Need help going Progressive (handgun only)

[Nick_C_S]

Lots of good conversation and varying opinions. When I submitted the OP, I didn't expect much reply.

I define a turret press as one that the dies are mounted on a turret - not the cases. AND, only one die is engaged during the press stroke. That would seem to be a pretty straight forward definition. Heh, we'll see. Nothing surprises me here.

My Dillon BL 550 came late yesterday afternoon. I got it mounted on the bench atop a strongmount (nice assessory, btw). The first toolhead I set up was the 38 Special case reconditioning. I tried two configurations. The first was a universal decap, then the resize (decap pin removed), and then the flair die. This worked well, but the universal decap die tended to fling the primers so hard the catcher couldn't restrain about 1 in 5, or so. So I took it out and just used a two die system. The resize/decap die would still fling the occasional spent primer, but only about 1 in 10 or so. (On my single stage, about 1 in 20 go flying onto the floor.) I can live with 1 in 10, I guess.

I intentionally left 250 cases vibra tumbled and ready for reconditioning for the new press. Once I worked on my ergonomics and got myself into rhythm, I got them banged out in no time. After 31 years of doing it in two sequences on a single stage, it felt odd when I was finished in one. I felt like I needed to run them through one more time with the second die, but it was already done. Ready for SS pin tumbling with just one trip through the press. A different feeling for me.

Then I set up another toolhead for the loading side of things (38 Special - 148 lead DEWC, 2.9gns Bullseye.). I set up the stations as a seat, taper crimp, and then a Lee FCD with the crimp mechanism disengaged - i.e., its only purpose is to remove case O.D. anomalies that may rarely occur. Basically, I just put in the FCD because I can. I loaded 100 rounds and it went smooth, fast, and easy.

This is going to be a busy weekend for me, all my brass is prepped, and I have tons of ammo loaded. Point is, it'll be a while before I have any need (or time) to get back to it. But the 550 is all set up and ready to go. It works exactly to my expectations and will save me lots of press stokes and time. I'm happy.

[BigJimP]

Good to hear you like the press...and its meeting or exceeding all your expectations...!

[Nick_C_S]

I really do like it BigJimP. I think it was somewhere in this long string where someone said "When you think progressive, you think Dillon."

I agree.

I'm a diehard RCBS guy, but this Dillon - this very dressed down unit - is built really nice. There's nothing "cheap" about it. It feels good and solid when you use it - tight tolerances, etc. Well made.

[BigJimP]

For what its worth ...about 70% of the guys that I know, that reload, all use Dillon equipment...but they're split between the SDB, the 550 and the 650...but most of them, if they were to invest in a new press today would go with the 650 because of the powder check die option.

However, I also think the big name companies making reloading equipment for center fire handguns and rifles... especially Dillon, Hornaday and RCBS are all making good solid equipment....how each of the models handles priming is different...but all of them have pros and cons...and Dillon's equipment, while I have used it for over 20 yrs now, is not without some quirks as well.

Its been a good discussion ...take care / happy loading - and safe shooting.

[McCarthy]

How is it going Nick? Pictures or it didn't happen

[Nick_C_S]

Yes, it happened. And yes, it's going well. The Dillon 550 is doing exactly what I need it to do; and as I anticipated.

It doesn't auto index (I don't want auto-indexing). And it only has four stations (I only need three). I brass recondition in one session; and then load in another. Brass reconditioning and ammunition loading are two different things in my mind; and I rather doubt that I'll ever be able to mentally merge the two. If I thought that I were ever able to make that mental merger, then I would have bought the Dillon 650. Some would say my process defeats the purpose of having a progressive - and that's okay. But it saves me a lot of time and ram strokes; yet, I still get to keep the critical control processes I hold dear. And that's perfect for me. I'm glad I made the investment.

Oh yeah, the pic:

[McCarthy]

Your workflow makes absolutely sense. My brass prep routine is exactly the same, I will not put dirty primer holes / brass in any of my presses. Call it OCD, perfectionism, whatever. That’s why my 1050 still didn’t make it on the bench.

[tedbeau]

The Hornady progressive press has quick change bushing so you put your Decapping/sizing die and Flare die in, then clean your brass in the SS pins, hand measure your powder and then quickly change to Bullet seating die and the Crimp die. All this with out every having to readjust any of the dies.

