AR10 16" 308 to 600 yds: Which scope?

[dvdcrr]

Rifle is a semi auto AR10 style 16" 308. Want to shoot silhouettes for fun to 600 yds and hunt deer to 375 or so. Considering optics now. What would you pick? I was thinking about a scope with BDC knobs. Would you recommend the Leup. CDS system scopes as the best way to go?
I can go about $600 max on the scope. And would prefer as light as possible, but with at least 9 power. Suggestions appreciated!

[MarkCO]

Over your price point and weight, but look at the Burris XTRII 1-8. What I have on my 16".308 and I think it the best match to that platform on the market.

In your price range, I'd be looking at the Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10 ($450ish and 15 ounces) or the Burris Veracity 2-10x ($600 and 22 ounces). Those will be the most feature rich with good glass.

You could certainly just go for a mainline 3x9 hunting optic in the $300ish range, but that would slight your platform IMHO.

[dvdcrr]

Do you think the cds is a good system out to 600 on plinkers?

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by dvdcrr

Do you think the cds is a good system out to 600 on plinkers?

I have never actually used the Leupold CDS. However, I have used others. My problem with those is that they are for ONE muzzle velocity at ONE set of atmospheric conditions. 20F change in temp or 2000' change in altitude, you have a useless system.

I prefer a system where I can either dial or hold based on specific conditions, loads, etc. Even a BDC system, if it lines up perfect at one condition, I can recalibrate to the yardages those hash marks correspond to. With a blank vertical, kind of hard to do.

If you said you wanted to shoot to say 300 or 400 yards, then yes, the error would be small within a larger range and I would have no warnings against it.

[jmr40]

On a hunting rifle BDC type reticles are faster and easier to use. They may not be perfect, but will get your bullet impact within 3-4" at various ranges. It is a lot easier to compensate for 4" at 400 yards with a BDC reticle than 4' or more with a standard duplex reticle.

A scope with some type of dials is more precise, but takes longer. I wouldn't worry about having custom dials made. Find out what your MV is and enter the data into one of the online ballistics tables and print out a cheat sheet showing how many clicks you need for various ranges. If you really think you'll be using it at different altitudes and with enough atmospheric changes to matter then print off multiple cheat sheets. If you change loads, or move the scope to another rifle it is easy enough to recalculate.

Nothing wrong with a Leupold 3-9X40 scope for what you want to do. Either with long range dots or the CDS system. Even without external dials you can always twist dials on a conventional scope. You just have to remove the caps. If you're not going to be twisting a lot I'd consider that route with a BDC type scope. Use the dots for quick work and if you need precision at longer ranges take the cap off and twist the dials.

[dvdcrr]

Is there a cheat sheet generator (app?) does it really work?

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by dvdcrr

Is there a cheat sheet generator (app?) does it really work?

There are several. I use "Shooter" and then make a range card out to the distances at which I will shoot. I also tend to "refresh" my memory on the ballistics of the specific gun I will hunt with a few weeks before the hunt and so I will know all of my holds (or dials) out to about 500, even though I have them written down. On the rare occasion that I will take a shot past that, (big game or small game) I am usually using my Kestrel that has temperature sensitivity of my powder, trued MV, runs density altitude, and constantly updates for environmentals.

Shots past 500 are very rare, tricky and for most, just not a good idea. I literally shoot 1,000s of rounds of long range in competition and practice each year out to about 1200 yards. AR pattern .308 I hold to 400 yards max on Deer sized game.

[dvdcrr]

Well I impulse bought thisand would appreciate your thoughts:

http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/r...lam_multistop/
I bought for 450.00 on grabagun but this morning it is showing at 798.00.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by dvdcrr

Well I impulse bought thisand would appreciate your thoughts:

http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/r...lam_multistop/
I bought for 450.00 on grabagun but this morning it is showing at 798.00.

Two thoughts... 1. I don't do a thumbs up or down on gear I have not personally tried. 2. I really like to try new things, and that looks cool in some respects. Come back and update us on how it works for you.

[craddleshooter]

I would suggest a NF atacr, for a clear and accurate 600 yard range the atacr will give you an excellent vision.

[HiBC]

Forfree,you can go on Hornady's website and use their ballistic software.
They offer a printable cheat sheet of s small,useful size.
You can vary the parameters you input per youraltitude and the weather forecast.

I don't own an I-pod or smartphone, but there are ballistic apps.

I do not have a Leupold CDS scope.Leupold told me they are as precise and repeatable as target knobs. You get 15 MOA to play with.

I have mixed feelings about ballistic reticles. If we are talking boiler room shots ,IMO,the Boone and Crockett can be useful,but 600 yds is a stretch.The B+C combined with CDS gives you options.(And costs money)

I own the Pride-Fowler RR800 reticle in a fixed 10X scope. Kind of busy,very fine lines.Requires good light.I find it takes eye discipline/focus to use.

As Mark pointed out,it can only be "right" for one set of conditions with one load. I think the stakes matter some. A coyote is different than a once in a lifetime sheep hunt.

If you want to use a reticle for 600 yds,zero it at 500 or 600 yds. Use sofrware to minimize error.Verify your other ranges with targets.

Error will tend to minimize at shorter ranges.I'm saying if you zero at 600,the error at 200 may be acceptable,If you zero at 200,the error at 600 may be amplified to unacceptable.
,If your reticle is based on a 168 gr 308 at 2680 fps at sea livel,etc..in yards,it won't be right at 6000 ft.

But those marks will be right at SOME range maybe the 400 mark will be on at 450 yds.If you know that,you can work with it. Same with the wind lines. The 10 mph line might be correct at 12 mph. That's still useful.

Once you have all that dope figured out for your reticle under one set of conditions,you can use ballistic software to "warp it in" for a different set of conditions.

My eyes are getting old,cataracts,etc. Its hard to use the Rapid Reticle. I can do a Boone and Crockett,but I would not do a 600 yd game shot that way.
Maybe 400 on a confident day. Understand,a 250 yd prairie dog is usually a hit.I have luck shot PDs to 600 I had a lasered 1100 yd spot wher,for fun,I've shot some nice targets after a couple of spotters.They'd all be in the vitals of an elk,on a good day.But for myself,(not telling You how to live) I find the variables more manageable inside 400 yds. Inside 400 yds,a fairly flat shooting rifle,including a 308, is pretty manageable for trajectory.

Inside 400 yds,a Boone and Crockett can work well if you shoot it enough to sort it out.

For a minimal amount of ready ballistic info,you can write it on a paper plate with a marker,then used a photo copier to reduce it so it will fit in your ocular scope cap.

I don't evenknow what Leupold is making these days. My variX 3 2.5 to 8 Mildot and my 3.5 to 10 B+C have served me well.

[dvdcrr]

[dvdcrr]

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