about the Trapdoor though, a few days ago I was in a Suffolk County gunshop and a guy was in there talking about how he owned a Uberti repro M1873 Trapdoor. While he was chatting with the guys behind the counter I saw he had a box of GRIZZLY .45-70 ammo in one hand turning it around and around looking at it. Though I primarily use commercial BP/smokeless lead ammo and handloads, I know right off the bat that Grizzly means +P and high chamber pressure and that means absolutely NO for trapdoor actions. I told the guy that and he said "Are you sure?". I reply "Does it say -not for use in trapdoor actions- somewhere on the box?" Turns out, it is right there on the box.

Quote:
Incidentally, I don't know what "ship-smashing behemoths" you're talking about—the ones mounted on ships are usually part of the Phalanx CIWS (Close In Weapons System) for shooting down incoming low-flying anti-ship missiles. The system uses the same basic 20mm M61 Vulcan cannons that are commonly mounted on aircraft. Various NATO navies have reportedly been (semi-secretly) working on reprogramming the Phalanx system to counter potential torpedo-boat "swarm attacks" in littoral areas, but this is a bit different than full-blown anti-shipping use.
After seeing these systems in action with full speed fire, and the results of that fire, I could only say that anybody on the receiving end better pray to EVERY deity that existed in human history since the beginning of time for protection, cuz they' gonna need it. Even a thick-skinned combat vessel is going to like the result of a robot piranha swarm after getting a load of a battery of these things.

And just recently on CCTV 13 I was watching a Chinese PLA naval exercise and they unveiled a new, very high caliber rotary cannon system, possibly 40mm, on one of the newest destroyers of the fleet. It made a deep "thump thump thump" when it was being fired. Much slower rate than what NATO is using but I am sure that thing could be cranked up as well, and they were just literally shredding up a deserted island with it
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Old November 28, 2017, 07:54 AM   #23
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Oddly enough, regarding the Trapdoor, it did serve in Naval and Coast Guard service into the post WW II era...

As a line throwing gun.

https://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-...367/lot/135298

Blank ammunition was still being loaded in the middle of the War for these guns.

http://www.oldammo.com/august07.htm

As noted in the article, by WW II the Trapdoors were being phased out in favor of H&Rs based on their single shot shotgun action, but you will occasionally see photos of line throwing operations, especially on smaller, non combatant ships.
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