MN-four children driving stolen car shot by auto gunfire

[DaleA]

In Minneapolis, Minnesota there were five children, ages 11 to 14 driving around in a stolen car. People in another car unleashed full auto fire and four of the five children driving around in the stolen car were injured. The shooters have not been found yet.

Two of the five children had been caught with a different stolen car within the past two weeks.

What charges are the kids driving around in the car now facing?

None.

Charges won’t be considered against any of the minors, the spokesman said, due to a state law saying children under the age of 14 are incapable of committing a crime.

MN Law:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.055

The news story:
https://www.americanexperiment.org/4...in-stolen-car/

Minneapolis----"Come because you don't know any better. Stay because your car's been jacked."

[Jim Watson]

Lesson maybe learned. Don’t steal a car and you might not get shot at.

[5whiskey]

Oh wow. I get not being quick to charge a kid (especially as young as 11), but almost every state purges your juvenile record when you become an adult. So let juvi deal with them, and they still have a chance to not have a record as an adult.

[tangolima]

I think it is similar everywhere. Minors can't be charged as adults.

Full auto gun fire just for that? It is an overkill.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Aguila Blanca]

I have zero sympathy for anyone who is a career criminal before they've reached the age to be eligible for a driver's license.

[gwpercle]

I think there should be some laws concerning Parents of the kids ...

If the kids do the crime ... Mommy and Daddy Pay the Fines ...
... or do the Time !.

If you are going to have children ... it's your job to raise them and make upstanding , honest , law-abiding Citizens out of them ... not turn them into criminals ...
That's Criminal !!!
Gary

[44 AMP]

Being the PITA I am, I'd like to know where the claim of "automatic gunfire" comes from.

By the reports, the cops have not caught (or even identified) the shooter(s), so we have NO IDEA what weapons were used, and identifying a rapid series of shots as "automatic gunfire" is entirely baseless without supporting evidence.

Catch the perps and show me the full auto guns, and THEN I'll accept the claim. Otherwise, its baseless and could simply be yet another media falsehood.

What witness(s?) saw/heard the shots? Are we taking the word of the 14 to 11year olds (who apparently stole the car) as valid and accurate that it was "automatic gunfire"??

Personally, if my 11 to 14 year old was out on the streets at 1am, I would have called the cops several hours before. It is easy and handy to blame the parents (and some do deserve it) but when the child disobeys, what can even a responsible parent do? Most of the traditional methods of physically discipling children are criminal offenses most places, these days. And that leaves what? appealing to the juvenile's sense of morality and right and wrong? In our modern era, with all the influences (good AND BAD) competing with parental influence, there's often not much to work with.

Wanna bet at least some of those kids had good scores playing Grand Theft Auto???

[DaleA]

By the reports, the cops have not caught (or even identified) the shooter(s), so we have NO IDEA what weapons were used, and identifying a rapid series of shots as "automatic gunfire" is entirely baseless without supporting evidence.

Yep. I my opinion, based on the evidence presented, (none), you are correct to question this point.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Being the PITA I am, I'd like to know where the claim of "automatic gunfire" comes from.



By the reports, the cops have not caught (or even identified) the shooter(s), so we have NO IDEA what weapons were used, and identifying a rapid series of shots as "automatic gunfire" is entirely baseless without supporting evidence.



Catch the perps and show me the full auto guns, and THEN I'll accept the claim. Otherwise, its baseless and could simply be yet another media falsehood.



What witness(s?) saw/heard the shots? Are we taking the word of the 14 to 11year olds (who apparently stole the car) as valid and accurate that it was "automatic gunfire"??



Personally, if my 11 to 14 year old was out on the streets at 1am, I would have called the cops several hours before. It is easy and handy to blame the parents (and some do deserve it) but when the child disobeys, what can even a responsible parent do? Most of the traditional methods of physically discipling children are criminal offenses most places, these days. And that leaves what? appealing to the juvenile's sense of morality and right and wrong? In our modern era, with all the influences (good AND BAD) competing with parental influence, there's often not much to work with.



Wanna bet at least some of those kids had good scores playing Grand Theft Auto???

I was about to say the same.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Skans]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I have zero sympathy for anyone who is a career criminal before they've reached the age to be eligible for a driver's license.

I'd leave it at this: I have zero sympathy for any criminals who seek to do harm to others or steal other people's things and wealth.

[georgehwbush]

that post about punish the parrents... i have a thought i'd like to share.

there should be NO responsibility without authority, and NO authority without responsibility.

what does that mean? it means don't hold someone responsible unless you are willing to let them do "what ever it takes" to control the situation. and i do mean "what ever it takes" and secondly do not give anyone any authority unless you hold them responsible for the outcome.

ruminate on that a minute.

[44 AMP]

and i do mean "what ever it takes"

I mostly agree, but there do need to be legal limits and consequences. You may not, for example put a disobedient child to death on a whim.

Our problem (thank you Dr Spock and others) is that the laws intended to prevent death, and serious injury to children have suffered "mission creep" over the past half century, being "improved" by people who either had no children, or had naturally well behaved ones to the point where physical contact can be considered "abuse" and parents might even wind up in jail.

Personally, I have never been in favor of not prosecuting children, or any kind of impaired judgement / insanity defense for adults or anyone else.

Nothing changes the fact that when a crime is committed, the reason(s) why and what the criminal knew or did not know, was capable of knowing or not capable of knowing does not change the fact that what was done, was done. If harm was committed, does the why matter? Not much to me.

[georgehwbush]

of course the why matters, if it didn't there would be no "self defense" and no "execution" it would all be murder plain and simple. the why has to matter.