That's what's so great about the Hornady setup. Take your dies out, put in another type or caliber and not have to readjust anything. I still do check the overall length and the crimp every time I remove and re-set them but it never changes.

[Nick_C_S]

tedbeau: I have separate toolheads for brass prep and loading. I just swap out the toolheads. It's very fast.

[DaleA]

Glad it's working out for you.

I suspect you'll agree Dillon makes a quality product. (I'm an RCBS guy but give credit where credit is due.)

I'm still an advocate of the way I think BigJimP reloads but again that's where we can agree to disagree. Like a friend of mine says, 'That's why Baskin Robbins makes more than one flavor.'

Good luck.

P.S. Thanks for the (good) pictures.

[Nick_C_S]

I'm an RCBS guy but give credit where credit is due.

My sentiments exactly. If RCBS made a similar product, I probably would have bought that. But the Pro 2000 is more progressive than I need. Of course, there's no doubt Dillon makes fine (probably the best) progressives - it's the only other make I considered.

Like a friend of mine says, 'That's why Baskin Robins makes more than one flavor.'

That's good. ^^ I'm gonna use that.

[oldmanFCSA]

This has been an interesting read, all of it.

I reload a lot of my ammo across a RCBS RockChucker, and I have Dillon's that could be used for same, but it all depends on the quality and the quantity I desire which determines which setup I use.

My shop is my reloading shop now, 34X48 heated, plus junk storage I seem to accumulate.

My reloading bench has been made to allow for wheel chair access which is bound to happen considering the condition of my legs, though I'm fighting that issue.

I have a 12 foot long bench and a separate 4 foot bench. The following pic only shows half of the 12' bench, the other end has Dillons and Lee presses. Lee press dedicated to de-capping with modified linkage for quicker operation.


I deprime all brass before washing in SS Pins. For my MATCH loadings, I wash again in SS Pins just prior to loading. I lube insides of necks with graphite prior to seating 808 grain brass solids for 50BMG Match rounds.

All other rounds are also washed in SS Pins after depriming, but sprayed with lanolin mix just prior to loading. Dried lanolin will not affect powder and does help with sizing and expanding.

On straight wall cases, I deprime, wash in SS Pins, dry in large airflow dryer, Vibratory tumble in corncob treated with NuFinish to provide a better sealed surface to defeat discoloration but mainly to provide a small degree of lubrication to inside of necks to prevent galling on expanders especially those as used on my Dillons. After loading, I may vibratory re-tumble in same corncob treated with NuFinish to obtain a beautiful finish and make thousands of rounds look great for a long time.

I load 43 different cartridges, some a lot more than others.

DaleA - would like to meet you sometime.

[GWS]

Nick, I see where you're coming from......sounds like you are a happy camper!

You know the only other press besides the 550 that could do exactly the same thing is the Pro 2000, but you are right......it's a lot more money.....and you do have an extra station to ignore.

I bought mine just after Mr. Obama became pres. and presses were rarer than hen's teeth. I actually bought the manual advance version of the Pro 2k because that's all I could find. I found and bought the auto-advance kit soon after, but I wasn't thinking with your mind set. I was intrigued by auto-advance.....seemed safer to me.

But if I wanted to, I could load exactly how you are.....the press is just a larger investment. One thing I know for sure is that time changes us. Heck, I'm toying with the idea of adding a new RCBS 7 station press to my Pro 2000, Rock Chucker, and Summit! oldman's picture points out how that can happen! Happy loading with that baby blue!

[schmellba99]

On straight wall cases, I deprime, wash in SS Pins, dry in large airflow dryer, Vibratory tumble in corncob treated with NuFinish to provide a better sealed surface to defeat discoloration but mainly to provide a small degree of lubrication to inside of necks to prevent galling on expanders especially those as used on my Dillons.

Try using Armor All Wash-N-Wax instead of detergent soap when you tumble with SSTL pins. Cleans just as good as soap does, but leaves a thin wax coating that protects the brass and acts exactly like Nufinish does. It may eliminate the need to tumble again after you've already tumbled.

[1100 tac]

Welcome to the world of Blue, I have been driving my 550b since 1993 and I have been very satisfied with it.

[Handloader109]

Enjoy, but I will challenge you too. I started with a Lee single stage press. Lucked up on a 650xl and I've been using it for a while. It drops consistent. I didn't trust in it very much. Kept pulling case out and reweighing it. Same, same, same. Trust the machine, look in each case. Save a step or so....

