IBS anyone?

[stagpanther]

Ok, maybe this is a stupid question but you said above you have 6mm BR brass, so I assume you have a rifle that shoots that, can you use that in you first comp the get the process down while you perfect the 30BR?

Very good question, actually. The 6mm BR I had was a low-quality barrel so I decided to "sacrifice" it for the 30 BR. I have other rifles which can shoot well--but the particular comp format I was looking at for this weekend is dominated by 30 BR; so I was just trying to "go with the flow." Yes I'm a whimp with excuses--but I have to budget how I spend my money and weekend travel and accomodations fees are not insignificant, even if the entry fee is.

[stagpanther]

Bushings for the die finally arrived today--I experimented withe various sizes from .329 down to .327; so far what I have found is with the Robinett chamber cut to exactly .330 and expanding the neck to accomodate .308 there is no way to avoid having to turn the neck to remove displaced metal from the shoulder at the base of the neck. I've already destroyed about 30 cases figuring that out! Another thing, the case length has to be reduced to 1.51 prior to the final neck sizing, I don't have the necessary neck turning attachments for my K&M neck turning rig to cut or pilot 30 cal, more stuff I have to order and wait on. The light at the end of of the tunnel appears to be once you finally succeed in getting a case properly fire-formed you can live happily ever after without worrying about these kinds of hassles--apparently the brass should last the life of the barrel!

[stagpanther]

Parts for the K&M neck turner came in. For once I did something smart and also ordered range of neck tension pilots--I found it was impossible to get the OD neck diameter to fit the .330 chamber and also trim using a standard .308 pilot, I had to drop down to .306.

This is the very first cartridge that I succeeding in getting to load a .308 bullet and fits the chamber. Good grief. I'm not sure I have the patience to hassle with making a bunch of these.



BTW--the shell holder is snugged to the handle by a small hex head screw. Do not over-tighten it or the head will snap right off. Here's the proof.

[stagpanther]

Let the record show, that on this day, the 26th of July, 2024--after breaking the set screw off the K&M neck turning tool, shearing the handle off of my Wilson case trimmer and destroying roughly 40 6mm BR cases--I finally succeeded in loading 4 live cartridges of the 30 BR for fire-forming and they actually fit the chamber and cycled from the magazine!!!

No, it's true, I did finally figure out the Rubic's cube that the 30 BR is for a feeble mind like mine.

And here are my 4 little darlings; 125 tipped match kings driven by a low end load of 29 grs of VVN130. The matchkings are a bit on the large side for precision shooting with the 30 BR from what I've read but I have lots of em and I'm going to be using lots of bullets to fire-form the cases.



They fit in MDT's BR magazine perfectly and cycle without any hangups.



Here is the conglomeration assembled--it may seem a bit undignified for a select match grade barrel to be fitted to an Axis action, but I didn't realize I didn't have any other short actions available, so it is what it is until I can pony up the scratch for a Zermatt Origin.

[stagpanther]

I did fire them, after all that trial and error, I honestly had no idea what to expect. I popped my trusty Mark 5 HD scope on, used one of the cartridges to bore-sight in and then shot the next three at the target dot. Looks promising just for a fire-forming load--now I'm motivated to carry on.



Post fire-forming cases:



I'll be selling fireformed 30 BR brass for $50 for each case.

[georgehwbush]

now as per my "looking into it" i'll pass until all the bugs are worked out and brass and dies are everywhere..... not holding my breath, but looks good on paper.

[stagpanther]

From what I can tell, the cartridge has been around for over 20 years but remains a specialty for unique competition shooting. It is a cartridge that is specifically designed--or rather you design it, to form fit with very small tolerances into your specific barrel's chamber with the bullet seated into the lands. Because of that, I don't know if it will ever catch on as a "general purpose" cartridge, like the 6 PPC. Hornady is pretty good at looking at these kinds of things and then figuring out a commercially-viable variant--who knows.

[stagpanther]

Freshly neck-turned case. I'll make a couple finishing passes through the bushing die just to even off the outside before loading the charge and bullet. Now that I seem to have figured out the process and the settings the whole thing beginning to end to produce ready-to-load brass from 6mm BR brass I've managed to get down to about 5 minutes per case to have a case case ready to fire form. As frustrating as the learning process was (and it's quite probable I'm still making mistakes that need to be improved upon) I learned some really interesting new things about precision loading along the way--so that made it worth it.

[georgehwbush]

nice

[stagpanther]

Thanks--almost gave up on this one--now I'm excited about what might be possible.

[stagpanther]

Fire-formed a few more cases today. Just out of curiosity I brought the labradar along just to see where I was--shot these two groups at 165 yards (lost access to the longer lanes again). The numbers were not great, I was averaging around 2,650 fps and the ES was around 25 to 30 fps and the SD was around 12 fps for these two 5 shot groups. Sweet spot velocity for this cartridge is between 2900 and 3100 fps from what I've read, but I wasn't expecting much since I was shooting soft charges around 29 grs. Nonetheless, the groups were pretty good--without the flier in each group would have been even better. Once I get 50 cases formed up I will start serious load development.

[stagpanther]

The last of the Petersen brass to be fire-formed into 30 BR. My goal for now is to do 50 cases each of Petersen and Lapua to start load development.



My goal of this somewhat tedious work is to rework the neck to hold the bigger bullet and set the neck tension and diameter at the same time. The brass flows when being resized and forms a doughnut--more like a tire IMO--at the base of the neck and the brass won't chamber unless that doughnut is cut away and then fire-formed into a smooth transition from the shoulder to the neck. That area is the bright ring in the picture above.

