Off use of a tumbler - Page 2

rox · December 6, 2018, 08:18 AM

If you're going to tumble live rounds, don't use one of these:

Midway Tumbler Fire

Tumbler Recall

"Midway Arms has received 13 reports of motors overheating and catching fire. "

These would not be the only instance of tumblers catching fire.

..

**Unclenick** · December 6, 2018, 11:56 AM

Sounds like good advice. Since tens of thousands were sold between '92 and '97, it seems reasonable to expect a few will have never been returned.

Roamin Wade,

Speed depends on the media and the type of tumbler (vibratory or rotary). IME, rotary tumblers and walnut media make for the slowest combination. A vibratory tumbler that is not overloaded and using Lyman's GREEN corncob and polish media is the fastest, and when it is new, an hour probably will take care of business. That gets longer as time goes by. Note, though, that you will get a more mirror polish using their slower RED media, which is the aforementioned walnut and rouge and is slower acting.

Roamin_Wade · December 6, 2018, 05:30 PM

Oh! 10-4 on that USSR. good info...

lordvader · December 6, 2018, 05:41 PM

NEGATIVE. You never want to tumble loaded ammunition. If it is only a few rounds get some cotton brass cleaner, and clean the rust off.

**Unclenick** · December 6, 2018, 05:43 PM

Wade,

The Nu-Finish leaves a protective layer to help keep the brass shiny. But if you want more polishing action, mix it into a slurry with diatomaceous earth powder and let the media tumble with it long enough to mix it in. Diatomaceous earth is the same abrasive used in toothpaste and as a filler in some foods. You can buy 5 lb bags of it at the garden store as an insect killer, though it is not toxic (the stuff at the garden store is actually food grade; it kills bugs mechanically by scraping off the waxy coating on their exoskeletons so they dehydrate and mummify on the go—and then stop going, of course).

Lordvader,

Read the rest of the thread. This really is tantamount to an old wive's tale unless you put the ammo in a rotary tumbler so big it can fall far enough for a pointed bullet nose to set off a primer. No tester has been able to degrade powder yet by tumbling in a handloader's brass cleaning tumbler, not even after over a week and a half of constant running.

Rangerrich99 · December 6, 2018, 06:52 PM

Not that I'm any kind of expert, and I certainly didn't spend much time researching the subject, but I remember when I first started reloading about 6 years ago, and someone asked a similar question here or on the other board I frequent, and decided that judicious tumbling couldn't hurt loaded ammo.

Since then, I've run at least 20,000 rounds, both pistol and rifle, through my vibratory tumbler, with no issues, except that I found that if I overloaded the tumbler with too much loaded ammo, the rounds didn't want to 'cycle' properly. I've been using primarily Lyman's walnut media w/ rouge for about 45 minutes per batch to get my cartridges nice and shiny.

I'm thinking Unclenick is correct, and the concern of tumbling live ammo is just a myth.

**Unclenick** · December 7, 2018, 09:40 AM

The only thing that makes it more than a simple myth is the industry people saying not to do it. But as explained previously, if they say it's OK, all they gain is liability should something unexpected go wrong. There's no upside for them, so, of course, they'll say no to it or most any other procedure that's not in the manuals as a standard reloading step.

USSR · December 7, 2018, 10:12 AM

While I'm in agreement that it's not going to hurt anything, it's not going to work well at all due to the weight of loaded shells causing them to bump along the bottom of a vibratory tumbler, and not move around through out the media like cases alone do. Very inefficient.

Don

hagar · December 7, 2018, 11:00 AM

I'm going against the grain, I do tumble loaded ammo, and I have been doing it for years and years with no ill effects. I won't leave them in for 10 hours, but about an hour or so with car polish is all it takes.

Tumblers do not vigorously shake things up and down, mine just has a rolling action.

But do not leave ammo in your car for an extended period, I had some 22/250 ammo loaded with Accurate 2460 that after 2 years of bouncing all over AZ's dirt roads started showing serious pressure signs. When I chronoed the load it was shooting 200 feet/sec faster than it should have.

rox · December 7, 2018, 12:15 PM

My brass goes into the tumbler for de-lubing with a perfect, clean flat cut case mouth. They come out with the mouth peppered with tiny dings from case collisions. It isn't a problem, but I wouldn't want my delicate, soft copper meplats to experience the same thing.

Rangerrich99 · December 7, 2018, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSR

it's not going to work well at all due to the weight of loaded shells causing them to bump along the bottom of a vibratory tumbler, and not move around through out the media like cases alone do. Very inefficient.

Don

[
Ah, this turns out not to be the case. I can positively attest to the fact that loaded .223 rem, .30-06, .44 mag/spl, 45 acp, 40 S&W, .357 mag, .38 spl, and 9mm roll from the bottom of the tumbler to the top and back down, just like unloaded brass, just a bit slower. At least so far after having done it to about 20,000 rds. They do not just sit on the bottom and vibrate, unless you overload your tumbler with cartridges.