[McCarthy]

Hey Nick, can we have an update on your Base Loader project? How is it working out for you? did you make any changes or go full progressive? May a couple photos?

[Nick_C_S]

Base Loader project?

I still load on my BL 550 as I described in my original post here back in June '15. As Sevens puts it, I continue to use a "hybrid" system where brass prep/reconditioning/cleaning is done in one phase; then I prime and charge by hand with loading blocks; then they go back to the press for actual loading.

I have two toolheads for each cartridge - one for reconditioning, and one for loading. That's a total of 10 toolheads for those of you keeping score at home

After 17 months, I'm totally satisfied with by BL 550 as it thoroughly suits my needs with my (and Sevens') loading process. My shooting has tapered off quite a bit these days (I have some life stuff going on, as well as a part-time job); but I'm still out at the range and load bench a bit. Did some shooting yesterday in fact.

[McCarthy]

The BL stand for Base Loader and using it for case prep and reloading in separate batches makes it a project in my book since it's somewhat unusual.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I might try the same on my 1050 with 2 separate tool heads, at least for 223 and 308. I'm getting tired of rifle case prep and the 1050 can do the swaging and trimming together with depriming and full length sizing or neck sizing all on one head. The case feeder and auto index really makes the entire case preparation a 'one pull for each case operation'.

[Nick_C_S]

The BL stand for Base Loader

Oh, yes. Yes it does. Sorry, minor brain fart there.

I don't load for rifle at all (although I have everything I need for .223 Rem for AR15; just haven't sat down to start. And I own two AR15s that I have yet to shoot - but that's for another post.). And when I do, to start, at least, I'm going to use my RCBS single stage.

Maybe I'm covering ground already walked; but I will say that I am very comfortable with my ammunition reloading process. I have no desire to change. Quick rundown, starting with my brass recovered from a range trip:

1: Vibra-tumble in corn cob.
2: Spray lube. (I figure might as well lube since they're getting ss pin tumbled later.)
3: Resize/decap & flair on progressive. (10mm gets a push-through on my single-stage prior to this step.)
4: Tumble in ss pins; set out to dry on an old towel in my man cave for a couple days.
5: Hand prime on Lee Auto Prime.
6: Place in loading blocks and charge via RCBS Uniflow. INSPECT charge level.
7: Seat/remove flair via taper crimp; taper crimp; Lee FCD (may or may not be engaged for roll crimp, as applicable).
8: Take to the range and enjoy shooting top-notch ammo.

I know it's more steps and work than a conventional progressive loading process. But I have thoroughly thought this through. I don't want to load brass with dirty primer pockets and dirty insides. The ss pin tumble removes it. When I see how much crud that comes out of the tumbler, I know that I don't want that inside my ammo. May not (probably doesn't) make any difference in performance; but I don't like the thought of all that crud being there - so I remove it. I want to load with clean brass - inside n out.

[Metal god]

I just stumbled across this thread and have a question or two .

1) I like my brass clean as well . How ever I just universally de-prime and then wet tumble . Why do you dry tumble first . I know you said to get the range fodder off but why bother the SS wet tumble will get that off as well ?

2) As you know I'm new-ish to handgun loading and I first started with a single stage . I quickly went to an auto indexing turret press that speed up the process quite a bit . I went from loading 100rds in 1-1/2 hours with a single stage to 100rds in just under an hour with the Lee classic turret . I also load on my turret press what I would think to be unconventionally .

my process for hand gun is

De-prime
Wet tumble
hand prime
I then use all 4 stations on the turret press . The one thing that's different is I have my decapping rod/pin removed from my sizing die so not to punch out the new primer . This allows me to run the case through all 4 stations as the press is intended . I use either the lee pro auto disc or the Lee auto drum to drop powder on the second station which is where the case mouth gets flared/belled . I then can seat the bullet and crimp in the last two stations . The fact I no longer need to change dies out not only reducing the time it takes to do that . I'm saving the time it takes to batch load each station . It takes time to size a case and place in block ( repeat 50 times ), bell a case and set in block ( repeat 50 times ) . Then to manually drop a charge then place case in block ( repeat 50 times ) etc . The fact I can place a primed case in the shell holder and in 4 pulls of the handle have a completed round has really sped up my loading . All that time of batch loading 4 different stations has been eliminated .

