.22 LR dilemma

[Aguila Blanca]

This is a bit off the beaten track, but here goes. I want to make up a batch of dummy .22LR cartridges. I have plenty of fired cases, and I have a source for heeled .22 bullets (they're actually a bit short, so my dummies will in reality emulate .22 Long, not .22 Long Rifle). So far, so good.

I don't have anything remotely resembling a seating die for .22LR. I've been trying to get the bullets started just a little bit and then use a vise to seat -- and it ain't workin'. The bullet always gets cocked just a little bit off axis.

Any suggestions?

[SHR970]

Are you willing to spend the $ and chop up a couple dies and / or do some custom work?

You need a flaring die or rod. Hand seat the heel based bullet. You will need a modified Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp the bullet. One for 221 / 22 Hornet or 22 TCM cut down should do the trick.

[HisSoldier]

A company makes a .22 LR sizing die.
https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...m/products/die

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HisSoldier

A company makes a .22 LR sizing die.
https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...m/products/die

Thanks. Yes, I've seen that. But it's a sizing die, not a seating die. And I'm not about to spend $65 (plus tax and shipping) to make up a dozen or so dummy cartridges. If it comes to that, I'll fire up the hobby lathe and buy a length of brass rod.

[5whiskey]

If you have access to aluminum or brass block at least 1.5” thick, drill a 7/32” Hole through. Stand casing up on a table, place block over it with case in the hole, then drop your bullet in. Use a rod and mallet to gently tap in the projectile. Sounds like it should work. And a block of aluminum should be cheap and drill easy enough.

[44 AMP]

I've never looked but can you get .22LR snap caps??

Since you want dummy rounds, I'll assume they are going to be chambered quite a few time. If that's the case, and you can't get snap caps, then I think you would be better served firing up the hobby lathe and making solid dummies from brass or aluminum.

.22LR is not a very durable round, repeated chambering (like using dummies for function checks, etc) can easily loosen the heel bullet in the case, so it tips, or gets bent or comes out.

Another possible solution is to glue a bullet in a fired case. Might last long enough to be useful, and its easily done.

Good luck

[hounddawg]

I can think of a couple of solutions

1. If you want to use the heeled bullets use a small center punch to gently flare the case. https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-117C...JZ6YTT6JX1S9XW

2. pull a bullet from a live round and seat that. I can do it by holding the case in one hand while pulling the bullet with a pair of needle nose. Just pulled 3 that way to see if it worked. It was easy, I then reseated all 3 three in the same manner just to see how easy they went in

[LeverGunFan]

5whiskey has the best idea, you may even be able to substitute a piece of hardwood such as maple or oak for the loading block.

Note that A-Zoom does make 22 LR dummy rounds for action proving. They are made from aluminum, are anodized blue and are sold in packs of either 6 or 12 rounds. They are different than the orange plastic snap caps that Lyman also sells.

[TX Nimrod]

Or, the OP could just get these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014VVHT2..._U-voFbK634BSK

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...prod54831.aspx




.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by TX Nimrod

Or, the OP could just get these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014VVHT2..._U-voFbK634BSK

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...prod54831.aspx

I have those. There are a couple of reasons why I want real dummy rounds.

1. With those aluminum thingies, if someone dry fires them once of twice, the rim gets destroyed. They are "action proving dummies," they are not snap caps.

2. The reason I want dummy rounds is that in my classes I pass around baggies of cartridges of different designations to show that "caliber" by itself doesn't define what cartridge fits in a firearm. So, for example, .45 ACP, ,45 Colt, .45 Schofield, and .44 Colt Original. Or .30-30, .30 Carbine, .308, and .30-06.

So I want a set that includes .22 CB cap, .22 Short, .22 Long (and/or Long Rifle), .22 Magnum, and .223. (I suppose I should find someone who loads .22 Hornet and ask for a few dummies of that, too.) The blue aluminum dummies just don't make the point as effectively as a real dummy cartridge.

[Edit to add] I suppose I should try to include .22 WRF and .22 Winchester Auto, as well.

[Mike38]

Could you put live rounds in a small display container such as jewelry comes in and seal the lid closed? Pass the container around with all the various caliber types side by side, but the lid glued shut so it can't be opened? Dumb idea?

[Aguila Blanca]

Mike38 -

Not a dumb idea, but technically a violation of the NRA rule: "No live ammunition in the classroom." Between that and Murphy's Law, I don't want to go that route.

[Pahoo]

o I want a set that includes .22 CB cap, .22 Short, .22 Long (and/or Long Rifle), .22 Magnum, and .223. (I suppose I should find someone who loads .22 Hornet and ask for a few dummies of that, too.) The blue aluminum dummies just don't make the point as effectively as a real dummy cartridge.

There are dummy rounds and snap caps in different pistol and rifle calibers. I use the same "Training-Aids" in our classes. Not sure about the CB-Caps. Ya just have to go shopping for them. I do know that some of ours, were made by Winchester. I'll be sending you a link on "one" source so look for an update ..

https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/c...ing-Cartridges

Be Safe !!!