[44 AMP]

of course the why matters, if it didn't there would be no "self defense" and no "execution" it would all be murder plain and simple. the why has to matter.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. Apologies for that. My point is that the "why" changes nothing about what happened. The why matters to the law, and what charges and penalties should be applied, but doesn't change what happened one bit. Nothing can.

And, to be clear, its all homicide, its only murder when the law says it is, and to do that, they consider the why.

[Ricklin]

Do not be at all surprised to hear (hopefully NOT) fully automatic gunfire. The Glock switches are flooding in to the country now, or being made right here in the USA via a 3d printer.
Any of the handgun guys here could easily install a Glock switch. Unlike most other designs Glocks specifically gen 3 are super easy to make semi/full auto and the kits are out there now. Law enforcement are seeing more and more of them.
No leftish propaganda here, it really is too darned easy to do. It is being done by those who do not fear being arrested. Catch and release is the order of the day esp. for those under the age of 18. I've seen apparent 15 YO's that I was anxious to be somewhere else. There is a reason for those very baggy trousers.

[44 AMP]

No leftish propaganda here, it really is too darned easy to do. It is being done by those who do not fear being arrested

Every firearm design approved for civilian sale in the US gets reviewed by the ATF prior to approval. Glocks all have gone through this, and been passed.

Now, a decade + down the road, some bright boy figures out something that both the ATF, and Glock never thought of. And, thanks to our press hammering on the matter, everyone is being told how easy it is to do.

There is no semi auto that cannot be converted to full auto. What differs is the amount of work involved. Some designs would need enough machine work that you might as well make a new receiver. Others can be converted with parts made by tinsnips from a soup can in less than 10minutes, IF you know what you're doing.

Freedom of the press seems these days to include freedom from responsibility, and they're happy to inform the entire world how to break the law, 24/7.

DOING IT, actually making the conversion part(s), and manufacturing illegal machine guns is a felony, last time I checked, it had a 10 year sentence, along with a substantial fine.

I have a question for our legal eagles and anyone else with knowledge on the subject,...

A felon cannot legally possess a gun, and can be charged with illegal possession, this is established, but it is also established that the felon cannot be charged with failure to register the gun (that he is not allowed to possess) as doing so violates his Constitutional rights.

Now, a machine gun is illegal to possess if it is not registered (and the tax paid etc), so can the felon be charged with illegal machine gun possession, when the law does not require him to register it??

[mehavey]

They can only be charged for unlawfully possessing "a firearm."
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comment...ated_criminal/

[44 AMP]

yeah, that's about what I thought. What is the usual penalty for felon in possession of a firearm?? Less than the 10 year for possession of an illegal machine gun, isn't it??

So, to be clear, someone who is not a prohibited person, who gets convicted of possessing an illegal machinegun faces MORE prison time than a prohibited person caught possessing the exact same item???

[Skans]

I won't say whether shooting kids who stole cars is right or wrong. But, I will say that most cars today cost about $30,000-50,000. This can be a year's salary/wages for many people. So, they are not just stealing a car. They are stealing a year out of someone's life. Essentially, the same thing as enslaving a person for a year and forcing them to work for the thief. Needless to say, I have a lot of sympathy for the victims of any car-theft, and none for the perpetrators.

[Ricklin]

Since catch and release is the order of the day and it is quite likely juveniles will be a good percentage of those arrested for possession of the illegally modified gun.
Just brings another question, since minors are also prohibited persons with adult supervision excepted. Kids can't have guns either.
I do agree. Heck sloppy full auto can be done with a shoestring, however the shoestring does not give the gang banger any street cred...
I don't blame Glock at all. Technology is very much a double edged sword.

[davidsog]

I think there should be some laws concerning Parents of the kids ...

If the kids do the crime ... Mommy and Daddy Pay the Fines ...
... or do the Time !.

If you are going to have children ... it's your job to raise them and make upstanding , honest , law-abiding Citizens out of them ... not turn them into criminals ...
That's Criminal !!!
Gary

That just a reversal of the Corruption of Blood doctrine. I sure hope we don't go down that road.

[44 AMP]

If you are going to have children ... it's your job to raise them and make upstanding , honest , law-abiding Citizens out of them ... not turn them into criminals ...

That is what parents are supposed to do. Now, tell us what you think the law ought to do when parents don't do that, or try to do that, and fail??

Should it be the same punishment?

And what gives you, or I, though the law, the right and the authority to determine what is "proper parenting", and punish parents who fail to meet the standards chosen??

And, is it fair to ignore the fact that children DO have free will, can, and will do what ever they want, when there is no direct supervision???

Are you proposing that we have/make laws to arbitrarily determine (and punish) based on ideas and concepts no one in history has yet been able to identify, let alone prove??

Is it Nature or Nurture?? Perhaps, both, or neither?? And is it the proper role for the law to determine that???

The classic example used during discussion of who/what is responsible for behavior is the family with three sons, one grows up to become a priest, another to become a cop, and the last to become a career criminal.

Same DNA (nature) raised in the same home by the same people (nurture) and yet, drastically different outcomes. I think free will, including the "bad choices" plays the biggest part, and the free will choices of individuals are theirs, and theirs alone, no matter if they are 11 or 21.

This is not a defective product situation where one can morally and legally hold the maker responsible for the quality of the product. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[Ricklin]

In many cases, the parents can be charged. They are usually not charged.
The father of our most recent school shooter is in jail. I have very mixed emotions on this one.
Reminded of the old saw that it requires a license to have a dog. Government getting in to the parenting gig.....scares me to death.