Why did I share that , I'm not really sure since you seem to have your method down and are happy with it . Maybe others can try the turret press my way and see how well it speeds up there loading . Now if I could only have the guts to prime on the press , I'd really be cooking with fire The thing is I really like being able to feel the seating of the primer in my hand . Just not ready to give that up yet .

[wiiawiwb]

This is a very interesting thread. I need to reread it carefully, post by post.

Like Nick, I've been reluctant to surrender certain aspects or reloading. I currently handload using a CoAx. I have a 5-die/8-step process where I:

1) Decap with a universal decapper
2) Wet clean with a SS tumbler
3) Resize
4) Flare
5) Seat primer on CoAx
6) Powder charge by hand using a GemPro 250 scale and scoop
7) Seat bullet
8) Crimp

I would be nervous giving up the primer seating and powder measuring aspects. As Nick alluded to, it is comforting to feel the primer seated properly. I also feel the bottom of each round with my fingertip after seating the primer to be sure it is below the case surface.

I could be convinced to use the Dillon to powder charge but only with one of those new-fangled video attachment and computer screen where you can visually see the level of each charge in the case.

Those two aspects would be a be leap of faith but maybe I could be convinced to take that enormous step. We'll see.

Oddly enough, I get pleasure out of weighing each powder charge using a scoop and digital scale to try to get as much uniformity as possible. Call me crazy.

[Nick_C_S]

However I just universally de-prime and then wet tumble . Why do you dry tumble first

Baseline: I think we both agree that the brass should be clean prior to resizing - so a cleaning of some sort is in order.

I have a universal de-primer and tried your process. I ran into two problems:

First, the universal de-primer tosses the primers everywhere for whatever reason. I end up with primers everywhere. (It also adds another press stroke to the total process.)

Second, I noticed that when the brass is clean on the inside (from ss pin tumbling), that there's a galling effect on the flair die. It would seem that the spent powder residue (which the corn cob vibra-tumble doesn't remove for whatever reason) acts as a lubricant for the flair die.

And then there's an ancillary third reason: Since I know I'm going to ss pin clean after the reconditioning, I go ahead and give the brass a quick spray lube - which really makes the trip through the dies easier.

I also think it just makes sense overall to clean the brass after all the processing and handling is complete - seems to be the right place for it - to begin the reloading process with nice clean brass.

On the side: My universal de-primer sits on my single stage most the time, at the ready. Even though I don't use it in my normal process, it still has a way of coming in handy.

[schmellba99]

The double cleaning just makes no sense to me personally. Adds a lot of extra work for exactly zero benefit.

Deprime with universal depriming die (on the LnL, it's a breeze and takes no time at all).
Wet tumble with sstl pins and Armor All Wash-N-Wax. The Armor All leaves a thin wax film that both acts as a lube and protects the brass from oxidation.
Run through the loading process on the progressive as it's designed to do.

Easy peasy, minimal handling and you get the exact same quality rounds that you do with the 7 or 8 extra steps you go through.

But, if it works for you, it works for you. You just seem to be trying to justify the extra work really hard.

[Metal god]

I also think it just makes sense overall to clean the brass after all the processing and handling is complete - seems to be the right place for it - to begin the reloading process with nice clean brass.

I clean/dry tumble after all case prep of my rifle brass . I believe you don't load for any rifle but when you do you will find the case prep to be much more involved then handgun brass . Tumbling a second time is a must IMO . I'm here to tell ya wet tumble then dry tumble with corn comb and your brass has all the "BLING" you'll ever need

You know , I de-primed on my LnL single stage for two+ years with the primers pretty much going all over the place . I would set up a stand to hold the trash can close enough to catch maybe 70% of them . That still left a lot of primers on the floor . I kept thinking that Hornady really dropped the ball on that .

Remember I hand prime so one day I thought I'd look at the press priming system . To my surprise there sat a little tub and a lever that primes the case . I put them on the press and it was instantly clear I had not been de-priming correctly . Turns out the lever when in place kicks the primers into the little tub so simple . I don't even have to use the lever to prime the cases just have it on the press to redirect the primers into the tub . I now have maybe 1 or 2 drop to the floor every 500+ cases de-primed . That was one of those "Cmon man" I can't believe I incorrectly used that part of my press for over 2 years .

So now I ask are you sure you're de-primimg on the press correctly