Also, there's no issue with pitting, dings, nicks, etc. from tumbling loaded cartridges. At least up one hour. After that I can't say.

Of course, maybe I have the one magic Cabela's vibratory tumbler in the world. But it was on sale, so I doubt it.

USSR · December 7, 2018, 07:58 PM

Rich,

You must indeed have the magical vibratory tumbler.

Don

Rangerrich99 · December 7, 2018, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSR

Rich,

You must indeed have the magical vibratory tumbler.

Don

Oh well, that's good to know. Maybe I can get some money out of the thing then at the next gun show. I'll make up a sign, "Magic tumbler! Bidding starts at $500!!!"

I'm gonna be RICH I tell ya, RICH!

Nodak1858 · December 7, 2018, 09:34 PM

I have 0 issues with tumbling loaded rounds. A few years ago I loaded up rifle and pistol rounds with flake, ball and stick powder. All the cases well wet tumbled previously so were spotless inside and out. Then I tumbled them for a month straight. Each week I took one of the loaded with each powder and broke them down. At the end of the month the final rounds were tumbled for 730 hours straight, with no stopping at any time. All the cases were spotless, zero dust in any of them. No I'm not a scientist, or even stayed at a Holiday Inn but if a month shows no debris in the case from breaking down powder, a couple hours will be fine. Here's the link of my post.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=119371

Nodak1858 · December 7, 2018, 09:35 PM

Just looked and all the photos I had through Photobucket are gone in the thread, makes me not happy.

Rangerrich99 · December 8, 2018, 06:02 PM

Well heck. I guess that means I don't have a magic tumbler . . .

LE-28 · December 11, 2018, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Oh well, that's good to know. Maybe I can get some money out of the thing then at the next gun show. I'll make up a sign, "Magic tumbler! Bidding starts at $500!!!"

I'm gonna be RICH I tell ya, RICH!

Rich, that is just funny as hell!

I guess it may depend on what tumbler you have. I doubt Cabelas ever made anything in their existents.

I have a M2 Hornady which is their entry level model. It may not have enough poop to lift a loaded .308.
My .308s sunk and I never saw any sign of them again. It works really well with just empty cases. I guess that's what it was designed to do.
The better vibratory tumblers probably do a better job of lifting heavier rounds up and moving them around. I primarily use a rotary tumblerI built 30 years ago and I bought this vibratory on a whim.
But I like it.

Nodak1858 · December 12, 2018, 11:34 PM

A Thumlers Tumbler, made for rock polishing, will move loaded rounds just like empty brass. Tumbled a 1,000s of rounds of surplus 30-06 in my Ultra-vibe 18.

Grey_Lion · December 14, 2018, 07:31 PM

I'm wondering why anyone would risk this? known good cases and known good ammo is ALWAYS cheaper than medical bills and broken weapons.......

Roamin_Wade · December 17, 2018, 02:37 PM

Grey_Lion, bullets explode in a rather violent way already and actions are made to withstand at least 15% over charge just for the safety margin and they actually will withstand even more than that. I just yesterday watched a youtube video where this dude was shooting 50 BMG's out of his 12 gauge single shot.

December 6, 2018, 08:18 AM	#26
rox Member Join Date: October 4, 2012 Posts: 81	Don't tumble live rounds in one of these... If you're going to tumble live rounds, don't use one of these: Midway Tumbler Fire Tumbler Recall "Midway Arms has received 13 reports of motors overheating and catching fire. " These would not be the only instance of tumblers catching fire. ..

December 6, 2018, 11:56 AM	#27
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Sounds like good advice. Since tens of thousands were sold between '92 and '97, it seems reasonable to expect a few will have never been returned. Roamin Wade, Speed depends on the media and the type of tumbler (vibratory or rotary). IME, rotary tumblers and walnut media make for the slowest combination. A vibratory tumbler that is not overloaded and using Lyman's GREEN corncob and polish media is the fastest, and when it is new, an hour probably will take care of business. That gets longer as time goes by. Note, though, that you will get a more mirror polish using their slower RED media, which is the aforementioned walnut and rouge and is slower acting. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 6, 2018, 05:43 PM	#30
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Wade, The Nu-Finish leaves a protective layer to help keep the brass shiny. But if you want more polishing action, mix it into a slurry with diatomaceous earth powder and let the media tumble with it long enough to mix it in. Diatomaceous earth is the same abrasive used in toothpaste and as a filler in some foods. You can buy 5 lb bags of it at the garden store as an insect killer, though it is not toxic (the stuff at the garden store is actually food grade; it kills bugs mechanically by scraping off the waxy coating on their exoskeletons so they dehydrate and mummify on the go—and then stop going, of course). Lordvader, Read the rest of the thread. This really is tantamount to an old wive's tale unless you put the ammo in a rotary tumbler so big it can fall far enough for a pointed bullet nose to set off a primer. No tester has been able to degrade powder yet by tumbling in a handloader's brass cleaning tumbler, not even after over a week and a half of constant running. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 7, 2018, 09:40 AM	#32
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	The only thing that makes it more than a simple myth is the industry people saying not to do it. But as explained previously, if they say it's OK, all they gain is liability should something unexpected go wrong. There's no upside for them, so, of course, they'll say no to it or most any other procedure that's not in the manuals as a standard reloading step. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 7, 2018, 10:12 AM	#33
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	While I'm in agreement that it's not going to hurt anything, it's not going to work well at all due to the weight of loaded shells causing them to bump along the bottom of a vibratory tumbler, and not move around through out the media like cases alone do. Very inefficient. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

