Pre-1964 Model 70 264mag Need Advice - Page 2

RIDE-RED 350r · December 10, 2017, 04:01 PM

Thank you Dave Anderson for explaining that to me. I honestly did not know.

I love my Winnies but still have alot to learn about their heritage

To the OP: I say use it...but with a degree of discretion to keep her nice

I have two rifles that belonged to my uncle who passed much too young and one S&W model 19-3 that belonged to my dad who also passed much too young. Now these are not collectible as your model 70 is, but I take them out shooting and hunting frequently. Kind of like having them with me. I sit in the woods hunting with Dad's m19 on my lap looking at it, remembering all the fun we had with impromptu shooting contests, thinking about how that revolver was always on Dad's hip when we all went hunting. It is my most prized handgun and I would throw all the rest I own into a lake before letting Dad's go.

Dave Anderson · December 10, 2017, 05:55 PM

"I do agree with Slamfire's opinion that the trigger guard on the "online photo at the link" does not appear to be an original Model 70 trigger guard. Too, the stock appears to have more figure in it than even "upgraded" wood on Super Grades than usual." dgludwig

I think you are right on both points. Actually I should have looked at the photos a bit more carefully myself, I notice on second look that there is no Monte Carlo drop at heel, which one would expect on a factory Featherweight stock. Also the shaping of the wood around the receiver on the right side is a style more often seen on custom stocks.

Did a bit of searching online and found the exact photo from which the link was taken. The rifle is described by the owner as a custom by Griffin & Howe chambered for .358 Win. This would mean it couldn't be an original Featherweight Super Grade, since as I mentioned in an earlier post, Winchester never offered the Featherweight SG in .358. Looks to have a Griffin & Howe side mount.

Reminds me of one of my worst "kick myself" memories; two or three decades ago a dealer/collector offered me a pair of pre-war, Winchester 70 Super Grades in .300 and .375 H&H Magnums, $2,500 for the pair. Both had the Griffin & Howe side mount which may reduce collector value a little, but is nonetheless a very strong and practical mount. Anyway I passed them up, have often regretted doing so.

Dave Anderson · December 11, 2017, 12:13 PM

Aeterna, if you are still debating whether to hunt with this rifle, another consideration is ballistics. The 22" barrel of the pre-'64 Featherweight really cuts back .264 Mag. performance.

The Speer #9 loading manual (1974) had a section showing chronographed data of factory cartridges in various barrel lengths. Here's the data they show for W-W .264 Mag. ammo loaded with 140-gr. bullets: Factory claimed velocity: 3,200 fps. Chronographed, 26" barrel 3,139 fps; 24" barrel 3,077 fps; 22" barrel, 2,919 fps.

Using reloads in my .260 Rem. and 6.5x55 rifles (22" barrels) I easily get velocities of around 2,750 fps with 140 gr. bullets, with a lot less powder, muzzle blast, recoil, and much better barrel life. As another comparison a .270 Win. with 22" barrel is capable of 2,950 - 3,000 fps with 140 gr. bullets.

I have .264 Mag. model 70s with 24" and 26" barrels, like the cartridge, but must admit they are loud beasts. Never shot the cartridge in a 22" barrel but I imagine muzzle blast would be ferocious. My point is, setting aside collector value issues, I don't see this as a fun rifle to shoot and don't see the performance justifies the cost of ammunition, muzzle blast, recoil, or short barrel life.

Aeterna · December 11, 2017, 07:18 PM

Thanks for the information Dave, after reading all of this I think I will keep this rifle nice and clean using it on occasion. Especially when you take into consideration the cost of ammo.

And yes with the 22" barrel this thing looks and sounds like a canon, thats part of the fun.

December 10, 2017, 05:55 PM	#27
Dave Anderson Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Posts: 313	"I do agree with Slamfire's opinion that the trigger guard on the "online photo at the link" does not appear to be an original Model 70 trigger guard. Too, the stock appears to have more figure in it than even "upgraded" wood on Super Grades than usual." dgludwig I think you are right on both points. Actually I should have looked at the photos a bit more carefully myself, I notice on second look that there is no Monte Carlo drop at heel, which one would expect on a factory Featherweight stock. Also the shaping of the wood around the receiver on the right side is a style more often seen on custom stocks. Did a bit of searching online and found the exact photo from which the link was taken. The rifle is described by the owner as a custom by Griffin & Howe chambered for .358 Win. This would mean it couldn't be an original Featherweight Super Grade, since as I mentioned in an earlier post, Winchester never offered the Featherweight SG in .358. Looks to have a Griffin & Howe side mount. Reminds me of one of my worst "kick myself" memories; two or three decades ago a dealer/collector offered me a pair of pre-war, Winchester 70 Super Grades in .300 and .375 H&H Magnums, $2,500 for the pair. Both had the Griffin & Howe side mount which may reduce collector value a little, but is nonetheless a very strong and practical mount. Anyway I passed them up, have often regretted doing so. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/DavesGunVideos/videos

December 11, 2017, 12:13 PM	#28
Dave Anderson Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Posts: 313	Aeterna, if you are still debating whether to hunt with this rifle, another consideration is ballistics. The 22" barrel of the pre-'64 Featherweight really cuts back .264 Mag. performance. The Speer #9 loading manual (1974) had a section showing chronographed data of factory cartridges in various barrel lengths. Here's the data they show for W-W .264 Mag. ammo loaded with 140-gr. bullets: Factory claimed velocity: 3,200 fps. Chronographed, 26" barrel 3,139 fps; 24" barrel 3,077 fps; 22" barrel, 2,919 fps. Using reloads in my .260 Rem. and 6.5x55 rifles (22" barrels) I easily get velocities of around 2,750 fps with 140 gr. bullets, with a lot less powder, muzzle blast, recoil, and much better barrel life. As another comparison a .270 Win. with 22" barrel is capable of 2,950 - 3,000 fps with 140 gr. bullets. I have .264 Mag. model 70s with 24" and 26" barrels, like the cartridge, but must admit they are loud beasts. Never shot the cartridge in a 22" barrel but I imagine muzzle blast would be ferocious. My point is, setting aside collector value issues, I don't see this as a fun rifle to shoot and don't see the performance justifies the cost of ammunition, muzzle blast, recoil, or short barrel life. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/DavesGunVideos/videos

December 10, 2017, 04:01 PM	#26
RIDE-RED 350r Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2014 Posts: 425	Thank you Dave Anderson for explaining that to me. I honestly did not know. I love my Winnies but still have alot to learn about their heritage To the OP: I say use it...but with a degree of discretion to keep her nice I have two rifles that belonged to my uncle who passed much too young and one S&W model 19-3 that belonged to my dad who also passed much too young. Now these are not collectible as your model 70 is, but I take them out shooting and hunting frequently. Kind of like having them with me. I sit in the woods hunting with Dad's m19 on my lap looking at it, remembering all the fun we had with impromptu shooting contests, thinking about how that revolver was always on Dad's hip when we all went hunting. It is my most prized handgun and I would throw all the rest I own into a lake before letting Dad's go.

December 11, 2017, 07:18 PM	#29
Aeterna Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2017 Posts: 4	Thanks for the information Dave, after reading all of this I think I will keep this rifle nice and clean using it on occasion. Especially when you take into consideration the cost of ammo. And yes with the 22" barrel this thing looks and sounds like a canon, thats part of the fun.