[Aguila Blanca]

Problem solved. Thanks for your suggestions, Gentlemen -- they got my brain off the mark and moving in the right direction.

I had never considered exactly how .22 rimfire ammo is assembled but, upon close examination, it appears that they use a roll crimp. That's completely logical and most of you probably already knew that, but I didn't. Now I do. So what I needed wasn't a seating die, but a flaring (or de-crimping) die.

So I scrounged around and came up with a length of 1/4" steel rod. I lopped off a piece about 3 inches long, chucked it in the drill press, and used a combination of grinding and filing to put a 60-degree taper on one end, tapering down to small enough to easily fit inside the mouth of a fired .22LR case. Using that and a light (maybe 8-ounce?) ball pein hammer, it was just a matter of tapping my flaring tool in far enough to allow the bullets to start. Once there, I used a small bench vise to press them home. I did a set of six. One got flared a bit too much and the bullet is slightly loose. If it falls out, I'll Super Glue it in place.

If anyone else feels masochistic and wants to pursue the same project, the source for the bullets is North American Arms:

https://northamericanarms.com/shop/parts/cbb2/

They're sold for cap and ball firearms, but they are heeled bullets. They sell them in packs of 50, 100, or 250 bullets. They're all 30-grain bullets, which are too short to be .22 Long Rifle. They're closer to what's used in .22 Short, .22 Long, and some of the hyper-velocity Long Rifle loadings.

I suppose to replicate CB caps I could load up another set and then grind the bullets down to the CB cap profile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_CB

[BJung]

My idea might take some work.

Have you thought about making silicon molds of your .22lr cartridges? After the mold is made, you can use whatever plastic you choose including glue gun sticks. You can color the glue gun glue with food coloring. You can even make .38 dummy rounds.

I'd guess that you can make the molds from glue gun sticks too and then coat them with oil so the glue won't stick to the mold. If you're teaching, these glue gun sticks make great plastic bullets. Just inject them into your mold and pop them out. Watch out though, the primer can push the glue gun bullets through a cardboard box.

[Aguila Blanca]

Bringing this back for a new but related question:

I found a source for heeled .22LR bullets pretty much by accident a few years ago. Now, for purposes of making up sets of dummies, those bullets are invaluable. But I also want some .22 WMR dummies, and while I'm at it I may as well also do .22 WRF and .22 WRA.

Does anyone know of a source for non-heeled .22 bullets that are about the right weight and profile for those rounds?

[Geezerbiker]

I have some of those that I've been loading in my Hornet. If I can find them again (my gun room is a mess right now, I could send you a few...

Tony

[aarondhgraham]

Pull the bullet from a live round.
Detonate the primer in the revolver.
Insert the bullet back in the cartridge and epoxy it in.

Easy-Peasy.

Aarond

.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

Pull the bullet from a live round.
Detonate the primer in the revolver.
Insert the bullet back in the cartridge and epoxy it in.

That option is certainly under consideration. There are certain factors in play that make it a less than desirable option, but it is possible.

[SHR970]

40 gr. or 45 .223 diameter Hornet bullets are as close as you are going to get unless you disassemble 22 WMR cases.

[Aguila Blanca]

Here's a sketch of what I'm hoping to create. This is the one for .22 caliber cartridges. Obviously, there are a lot more, but this should be enough to drive home the point that there's more to "twenty-two" than just the bullet diameter.



In order:

.22 Short
.22 Long
.22 Long Rifle
.22 Winchester Automatic
.22 Winchester Rimfire
.22 Magnum
.22 Hornet
.223 Remington / 5.56x45

[Pahoo]

Very nice collection and what happened to the CB-Cap? How are you going to present/display them?

Be Safe !!!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Pahoo

Very nice collection and what happened to the CB-Cap? How are you going to present/display them?

I would have to find a way to make CB caps. I don't have any, and they aren't that readily available. I don't know if I care to spend the money to buy a box just to tear them apart to make dummies. And most newbie students have probably never heard of CB caps anyway, so it's not like they'll miss them.

My other option would be to make .22 Long dummies and grind down the bullets to the profile of a CB cap. Again, I don't know if it's worth the time and effort.

Plus -- I'll need larger boxes. That outline is the outline of the box of boxes I bought from Amazon. They came in a package of 24 boxes, of which I might use six or so -- if I make up sets for myself and for a couple of instructor friends. They are available in a couple of larger sizes, but I'm not ready at the moment to shell out for another batch that will mostly be unused.

These are the boxes: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm still researching how to hold the cartridges in the boxes. I'll try adhesive dots. If that doesn't work, I'll try double-stick foam tape.

Once I have sets made up for handgun calibers, I'll move on to the .22 centerfire rifle chamberings, and then .30 caliber rifle cartridges.

[Scorch]

Why not these?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Why not these?

Because they don't look like the real thing, which defeats the purpose of showing a comparative line-up of real (dummy) cartridges.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg