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Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM   #251
gc70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker two
Well....the 250 will definitely fire when the firing pin is struck by the hammer.....
Now you only need to explain how it could be possible for the hammer to be cocked far enough to strike the firing pin with adequate force, with the firing pin block disengaged, as the result of a drop.
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Old Yesterday, 01:09 PM   #252
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P250 never sold well. I get some people on here like it and I have no personal problem with the pistol, but sales are what keep a product alive.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM   #253
Independent George
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The 250 never sold well because it's a DAO pistol in a market that already views even DA/SA as obsolete. Which is a shame, because that was an outstanding DA trigger, but I understand it completely; I wouldn't have wanted it as a duty gun, either.

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Old Yesterday, 07:42 PM   #254
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I don't know why gun companies can't make a production DA/SA pistol with a DA pull like a Sig P250. I have the P250 in several calibers and configurations, including 22LR and 380ACP, and it's just the best production semi-auto with DAO trigger bar none. The trigger is easy to reach, smooth, relatively light, consistent, and breaks well. I always preferred the P250 to the P320 for any purpose other than just shooting at the range.

In any case, I hope the Sig P320 upgrade doesn't require any grip module modification, as I have many of them for both the P320 and the P250. I keep reading that the frame will be modified - I hope that's just the serialized fire control part.
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Old Yesterday, 10:35 PM   #255
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Quote:
I have the P250 in several calibers and configurations, including 22LR and 380ACP, and it's just the best production semi-auto with DAO trigger bar none.
I had a similar impression of the P250 trigger and was always surprised at how many people seemed to think the trigger was terrible.
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Old Today, 10:28 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
I... was always surprised at how many people seemed to think the [P250] trigger was terrible.
IMHO it's great for what it is... a simulation of a well-broken-in DA revolver trigger. I like it better than the DA stage in almost every DA/SA auto pistol I've tried, except perhaps the upper-end EAA/Tanfo Witness pistols and the Wilson Combat versions of the Beretta 92FS.

The problem is that this simply wasn't what most folks in the auto pistol market were expecting. SIG had the bad fortune to release an excellent long-stroke DAO system at a time when the market was moving away from this type of trigger—e.g. the S&W metal-frame DAO line is extinct, the Beretta 92D is moribund, and SIG themselves no longer seem to be pushing their DAK system.
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Old Today, 10:41 AM   #257
Independent George
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
I had a similar impression of the P250 trigger and was always surprised at how many people seemed to think the trigger was terrible.
It's because most people hardly shoot DA anymore, or even know how; the long trigger pull is seen as a defect instead of a deliberate design decision.

Try bringing up a Kahr, and just count how often people talk about the 'terrible' trigger. I even remember one YouTube reviewer talking about how impossible it was to find the break to stage the trigger on.

Granted, it is harder to shoot DA accurately, and requires a LOT of practice. I still like having it as a final, redundant safety system.

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Old Today, 11:43 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent George View Post
The 250 never sold well because it's a DAO pistol in a market that already views even DA/SA as obsolete. Which is a shame, because that was an outstanding DA trigger, but I understand it completely; I wouldn't have wanted it as a duty gun, either.

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They did not sell well because they beta tested them on paying consumers. There were IIRC 4-5 revision of the guns. The initial release had reliability problems. The caliber changes were vaporware for years. They failed the ATF pistol trials. The list goes on and on. It really should not be a surprise there are issues with the P320 which was built off the P250 platform.

As for the trigger it is smooth but too long. The trigger is also different between different versions of the P250. Some are better than others. They also initally sold for way too much money and LEO and were not going to switch from Glocks. Cost was a huge factor. People only bought them once they became $300 NIB guns.

Personally I waited a long time to get a P320 hoping that the bugs would be worked out before I got one. Some of them were some of them clearly were not. Sig has not had a clean rollout of a new product in a long time.

Look at the 556, P238, Sig P250, MPX etc... All of them had had issues when released.
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Old Today, 02:08 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVsig
Sig has not had a clean rollout of a new product in a long time.

