loading for accuracy

[highrider_44s]

hey guys just a few questions regarding loading for my 30-06
i am still verry new to this so bare with me here
The barrel on my 30-06 is a custom one it has a 9-1 twist and is 25.5" long
(measured to where the bearel screws into the action)
I was wandering how much of a difference to expect in preassure and max loads compared to a shorter barrel and a 10 -1 twist.

can someone enlighten me on the advatages/disadvatages to having a barrel
like that?

i was also wandering how you guys normally work your way to a most accurate load. I was loading in .5 grain difference and did notice a difference between loads but do you guys load to the .01 grain difference?


dan

[rgitzlaff]

I wouldn't worry about pressures or max loads. Those things have nothing to do with twist or barrel length. A longer barrel like you have will increase the velocity, but that's it. As far as load increments, I haven't done that yet, but plan to use 0.2 grain increments after I get my 7mm back with Hart barrel installed.

Ryan

[918v]

Not enough difference in twist to chamge pressures.

If you have a match chamber with dimentions tighter than factory, pressures will surely increase. That is why you should always start low and work-up.

The longer barrel may or may not give you an increase in velocity. Some short barrels shoot faster than some long barrels. It depends on bore dimentions and twist.

[SDLAW]

This is how I develope a load for a given powder and bullet.

I determine maximum length of cartridge with the bullet touching the lands then set the bullet back .005. I next check to see if the loaded shell will fit the magazine, if not set the bullet back until it does. (I load for hunting and want more than one shot). The amount of freebore your gun has may not allow you to touch the lands with enough of the bullet in the case neck to hold it properly. If so set the bullet deep enough to hold properly (rule of thumb...1 bullet diameter). Whichever maximum length works in your gun is the starting point.

Using the appropiate manual, I determing the starting load by looking at a low midrange charge and working from there in .5 grain increments up or down never exceeding the max load published and looking for pressure signs along the way. Once the most accurate load is determined, I adjust seating depth .005 at a time, once again looking for the best group. Further fine tuning is done in .2 grain increments and .002 seating depth adjustments. Only adjust one variable at a time. I shoot three shot groups while working up a load then check it with a couple 5 shot groups. If I don't get the accuracy I'm looking for I will then change components one at a time starting with primers, then powders, then bullets using the same procedures.

There are as many different ways to work up a load as there are reloaders, but this works for me.

[Art Eatman]

What's been learned during the last fifty years is that shorter, fatter cartridge cases give more efficient burning of the powder. The old '06 is somewhat overbore, so it benefits from a longer barrel. My pet '06 has a 26" barrel. That's roughly a 300 ft/sec advantage over a 22" barrel for a given load.

I've been pretty lazy about experimenting with different powders and loads. I discovered years ago that my uncle's advice worked: Most any 150-grain bullet and IMR 4064. I've been using Sierra bullets for some 25 years, although the Hornady and the Remington Bronze Points work quite well for group size and deer killing. I've mostly used the SPBT, although that bullet will come apart if Bambi is close up. It works better for velocities below some 2,800 ft/sec. Flat base, no problem. Thicker jacket.

I commonly get three-shot groups around 3/4 MOA.

A 1:10 twist would be fine for 110-grain through 165-grain, I think. 180-grain and longer, the groups might not be as tight. 1:9 would handle the range of weights above 110-grain, guessing 125- to 220-grain. In general, the '06 is pretty forgiving about twist rates...

Art

Art

[30Cal]

I do initial development in 1.0gr increments using design of experiments so that I can very all sorts of things at once. I'll usually check 0.3gr increments to fine tune.

[Superhornet]

ART E---------I am surprised...I was beginning to think that I was the only guy in the states who used and still does the Remington Bronze Point....I have had some very good deer taken with it....

[qajaq59]

I start at the recommended load in the manuals and then go up .5 gr at a time. I load 5 rounds of each, shoot 3 of the 5 and then go back and shoot the other two after all the groups of 3 are done.
After that then I change the best 1 or 2 of the bunch by .01 at a time. Does that make a big difference? Probably, but I'd be hard pressed to prove it. But I was taught that way 40+ years ago and I just never changed.
Usually I will get to the most accurate load before I get to the max, and if I don't, then I start over with some other powder. I never go over max. Some guys do, but I'm just not one of them.
Also when I finally get that great load I'll put 20 in a box, mark it and then go find a different bullet and start all over, but I just happen to like working up loads for my rifles.

[highrider_44s]

that all great advice guy thanks.
So far this is the first load i've been working on i was loading two powders and compairing but now i'm down too the one h4350 and at 55g seems to be the best so far but i also loaded that up in .05 g and the group opened up then started to close again i got to within .05 of the max load. You could definatly feel the increase in the kick once i got the load up near the max .

OK here's another q what is the MOA comparable to in measurment and what does it stand for?

I think i need to do some more testing

[brickeyee]

"55g seems "

Are you weighing in grams (g) or grains (gr)??

[Bullet94]

MOA stands for minute of angle. Someone will give you the exact measurement but 1 inch per 100 yards is close. So at 100 yards 1 MOA = 1 inch, at 200 yards 1 MOA = 2 inch etc.

[amamnn]

What degree of accuracy are you shooting for? A lot of people feel they only need to conistently put a bullet in a brisket sized target at 100 yards or less. Others are looking for sub-MOA performance out to 600 yards or more on windy day at Camp Perry, or to hit a prarie dog in the eye at 500 yards. These days, the former is pretty cheap and easy to get; the latter is going to entail a little more work and investment.