December 6, 2018, 05:30 PM	#28
Roamin_Wade Junior member Join Date: July 11, 2018 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 220	Oh! 10-4 on that USSR. good info...

December 6, 2018, 05:41 PM	#29
lordvader Member Join Date: September 30, 2015 Posts: 86	NEGATIVE. You never want to tumble loaded ammunition. If it is only a few rounds get some cotton brass cleaner, and clean the rust off.

December 6, 2018, 06:52 PM	#31
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	Not that I'm any kind of expert, and I certainly didn't spend much time researching the subject, but I remember when I first started reloading about 6 years ago, and someone asked a similar question here or on the other board I frequent, and decided that judicious tumbling couldn't hurt loaded ammo. Since then, I've run at least 20,000 rounds, both pistol and rifle, through my vibratory tumbler, with no issues, except that I found that if I overloaded the tumbler with too much loaded ammo, the rounds didn't want to 'cycle' properly. I've been using primarily Lyman's walnut media w/ rouge for about 45 minutes per batch to get my cartridges nice and shiny. I'm thinking Unclenick is correct, and the concern of tumbling live ammo is just a myth.

December 7, 2018, 11:00 AM	#34
hagar Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2000 Location: Colombia, SC Posts: 745	I'm going against the grain, I do tumble loaded ammo, and I have been doing it for years and years with no ill effects. I won't leave them in for 10 hours, but about an hour or so with car polish is all it takes. Tumblers do not vigorously shake things up and down, mine just has a rolling action. But do not leave ammo in your car for an extended period, I had some 22/250 ammo loaded with Accurate 2460 that after 2 years of bouncing all over AZ's dirt roads started showing serious pressure signs. When I chronoed the load it was shooting 200 feet/sec faster than it should have. __________________ I don't have time for busy people

December 7, 2018, 12:15 PM	#35
rox Member Join Date: October 4, 2012 Posts: 81	My brass goes into the tumbler for de-lubing with a perfect, clean flat cut case mouth. They come out with the mouth peppered with tiny dings from case collisions. It isn't a problem, but I wouldn't want my delicate, soft copper meplats to experience the same thing.

December 7, 2018, 07:58 PM	#37
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Rich, You must indeed have the magical vibratory tumbler. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

December 7, 2018, 09:34 PM	#39
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	I have 0 issues with tumbling loaded rounds. A few years ago I loaded up rifle and pistol rounds with flake, ball and stick powder. All the cases well wet tumbled previously so were spotless inside and out. Then I tumbled them for a month straight. Each week I took one of the loaded with each powder and broke them down. At the end of the month the final rounds were tumbled for 730 hours straight, with no stopping at any time. All the cases were spotless, zero dust in any of them. No I'm not a scientist, or even stayed at a Holiday Inn but if a month shows no debris in the case from breaking down powder, a couple hours will be fine. Here's the link of my post. http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=119371 __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true. Last edited by Nodak1858; December 7, 2018 at 11:07 PM.

December 7, 2018, 09:35 PM	#40
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Just looked and all the photos I had through Photobucket are gone in the thread, makes me not happy. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

December 8, 2018, 06:02 PM	#41
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	Well heck. I guess that means I don't have a magic tumbler . . .

December 12, 2018, 11:34 PM	#43
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	A Thumlers Tumbler, made for rock polishing, will move loaded rounds just like empty brass. Tumbled a 1,000s of rounds of surplus 30-06 in my Ultra-vibe 18. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

December 14, 2018, 07:31 PM	#44
Grey_Lion Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2018 Location: Baton Rouge - Louisiana Posts: 407	I'm wondering why anyone would risk this? known good cases and known good ammo is ALWAYS cheaper than medical bills and broken weapons.......

December 17, 2018, 02:37 PM	#45
Roamin_Wade Junior member Join Date: July 11, 2018 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 220	Grey_Lion, bullets explode in a rather violent way already and actions are made to withstand at least 15% over charge just for the safety margin and they actually will withstand even more than that. I just yesterday watched a youtube video where this dude was shooting 50 BMG's out of his 12 gauge single shot.