Help Identifying this old rolling block shotgun

Spet37 · September 9, 2024, 05:56 PM

Good afternoon all,

New to this forum here and desperately seeking information on this old gun. See images below, review the images and you'll see why:

https://imgur.com/gallery/Bvrl7cB

What I believe this is is a Remington Number 1 Rolling Block Sporter Shotgun serial number 2 but I have no way to confirm. There's worn out engraving work done where the manufacturer markings would normally be.

Obviously this would be a huge find, because this would be a numbers matching serial number 2 gun. Can give the full story of how I've come to own and find out the information on the gun I have up to this point if interested!

**4V50 Gary** · September 9, 2024, 07:59 PM

I'll have to check the books but that looks like the regimental emblem of the British Army's 40th Regiment of Foot.

Spet37 · September 9, 2024, 08:19 PM

Do they have any documented history of carrying a rolling block shotgun?

If this is a British military firearm I'd just be more confused about what this thing is.

**4V50 Gary** · September 9, 2024, 08:55 PM

I don't think so. They had the Martini-Henry and judging from the stock, it may have belonged to an officer of the 40th. I'll have to check my books to see where the 40th served.

Spet37 · September 9, 2024, 08:56 PM

Wouldn't it have British Military war department acceptance stamps on it if it were British Military? My Martini Henry has war department stamps all over it.

Spet37 · September 9, 2024, 08:57 PM

I suppose if it were an officer gun it could have been privately owned and wouldn't necessarily have WD stamps.

Jim Watson · September 10, 2024, 11:30 AM

I have not seen a Remington Rolling Block with that curled back shotgun style trigger guard. The breechblock tab looks odd. The hammer spur looks replaced, no help there.
The receiver is very rounded. There is a step in the receiver ring not on the one I found a picture of.
I’m thinking European copy.

**4V50 Gary** · September 10, 2024, 02:55 PM

Or Pakistani/Kyber Pass/Indian copy. @Mike Irwin.

Spet37 · September 10, 2024, 05:13 PM

If it's a copy or licensed rolling block any way to figure out the manufacturer? I have a hard time buying kyber pass copy. The screw threads and pins seem to be interchangeable and as far as I know a kyber pass gun from this period would have had hand cut threads.

**4V50 Gary** · September 10, 2024, 05:55 PM

The little dots on the receiver reminds me of the Islamic style of decoration. So does that flower on the stock.

If the English had engraved it, it would have been very tightly engraved rococco that characterized late 19th Century English engraving.

Ditto with the other inlays. They don't scream "English" to me.

If it was a real Remington Rolling Block, it could have been "product improved" by some Indian (there was no Pakistan in the 19th Century) somewhere in the Kyber Pass.

Spet37 · September 10, 2024, 06:08 PM

Fair enough, the guy at the gun shop I bought it from said they thought the engravings were Native American.

Parts like the receiver and button plate I can see clear machine tool marks as well, which I don't think would be on a kyber pass gun?

Spet37 · September 10, 2024, 06:20 PM

I could by it was a European clone that somehow made it's way to India and was engraved out there, but I've spent some time in a machine shop and would like to think I'd know machine cut parts when I see them. To me the receiver looks forged then clean up cut on a mill based on tool marks I see. Threaded holes also look nicely tapped. I wouldn't think entirely kyber pass built guns would have this level of manufacturing sophistication.

**4V50 Gary** · September 10, 2024, 06:36 PM

Metallurgy will tell you a lot too.

Spet37 · September 10, 2024, 06:48 PM

That is true. If it's all pig iron well then that's that.

September 9, 2024, 05:56 PM	#1
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	Help Identifying this old rolling block shotgun Good afternoon all, New to this forum here and desperately seeking information on this old gun. See images below, review the images and you'll see why: https://imgur.com/gallery/Bvrl7cB What I believe this is is a Remington Number 1 Rolling Block Sporter Shotgun serial number 2 but I have no way to confirm. There's worn out engraving work done where the manufacturer markings would normally be. Obviously this would be a huge find, because this would be a numbers matching serial number 2 gun. Can give the full story of how I've come to own and find out the information on the gun I have up to this point if interested!

September 9, 2024, 07:59 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,004	I'll have to check the books but that looks like the regimental emblem of the British Army's 40th Regiment of Foot. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 9, 2024, 08:55 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,004	I don't think so. They had the Martini-Henry and judging from the stock, it may have belonged to an officer of the 40th. I'll have to check my books to see where the 40th served. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 10, 2024, 02:55 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,004	Or Pakistani/Kyber Pass/Indian copy. @Mike Irwin. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 10, 2024, 05:55 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,004	The little dots on the receiver reminds me of the Islamic style of decoration. So does that flower on the stock. If the English had engraved it, it would have been very tightly engraved rococco that characterized late 19th Century English engraving. Ditto with the other inlays. They don't scream "English" to me. If it was a real Remington Rolling Block, it could have been "product improved" by some Indian (there was no Pakistan in the 19th Century) somewhere in the Kyber Pass. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 9, 2024, 08:19 PM	#3
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	Do they have any documented history of carrying a rolling block shotgun? If this is a British military firearm I'd just be more confused about what this thing is.

September 9, 2024, 08:56 PM	#5
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	Wouldn't it have British Military war department acceptance stamps on it if it were British Military? My Martini Henry has war department stamps all over it.

September 9, 2024, 08:57 PM	#6
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	I suppose if it were an officer gun it could have been privately owned and wouldn't necessarily have WD stamps.

September 10, 2024, 11:30 AM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,809	I have not seen a Remington Rolling Block with that curled back shotgun style trigger guard. The breechblock tab looks odd. The hammer spur looks replaced, no help there. The receiver is very rounded. There is a step in the receiver ring not on the one I found a picture of. I’m thinking European copy.

September 10, 2024, 05:13 PM	#9
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	If it's a copy or licensed rolling block any way to figure out the manufacturer? I have a hard time buying kyber pass copy. The screw threads and pins seem to be interchangeable and as far as I know a kyber pass gun from this period would have had hand cut threads.

September 10, 2024, 06:08 PM	#11
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	Fair enough, the guy at the gun shop I bought it from said they thought the engravings were Native American. Parts like the receiver and button plate I can see clear machine tool marks as well, which I don't think would be on a kyber pass gun?

September 10, 2024, 06:20 PM	#12
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	I could by it was a European clone that somehow made it's way to India and was engraved out there, but I've spent some time in a machine shop and would like to think I'd know machine cut parts when I see them. To me the receiver looks forged then clean up cut on a mill based on tool marks I see. Threaded holes also look nicely tapped. I wouldn't think entirely kyber pass built guns would have this level of manufacturing sophistication.

September 10, 2024, 06:36 PM	#13
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,004	Metallurgy will tell you a lot too. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 10, 2024, 06:48 PM	#14
Spet37 Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2024 Posts: 8	That is true. If it's all pig iron well then that's that.

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