[918v]

Unless you are loading 220gr. bullets, H4350 is way too slow of a powder. Use IMR 4350 for complete combustion. Your 45 grain load doesn't even hit 49000 PSI with 180gr bullets.

[highrider_44s]

ah sorry 55 grains

thanks for the run down on the "moa" bullet94


as for the degree of accuacy not really to sure i mean all the loads i've loaded so far have been about 1.5 -2moa and no bigger that 4 moa
the one load i tested I shot first one dead on then the nex shot was about 1.2moa lower, then the next one split paper with the first then after i was done testing all the other loads i went back and shot two more both spliting paper with eachother about 1 moa to the right.

I'm not really sure what I'd like to achieve for accuracy I still haven't learned what to expect for certian guns so far i just want to see how accurate my rifle can be.

Do you guys have any tip's on things to look for or to measure on the rifle to kind of give me a idea of how capable the rifle could be?

I was thinking about sluging the barrel? is this a good idea and what kind of measurments should i be looking for? it's a 30-06

[918v]

OOPS,

I meant to say 55 grains. H4350 is too slow for 30-06. It is inefficient.

[Bullet94]

I wouldn’t slug your barrel. I’d work on your ammo. What bullets are you shooting? What dies are you using? What cases are you using? Do you want your ammo to feed from your mag or single feed (trying to reach the lands)?

[highrider_44s]

so far I'm using 165gr hornady spbt with h4350 and win cases with cci primers.
I got rbcs dies and i'v only been neck sizing

i didn't have to bad of results with the h4350 but that's the first one i tryed i was thinking of trying h414 next? but maby i'll try the imr 4350

When you have a longer barrel should you look for a slower burning powder or should you add more of a faster powder?

[Bullet94]

I don’t have a 30/06 so I don’t know which powder to recommend, but I believe with your twist you probably need heavier bullets. You might look at Sierra Match Kings. Winchester brass is probably good enough, but Lapua is great. I believe better bullets would make a difference. Once you find a powder (type and amount) that works the best try adjusting bullet seating depth.

[918v]

It is not the barrel length, but the relationship of the bore size with the case itself. For example, a 22-06 will do well with H1000, but a 30-06 won't because there won't be enough resistance to induce complete combustion with that powder.

H4350 is the slowest of the three 4350's. AA4350 and IMR4350 are faster burning, one being faster than the other depending on the application. In the 30-06 AA4350 is ideal, giving 100% combustion and 100% case fill at 55000 PSI. IMR is second, giving 98% of each. In contrast, H4350 gives you 92% combustion and 95% case fill at 55 grains. This load generates 45000 PSI, and is just crappy. You must remember that rounds have power bands like engines. A round is happy in a certain pressure range, jus like your engine is happy in a certain RPM range.

I have been using this rule for a couple of years, and it has cut my load development by 75%. I don't have powder sloshing around in my case, I get top velocities, and the pressure is in check. I always find a half-inch load by playing around with primers and bullet seating depth.

H414/Win760 will be similar to H4350. If you want good ball, get Ramshot Hunter, as it will behave like IMR 4350. H380 would be my next choice- 98%/97%.

Keep 4350 for when you want to play with 220 grain bullets, or when you get a Short Mag.

[Jim Watson]

Where do you get these magic percentages for matching up powders?

[918v]

Math



Well... I'm not that smart, so I used Quickload.

[highrider_44s]

so you feel that imr 4350 would be the next best choice?

I also have some federal brass is that any better than win If so whats the dif is it in the metal properties?

[amamnn]

For what it's worth, I load my 30-06 with 168 Sierra matchkings almost exactly to the accuray load in the current Sierra manual which is 51.9 grains of 760, Federal Brass, Federal GM210m primers. I have used Alliant powders Reloader 15 and 19, and found them to be ok, I was not impressed with the Hodgon pwders I used. I still like to experiment, but for serious shooting I'm using the 760 until and unless I can find something better.
I've used Hornady bullets in the past and they were ok. I don't have my new Hornady manual yet, it's in the mail, so I don't know what the best load is for the bullet you are using.
I do know one thing. Over the years, I've noticed that the loads the bullet manufacturers list as most accurate in their manuals are pretty close to what's most accurate for my rifles. Therefore I think buying the manuals is certainly worthwhile. Those folks get to test a lot more rounds with a lot more powders and etc. than I do, so I am willing to make use of their hard work to get a starting point for my loads.

[918v]

Actually, I'd pick AA4350 because it is 100%/100%, but either would work fine. I like AA 'cause I also use their 4064. Their powders are new. IMR is old and more sensitive to temperature fluctuation. IMR, however, has a history of producing superb accuracy in semi-auto match rifles.

Federal brass is softer than Winchester, and I think it is easier to work with in terms of bullet seating. Winchester necks are stiff and my dies mark the bullet noses considerably when seating. I actually prefer Federal, but you can't get it in bulk. Remington has the softest necks, then Federal, then Norma, then Lapua, then Winchester.

Federal is not good for repeared firings at 60+ KPSI. Primer Pockets open up faster than Winchester. If you stay in the mid 50's, then it probably won't make any difference.

[highrider_44s]

is that aa 4350 for the 165 gr bullet ?
or should i switch to 180gr bullets

also is there a construction design of a rifle that tells you if the rifle will like a boat tail over a regular bullet? cause i think i want to try nosler partitions for a hunting load