7.62 x 54R ammo reloading

[teenysdaddy1981]

Hi all. It's me again with another beginner question. I got a 1942 Mosin Nagant and 100 rounds of ammo from the gun show in New Bern NC and I am just dying to shoot these off so I can use me new(ish) reloader on rifle rounds for the first time. I have seen mixed opinions on the net about what sized projectile to buy to reload into the casings. I am going to be buying a Lee Deluxe Die set to reload. Should I buy .308 bullets or .311 or .312 or does it matter much which I use? Thank you in advance and sorry for all the newbie questions.

[Osage]

I think the answer you're going to get is to slug your barrel and determine if you need bigger than 308. I'm going to load for my 91/30 as soon as I find some brass. The Lee die set I have is designed for 308 but I've heard you can seat a 311 with it. I'm hoping I can get by with 308 cause that would make life much easier.

[chris in va]

Word of advice...don't waste your money buying dies and components for the 54r. There's just not enough brass to justify the expense and surplus ammo will actually cost *less* than you can reload it for when equipment is factored in.

And yes, I had a Mosin and reload for a lot of other calibers.

[FrankenMauser]

The RCBS 2-die set comes with .308" and .311" expanders.

Slug your bore, to find out what you're working with.

We need more information about your Mosin, to even hazard a guess at what the correct bullet diameter will be. Common bore sizes (even for nearly-new and unissued rifles) run from .310" to .314". Some can be worn to diameters even greater than .318" (which is 8mm!).

Unless you have a rare or modified Mosin with a .308" bore, you'll need .310" or larger bullets. Most people can get away with .311s, .312s, and .313s, but without properly matching the bullet diameter to the bore size, you're taking safety risks.

No matter what I, or anyone else says here - it's going to be wrong!

Slug your bore.
It's the only way to know for sure. It's not an issue of wear, or abuse. It's an issue of the Russians not producing them to consistent sizes, to begin with (and the wear/abues makes things worse).

Slug it.

Word of advice...don't waste your money buying dies and components for the 54r. There's just not enough brass to justify the expense and surplus ammo will actually cost *less* than you can reload it for when equipment is factored in.

Not everyone wants to shoot surplus ammo.
Not all shooting can use surplus ammo.
My M38 is a dedicated short-range/tight-vegetation Elk rig. When I want a challenge, I take it out for Pronghorn Antelope. FMJ surplus ammo is illegal. Factory ammo has undersized projectiles, and would perform poorly. (wave to the lawyers)
Factory ammo or surplus ammo has never been fired in my M38's chamber, since I bought it.

Brass is easy to get. Find a local shop that carries S&B or Prvi Partizan ammo. Ask them to order you 100-200 boxer primed cases. It's good brass, and dirt cheap.

[chiefr]

I was reloading this caliber before surplus ammo was available. At that time the only source of ammo or brass available was NORMA. I still have 100 or so Norma cases. Since Milsurp ammo is abundant, I quit reloading this cal. My Moisin likes 311 gr bullets. However, I concur with Frank that you must slug your bore.

[res45]

My M44 slugged out at .312 across the grooves,it's like the 150 gr. .311 dia. J bullets the best or .314 dia. in cast. The RCBS dies come with two expander balls one for .308 bullets and one for .311's.

You can order a 303B expander rod from the Lee web site for about $3 to use with the .311 dia, bullets. I like the old brass case LB Bulgarian surplus have a few cans of that and several hundred rds. of the Yugo 54r surplus ammo kinda saving that for a rainy day. Back when I bought my Mosin Prvi brass was plentiful and I have a bunch of that as wall as some Win./S & B brass. I mostly shoot cast loads,less wear and tear on the brass and cheaper to load.

[Osage]

Well, I slugged mine tonight and got 3105/3110. Guess I need some different bullets and the 311 expander. Need to find some brass also.

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Dear Teenysdaddy 1981:

Surplus ammo for your 7.62X54R rifle is Berdan primed and the cases require a special de-priming tool available form RCBS. Not only that, the primers are different sizes and they require special priming punches. Unless you can find some Boxer primed cases, give up the idea of reloading for your rifle.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

[sc928porsche]

I have not had a problem inserting .311 bullets in my cases that were sized with the Lee dies (.308). The brass is soft enough to expand without much pressure and the bases of the bullets are slightly chamfered from the factory.