Look at the 556, P238, Sig P250, MPX etc... All of them had had issues when released.
Don't forget their entry into the 1911 market. SIG even managed to muck up a 100-year old design. They blamed the problems with the first generation on Caspian, who supplied the frames and slides. Curiously, Caspian subsequently sold the unused remainder of those slides and frames as kits, and I haven't heard of a single person who built a 1911 on those kits who had a problem.

Then, after a complete shut-down of several months, they brought out the second generation ... and still had problems. I think SIG 1911s generally function now, but are they on the third or fourth generation?

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; Today at 05:11 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Today, 02:10 PM   #260
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Buddy of mine bought a SIG 1911 a couple years ago. It wouldn't reliably feed ball ammo. I tried to get him to send it in, but I don't think he ever did.

Some of the irony here is that all things considered, the P320 was one of the more successful designs on release for SIG in terms of amount of problems. And yet here we are.
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Old Today, 02:13 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
Don't forget their entry into the 1911 market. SIG eve managed to muck up a 100-year old design. They blamed the problems with the first generation on Caspian, who supplied the frames and slides. Curiously, Caspian subsequently sold the unused remainder of those slides and frames as kits, and I haven't heard of a single person who built a 1911 on those kits who had a problem.

Then, after a complete shut-down of several months, they brought out the second generation ... and still had problems. I think SIG 1911s generally function now, but are they on the third or fourth generation?
Yeah I owned a Gen 1 GSR which had to have a extractor replaced. Sig did that under warranty. The extractor was walking out. Other than that it was a tack driver and was extremely accurate. Caspian slide and frame with a Storm Lake barrel but Sig could not assemble them properly. These days they do seem to run better.

It is a lot like the P238 which was also a Colt design which Sig could not get right. Took years to get that one right but current production seems to be reliable.
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Old Today, 03:30 PM   #262
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So.. buy Sig products only after a few years of introduction.

* I was bitten by this problem also. I bought the P226SAO Elite as soon as it came out - had to go back twice to Sig due to a defective safety (actually safety spring, which is a weak circular design).
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Old Today, 04:07 PM   #263
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Quote:
the P238 which was also a Colt design
I don't understand why the P238 is considered a clone of the Mustang. They are both single-action .380s of a similar size that bear a resemblance to a small 1911 but their method of locking up couldn't be more different. A Mustang locks with locking lugs on top of the barrel locking into recesses in the slide ala 1911 or a Browning Hi Power. The P238 locks the breech into the slide like other Sigs, Ruger, Glock and many others. One reason the Mustang has a rounded slide and the Sig is squared off. They seem quite different to me and I think it's a major difference.

I prefer the Sig.

Not that I am disagreeing with the overall point. The P290 was another model that took time and revision to get right and was also hampered by too high an MSRP when first introduced.
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Old Today, 04:21 PM   #264
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I don't understand why the P238 is considered a clone of the Mustang. They are both single-action .380s of a similar size that bear a resemblance to a small 1911 but their method of locking up couldn't be more different. A Mustang locks with locking lugs on top of the barrel locking into recesses in the slide ala 1911 or a Browning Hi Power. The P238 locks the breech into the slide like other Sigs, Ruger, Glock and many others. One reason the Mustang has a rounded slide and the Sig is squared off. They seem quite different to me and I think it's a major difference.

I prefer the Sig.

Not that I am disagreeing with the overall point. The P290 was another model that took time and revision to get right and was also hampered by too high an MSRP when first introduced.
It is considered a clone because it is my understanding that Sig bought the rights/ lic from Colt to make the P238. There are a few differences in the guns like the locking mechanism you mentioned but it is a clone based on the Colt.
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Old Today, 05:17 PM   #265
Aguila Blanca
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You seriously don't think this:

Sig P238:


is a clone of this?

Colt Mustang:


Just look at the locations and shapes of the controls. Even the grips interchange.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; Today at 08:42 PM.
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Old Today, 05:57 PM   #266
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it is my understanding that Sig bought the rights/ lic from Colt
I have heard that many times also. I have also heard differently. I've never confirmed it either way. I'm glad they both are available, though.
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