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Old November 24, 2018, 12:07 AM   #1
tmd47762
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Mossberg Patriot vs Savage Axis

I’ve been looking for a no frills rifle for deer to maybe elk if the weather is bad and some range shooting. After bouncing around on calibers I came back to the 308 as the best option, though for the right price I could go with a 270 or 30-06. I’ve narrowed the race to the savage and mossberg. I like the stock on the Mossberg more but the safety is merely ok. The Savage has a better feeling safety but the stock feel is slightly less good. I can get either new locally for $300 with a scope. I also have found lightly used patriots for 230 in pawn shops around here. My guess is that whichever is the right price gets the spot in the safe but wanted to see what personal experience might be out there.
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Old November 24, 2018, 01:12 AM   #2
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I have some experience with both models, and they both have good and bad points. The one thing that stands out for me is the trigger. The base model Axis can have a pretty heavy trigger pull, I had to do a little work to mine to bring the pull weight down to a reasonable level.

The Mossberg has a decent trigger right out of the box. Not necessarily great, but decent - and it's adjustable. Makes it a whole lot easier to shoot accurately, IMO.

The Axis II is available with the AccuTrigger, but they tend to run higher in price.

I currently own an Axis in .223, my nephew owns an Axis in .223, and my daughter owns the Patriot in .270. Also, my BIL owns the Patriot in .243. He used to own an Axis, but he traded it in on the Patriot.

Both models have functioned well enough, and both are reasonably accurate but if I had to live with just one them it would be the Mossberg. If I hadn't purchased the Axis before the Patriot came out, I would probably be a Patriot owner right now.
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Old November 24, 2018, 06:06 AM   #3
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Mossberg wins the fit form and function but Savage takes accuracy easily. Mossberg will shoot more then adequate for hunting. Will take a little longer to find factory ammo the Mossberg likes in my experience.... little more finicky
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Old November 24, 2018, 07:10 AM   #4
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I'd recommend staying with a short action in any of the budget rifles. They are all on the light side and recoil from the long action versions starts to get sporty. If shopping for a used, or for that matter new rifle don't focus on only one cartridge. A 243, 6.5CM, 7-08 or 308 will all kill deer and elk. The 243 is on the lower end for elk, but will kill one. No deer or elk will ever notice the difference between the other 3. For several reasons I like 308 a little better, but if I ran across a steal on a used 7-08 or 6.5 CM I'd not pass it up waiting on a 308.

Several companies make decent budget guns. I don't have any personal experience with either of those options. But based just on what I read on this and other gun/hunting related forums think the Axis has the better reputation.

They are a little more expensive, and I think are worth it, but the Ruger American gets my vote for the best of the budget rifles. The standard rifles run around $350 here and the Predator version around $400. That is for new rifles. When used ones turn up around $250.
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Old November 24, 2018, 08:38 AM   #5
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The action length on both rifles is the same. Long..
For the short cartridges a filler/spacer is used.
So you might as well go the 270 or 06' route.
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Old November 24, 2018, 12:24 PM   #6
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The action length has nothing to do with felt recoil. The weight and stock design do. In a Patriot, both chamberings weigh exactly the same and have the same stock. 7.5 pounds. You won't notice the difference.
The Axis, an entry level hunting rifle, weighs a tick less at 7.25 pounds.
You can really toss a coin and buy either based entirely on price and live happily ever after. For bad weather, I think I'd lean towards SS. The Patriot comes in SS with Ceracote on it. The Mossberg is just SS.
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Old November 24, 2018, 01:57 PM   #7
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Huh????

The Patriot comes in stainless steel with Cerakote on it, and the Mossberg comes in stainless steel??
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Old November 24, 2018, 03:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
The action length on both rifles is the same. Long..
For the short cartridges a filler/spacer is used.
So you might as well go the 270 or 06' route.
At least for Savage that is wrong. Models in XX digits are short actions. No filler.