[tobnpr]

To the OP...

I'd be willing to bet that the 100 rounds of ammo you bought at the gun show is surplus steel, and ain't boxer primed brass and reloadable- unless you spent at least $75 on those 100 rounds....

?????????

And to the poster that said don't waste time reloading this caliber, it's not all about cost.
I can buy cheap steel case ammo for my .223, but accuracy demands that I handload.

The Mosin-Nagant is no different. Surplus ammo delivers surplus ammo accuracy and nothing more.
An accurized MN is capable of realizing the additional accuracy provided by a handload that is optimized for the rifle, same as every other rifle we own.

My sporter shoots well with surplus (but I won't use corrosive ammo on a regular basis anyway), but not the 1.5 - and often better- MOA I get with my .311 handloads.

[10X]

I have not had a problem inserting .311 bullets in my cases that were sized with the Lee dies (.308). The brass is soft enough to expand without much pressure and the bases of the bullets are slightly chamfered from the factory.

I sent to lee and got an expander/decapper for a 303 british (.311) and installed in my lee sizing die.

The Remington 180gr. Core-lok .311 RNSP over 45gr. of Varget worked great in my Mosin.

[Japle]

Brass is available from Grafs. They have Prvi for $50 per 100 and Lapua for twice that. They used to sell their own brand for less, but seem to have dropped it.

I load the Sierra .308 200 gr Gameking over 45.0 of IMR4350. I haven’t chronoed it, but I suspect I’m getting about 2100 fps. The accuracy in my M44 is about as good as I could hope for – 1 ½ - 1 ¾” at 100 yds.

[kraigwy]

When I got my Mosin I decided I didn't want to shoot surplus, I wanted to shoot it, and the best venue I've found for shooting a Mosin was the CMP GSM Vintage Military rifle matches.

I bit the bullet and bought 200 rounds of Winchester factory 7.62X54R ammo so I have re loadable brass.

The CMP GSM games are fired at 200 (or 100 yard reduced matches). It doesn't take a lot to get to 200 yards so no reason to load heavy. I loaded 150 Sierra .310 bullets pushed by 45 Grns of 4895. Its mild, easy on the brass and is quite accurate in my Mosin.

Vintage rifle matches are won on your hind legs not your belly, so most of my practice is offhand. I use cast bullets and Trailboss powder shooting 50 Ft Small Bore targets. This makes shooting the Mosin with reloads a heck of a lot cheaper then any surplus out there. You can even jack up the rear sight and shoot cast bullets at 100 yards. They are easy on the gun, brass and shooter, plus if care is used in casting and loading, they are plenty accurate enough.

What makes a Mosin (or any other rifle) accurate is learning to shoot them (practice), you can get a lot more practice, cheaper with cast bullets.

[10X]

I shoot cast in mine when shooting the vintage matches @200 yds. I use a Lyman 311291 over 14 grains of Unique. The brass I have been using is Sellier & Bellot.

[RobertM]

I'm also new the reloading and got a little confused while reading this post.

Could someone please help me understand if my Mosin Nagant slugs out to be .311 do I have to order a special die to load the 7.62X54R or would the regular 7.62X54R die work?

[kraigwy]

The "regular" dies will work just fine.

[tobnpr]

Yup.
Nothing changes with the brass as far as headpace, OAL, etc.- just the neck size very slightly for .308 vs. .311. I use the .311 expander (for .311 SMK's), but others say the case neck expands enough-without increasing pressures- that you can use the .308.

Never tried it, and since there's no way to actually measure the neck tension and possible pressure increase, I'll stick with the proper size expander.

[FrankenMauser]

Nothing changes with the brass as far as headpace, OAL, etc.- just the neck size very slightly for .308 vs. .311. I use the .311 expander (for .311 SMK's), but others say the case neck expands enough-without increasing pressures- that you can use the .308.