Here are the first 15 cases of Lapua brass I'm starting work on:



The interesting thing that I encountered was the Lapua brass is somewhat different from the Petersen brass; it seems a little harder/denser and has different characteristics upon expansion and resizing than the Petersen brass--the technique I used with the Petersen brass did not work with the Lapua brass and the lapua needed an extra pass through the 308 mendrel. The Lapua was also noticeably harder to trim; and I found I had to carefully clean and lubricate the carbide blade and pilot after each case neck trimming.

From what I've read--groups in the .4 to .5 MOA are not acceptable for this cartridge for competitive shooting and really should consistently produce groups in the .2 to .3 MOA range. Zero one hole groups are supposedly fairly common with the 30 BR (!).

[georgehwbush]

so are you getting 3k ft/s out of your loads yet?

if so would you care to mention the powder and charge weight?

[stagpanther]

so are you getting 3k ft/s out of your loads yet?

if so would you care to mention the powder and charge weight?

Not even close--but I'm not trying to--all I'm trying to do for right now is form up the brass for when I get into the serious load development. Forming the brass is a major undertaking (at least for me, what I've read makes it sound like an easy as pie simple neck up); I found it's pretty tricky getting the right dimensions so that you get the perfect fit and neck tension for the chamber dimensions of your particular barrel. I have 35 more 6BR lapua cases to do and then I'll be ready to go.

As for loads, that's pretty simple--assuming you're lucky enough to find custom bullets; the sweet spot weight range from what I've read is between 110+ and 120- grs (with a specific ogive angle and meplat) and the powders of choice are H4198 and VV N130. I have used both powders in the fire-forming process, haven't noticed much difference between them except that the N 130 seems to foul the bore faster. My first loads will probably be Berger 115 gr bullets since that's all I could find for now. Powder charge weights for both seem to lie in the 30 to 34 gr weight range. From what I've read, once you find the sweet spot load for your barrel, you can "set it and forget it" and not have to fiddle with tuning for different ranges. Two good resources are here and here.

[stagpanther]

At long last--100 fire-formed 30 BR cases ready for load development. It will be a few days before my first "serious" 30 BR loads since a 300 wby mag rifle needs my attention first.

[stagpanther]

I'm working on a 300 weatherby at the moment--but I did manage to sneak in a few of my very first 30 BR development loads using the fire-formed brass while out testing the weatherby. I only managed a couple of 5 shot groups @ 208 yds before having to pack it in as a line of thunderstorms were moving in according to the weather radar.

I didn't do any sorting of the brass or bullets--and using a savage axis receiver and bolt probably knocks a bit of concentricity off the cartridge upon chambering--but the accuracy and consistency are nonetheless quite compelling. I am a believer that a 1-hole .0x group is probably no exaggeration with the right gear and components.

The 115 bergers are not in the same class as the custom BIB or Bart bullets from what I've read, but they did good for me out of my barrel.

This is the first 5 shot group--the shot on the right was definitely my clumsy fault.



Here's the next 5 shot group, this time I managed to hold things together better.



Experienced match shooters probably are accustomed to this kind of performance. I've shot some other very accurate and consistent cartridges--but not one like this in my experience.

[georgehwbush]

wait a minute, what is that other hole?

are you one of those "that's a flier" guys?

just kidding. that's good shoot'N

but i hope that was a zero'ing shot, and not a "flier" i don't believe in fliers, and that is one reason most of my groups are nothing to talk about.

[stagpanther]

wait a minute, what is that other hole?

are you one of those "that's a flier" guys?

LOL--yes--I'm one of those guys. Except that in this case I know it was specifically me that screwed up the shot; I didn't hold the rifle on the bags properly and rolled the rifle as I pulled the trigger. It happens--a lot, actually--when I shoot off the sloping hood of my pick-up truck; which is how I shot these. In other words it wasn't the rifle or the ammo that caused the aberration--it was me.

[stagpanther]

The 30 BR has some unique characteristics unto itself. While fire-forming the brass I made a point of rapid firing 20 cartridges to the point the bull barrel got very hot--upon examining the bore I saw no signs of incipient heat-cutting or cracking.

[stagpanther]

BTW George--with the 115 gr bergers @ 34.2 grs of H4198 I was getting around 3,040 fps. I was getting no pressure signs or bolt stiffness/extraction problems.

[FrankenMauser]

That performance is impressive.
You're making me want one. Except there's nothing to do with one around here. I need a heavier projectile and/or more velocity to meet power factor for the stuff in this area.

[georgehwbush]

frank you could always squirel hunt with it. ;/

but that is a heavy enough pill to put down a lot of things with that kind of velocity. except i'm sure it evaporates pretty quickly. bc is what just over .3 G1 ?

[stagpanther]

I need a heavier projectile and/or more velocity to meet power factor for the stuff in this area.

That was my first reaction as well, I thought it would be a one-trick pony limited to just one competition format.

One day while doing time making 30 BR cases, I had a few 7.62 x 39 cases in the same tray and it struck me that the two cartridges were not very far apart, it occurred to me that the 30 BR was sorta a "super AI 7.62 x 39."

[stagpanther]

I'm not sure why--or perhaps I made an error in sizing and turning the brass--but the Petersen brass after fire-forming remains dimensionally somewhat different from the Lapua brass; I found that the internal capacity appears to be significantly less. I'm speculating the head/web area is probably thicker in spots. I'll have to cut some in half to find out.

[stagpanther]

Debby is moving through Maine right now--but for a brief moment there was a backing off of wind and intensity of rain--and I thought, "why not go shoot?

Probably not great for the equipment, but good practice for less than ideal conditions (I guess). I think I have found a good node for the 115 bergers at 33.8 grs of H4198.