Models in XXX (110 etc) are long (there is some cross over but mostly that describes it)

I don't know about the Mossy.
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Old November 24, 2018, 06:43 PM   #9
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In the Model 10/110, 11/111, 16/116 you are correct.
But....
We are talking about the Axis/Axis II models. They are built on only the long action with a spacer.
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Old November 25, 2018, 11:24 AM   #10
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I stand corrected!
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Old November 25, 2018, 10:12 PM   #11
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I have never shot a Patriot. I have shot my son's Axis. It is ugly, rough, cheap feeling, and an absolute tack driver. It will shoot any ammo I have ever fed it sub MOA. It will shoot match ammo under 1/2" at 100, 5 shot groups, with a 3x9 cheap scope.
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Old November 27, 2018, 11:19 AM   #12
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My brother has enjoyed his Axis, but I would suggest, if you can find it, step up to the Axis II for the Accutrigger. I have a Mossberg MVP LC, so I can't really comment against the bottom budget one.
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Old November 27, 2018, 05:08 PM   #13
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Ya know, it has occured to me...

Say what you will about the "budget" rifles. It has a bad trigger, stock is cheap, scope is cheap, fit & finish sadly lacking.
But way more often than not, people exlaim the accuracy of them.

Browsing my local gun shops, i'm hard pressed to find used ones on the shelf.
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Old November 28, 2018, 08:35 AM   #14
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I have owned both, both are great and functional budget rifles.

The very latest Axis models have an updated stock that looks much better, and is SUPPOSED to be a bit stiffer. I can’t comment on that because I only own the older style.

The Patriot has been a smashing success for a Mossberg. They are not finished particularly well if you really nitpick, but they are smooth, have good triggers, and are accurate rifles on the whole.

I am a fan of the Remington 783, which is very similar to both the Axis and Patriot. Remington is pretty much hated now, but the 783 is a great basic rifle that functions well. The stock is fairly stiff, (I also have the Walnut model so that’s a non-issue regardless), bolt is smooth, and it has a GREAT recoil pad.

Don’t overlook the TC Compass, either.

I don’t think you can go wrong with most of the budget guns; they all have strengths and weaknesses. For a basic hunting gun they’ll all do the job well.

I’m a member of some hunting groups on social media, and I’ve been surprised at how many hunters have embraced these budget guns. They don’t have the sex appeal of the old school deer guns, but they get the job done just fine where it counts.

Good luck and good shooting!
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Old November 28, 2018, 03:04 PM   #15
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Edit: removed based on information on the 783. Was unaware of the upgrades it received over the 770.
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Old December 1, 2018, 08:37 PM   #16
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Checked out our monthly gun show this morning and didn’t find the rifle at the right price, but it wasn’t a total bust. I did get some confidence in my shopping around and some odds and ends. Great for pistols and ARs but lacking in diversity for bolts. Next week I’ll check the pawn shop mossbergs to see how used they actually are then decide from there. My guess is most of these are rifles in 30-06 that were bought and the owner didn’t like the recoil and traded them for something else.
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Old December 2, 2018, 12:13 PM   #17
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Why in the world are you looking a gun shows and pawn shops for used Partiot's? You will probably pay close to if not at new price for it. My first Patriot came in a plastic stock and I ordered a wood stock the same day. Rifle with the plastic stock shot 1" out of the box and cost my $299 brand new!
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Old December 2, 2018, 12:49 PM   #18
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You can always replace the Axis trigger with a Timiney. My son’s deer gun is set up that way. Very accurate and the trigger is great.
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Old December 2, 2018, 01:08 PM   #19
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Go axis 2 and don’t look back


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Old December 2, 2018, 11:15 PM   #20
Orion6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
Why in the world are you looking a gun shows and pawn shops for used Partiot's? You will probably pay close to if not at new price for it. My first Patriot came in a plastic stock and I ordered a wood stock the same day. Rifle with the plastic stock shot 1" out of the box and cost my $299 brand new!
For real. These are under $300 brand new with warranty everywhere.
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Old December 5, 2018, 09:27 PM   #21
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I have a Remington 783 in .308 and I love it. Shot my first deer with it on Saturday. Only thing I've done with it was to get a part to make the bolt lift knob larger.
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Old December 6, 2018, 10:01 AM   #22
tmd47762
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I wound up going with a new Axis in 30-06. It does everything I'll need it to and the price really won the day, given all the other similarities. I'm hoping to get it out to the range as soon as the weather improves down here to get it sighted in and start learning what kind of ammo it prefers. Thanks to everyone for the information!
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Old December 6, 2018, 10:58 AM   #23
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I am a full-time gunsmith and because of that, I earn my living dealing with shooters. I have seen and talked to many men and women around here that own those rifles. So far I have heard and dealt with very few complaints. On the Axis in 223, I have had 2 come to me with the little flap (cartridge pusher) on the bolt broken. Zero failures with the Axis in the larger calibers so far.