I use RCBS dies for 7.62x54R. My standard practice is to use the .311" expander ball, but I experimented with the .308" ball once. The difference of 0.003" isn't much, as far as neck tension, but it can make a big difference in bullet seating. With bullets that don't have beveled bases, or have sharp corners at the base, they run a much higher chance of damaging the brass with the .308" expanded size, than .311". It also takes noticeably more force to seat the bullets.

*Internal neck diameter should be about .304-.305" after sizing with the .308" expander ball, and .307-.308" after sizing with the .311" expander ball.

If you're going to use a .308" expander with .311" or larger diameter bullets, give a good chamfer/deburring to all the case mouths. It will help prevent neck crumpling.

The easy solution is to buy RCBS dies. The RCBS 2-die set comes with both expanders. If you already own a different set, or don't like RCBS dies, all the other manufacturers have .310", .311", or .312" expanders available for a very low price (most also offer .314" to .318", if you need to match your projectile size - some are special order items; some are not).

[RobertM]

Thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me. It's greatly appreciated.

[Kappy]

I just ran across this thread... I figured I'd throw in my .02...

I've been reloading this caliber for a year now. The Mosin M39 was my first rifle, purchased 2 years ago, and the 91/30 was my second, purchased a few months ago.

First, I found Winchester brass which works fine. I bought a lot of it at Big 5 over a few months... probably 140 pieces or so. $20 per 20 rounds, but it's already loaded.

I use a 148gr military, steel core boattail which I pull out of the Russian spam crap.

Now... some people would ask what the point is. My answer would be that mine are more accurate and they aren't corrosive. My 91/30 is now scoped, and I'm continuing to make improvements to it.


As to the M39, I've been casting my own bullets. They're very slow loads, but they are also a lot kinder on the shoulder. They're also pretty darned accurate when you consider my limited experience shooting centerfire rifle with cast bullets (often a 2" group at 100yds with iron sights). I think they'd group even better if I were a better shooter.

Now... we should be clear on one thing... this is NOT cheaper than shooting military spam. It is more accurate. Plus, it's fun.

My next experiment is to reload using the military spam powder.

[PunchinPaper]

Did I misunderstand ??? Can 7.62x54r be reloaded with standard 308 win dies??....

I have heard of guys pulling the bullets from spam can ammo.
Dumping the mil surp powder and reloading it with different powder, using the bullets they pulled and the mil surp cases the pulled them from.

[Kappy]

I simply purchased the 7.62x54r dies from RCBS. Since I'm 30 miles away from their factory, I just stopped by and picked them up. A tad more expensive than ordering from Midway, but I was also there for a mold, handles, etc. so it was somewhat worth it.

I don't know if .308 dies would work. I wouldn't think so... but there is no reason not to try it. So you lose a few pieces of brass... experimentation is fun.

[Kappy]

Oh... and the spam can rounds... those are actually really well made, believe it or not. The speeds on them are incredibly reliable. Through a chronograph, I got a variance of maybe 3 or 4 feet per second over 10 rounds except for one which was off by 20. Remember that this is around 2,800fps, so being off by that amount is pretty great in my opinion.

When I shoot the spam can stuff, I'm shooting Russian Silver-tip. I disassemble some for the parts and shoot some of it.

[Ivan]

Is there a source for .310 diameter bullets which are the proper size for this caliber? The only ones I have found that are commonly available are the 123 grain stuff for 7.62x39 and those are a bit light for a 7.62x54R. Cases aren't hard to find. PPU and S&B both are available.

- Ivan.

[FrankenMauser]

Did I misunderstand ??? Can 7.62x54r be reloaded with standard 308 win dies??.

No. 7.62x54R cannot be reloaded with .308 Winchester dies. The 7.62x54R case dimensions are completely different. If you were to try it, you would find the 7.62x54R is a larger case that won't even fully enter a .308 Win sizing die.

I believe your confusion came from misunderstanding the discussion about expander plugs. The expander plug is part of the decapping assembly in the sizing die. For 7.62x54R dies, several manufacturers include .308" and .311" expanders (diameter, not cartridge). This is so reloaders can use the dies for both "standard" .311" bores, and non-standard .308" bores.