Both rifle brands occasionally break an extractor. Easy to replace and both Savage and Mossberg will send a replacement set of parts free, but I dislike the fact that it may break on a hunt. Not a chronic problem, but it can and does happen every now and then.

I am told there is some man making milled extractors for them somewhere in the USA and I'd love to find out who that is. If anyone knows please post the info.

The M.I.M. castings that both companies use (and Marlin too) have a higher failure rate then I'd like. In the last 10-12 years or so I have replaced maybe 10 extractors on various makes and models of rifles using "T-Head" extractor systems. This includes Marlins, Mossbergs and Savages combined. To put that in prospective, they still have a lower failure rate than what I have dealt with on Remington 700s because I average 3-4 Remingtons every year coming to me with broken extractors.

The odds of any of these rifles breaking an extractor when you have it in your hands while hunting is low, but not non-existent. Just as a side note, the oldest T-Head system I know of is the "post 64 Winchester M-70, and in all my years I have never seen an M-70 break an extractor. I am told theirs were milled, not cast. I have had to fix a few that got stuck from build ups of "goo" like oils that turned to varnish, and sometimes rust of the extractor and bolt face as well as the spring inside the hole, but so far I have never seen one break.

I own a Mossberg MVP in 308. The receiver, trigger and barrel are the same as those used on the Patriot. I like the rifle a lot for a factory rifle but I'd like it a lot better if the safety locked the bolt down and if it had a milled extractor. (I keep promising myself that someday I am going to hand-make a solid extractor out of 5160 steel and fit it, but so far I have been too busy to get around to doing that)

It is a 308 of course and I can't say I believe it's any less accurate then what I have seen from the Savage rifles. (I also doubt it's more accurate) I use loads with 150 grain Winchester Power Points that shoot about 1 MOA and I have also used a few loads with 165 grain Nosler Partitions that shoot about the same. But I have a friend who loves the bench-rest competitions and he loads some ammo with Sierra Match-Kings that I have shot in my MVP which shoot into a ragged hole at 100Yd.
I am a hunter so I could not care less about a group that is 1/3 of an inch loaded with target bullets,. 1 MOA is all the accuracy ever needed to kill deer, antelope and elk out to the max ethical range any hunter should fire at game, but a bullet that does not break up or turn off at extreme angles within the animal is of more value to me than a smaller group than I can't hold without a bench-rest under the gun.

So I continue to use my hunting bullets, but the accuracy of the rifle is not in question at all.

Last edited by Wyosmith; December 6, 2018 at 11:17 AM.
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Old December 6, 2018, 03:05 PM   #24
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I think the biggest difference will be in look's. feel and price. Never picked up a Savage newer than the old 110 but have two Patriot's. The 243 shot 1" 100 yds groups out of the box! All I use the other for, 308, is cast bullet's and haven't a clue if it's 2" 100 yd groups are alright. Thinking I'll hunt with it someday. I suspect you can have a problem of some kind with any new rifle, not just Savage or Mossberg! Go look over both and then choose what you like. Mossberg's with wood stocks around here are hard to find in fact even with plastic stocks it's no easy. Of course there's less than 3,000 people living within about 30 miles of where I live! Haven't looked at Savage but I certainly would not be against a wood stock one, they have a great reputation for accuracy. Bet than now and then they turn out a pig, just like everyone else!

EDIT: About that Mossberg safety that is meerly OK.Mine work fine and I could care less if the bolt is not locked. If your one of those that feels he can't unload the rifle without chambering every round and closing the bolt, you should have the safety on all through it!
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Old December 6, 2018, 04:37 PM   #25
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I would recommend a T/C Compass over both. You can get one + a Vortex scope for like $350 nowadays.
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