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Old January 16, 2012, 05:05 PM   #76
nate45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellbent
That's the page!! Did you look into the book I previously mentioned? And thanks for a great introduction to this site. I thought it would be a great place for discussion, but it's more like...what would an old-timer say....a p#*@ing contest?

And I suggest you answer them. Prove me wrong, that's what these silly time-wasting rants are all about, right?
Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof.

You are the one claiming the .270 Winchester started life as an experimental military cartridge, not me.

So it is incumbent on you to prove your assertions are correct.

This isn't about rants, nor any sort of debating contest and I'm not picking on you, or trying to bicker.

Its strictly about historical accuracy and if the .270 Winchester was a one time experimental military cartridge, I'd like to know.



PS: Using symbols to defeat the language filter is frowned upon by the staff.
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:54 PM   #77
Mike Irwin
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Settle down, Gentlemen.

Fact...

There was a TREMENDOUS amount of both military AND civilian experimentation into military cartridges going on all around the world before and after World War I.

While I have never heard this specifically about the .270 Winchester, I think it's speculation that does have some interesting merit...

First off, the .270 appears to have been based not on the .30-06 cartridge, but the older. 30-03 cartridge; the case length of the .30-03 and the .270 Winchester are identical at 2.540 inches (I THINK that's the correct measurement).

Secondly, right before World War I the British were investigating seriously replacing the Lee Enfield series of rifles with a Mauser-based rifle firing a rimless 7mm cartridge, the .276 Enfield.

At the outbreak of the war the project was scrapped and the rifle, the Pattern 13, was modified to take .303 British as the Pattern 14.

The Pattern 14 Enfield was later adapted into the Model of 1917 Enfield and used by US forces in the war.

During the war, before US entry, the British approached Winchester and Remington to manufacture Pattern 14 rifles. I have absolutely no doubt that Winchester at that time would have become familiar with the earlier .276 Enfield round were they not already familiar with it.

Dimensionally, the .276 and the .270 Winchester are very similar.

Was the .270 Winchester developed with an eye towards the US military? Possible, but I'm not 100% sure.

After the war military budgets were cut amazingly quickly, and R&D funds dried up for the better part of a decade for anyone other than the Springfield Armory (where the .276 Pedersen cartridge and the M1 Garand were being developed around the same time).

Yes, this is speculation on my part. The true answers would probably be found in Winchester's records.

Finally, Cartridges of the World, while a good publication, is hardly exhaustive.

One only needs to pick up a copy of COTW and compare it against Jean Huon's "Military Rifle and Machine Gun Cartridges" to see just how many experimental AND production cartridges won't be found in COTW.

And, Huon's book is also FAR from exhaustive.
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Old January 17, 2012, 06:56 AM   #78
Mike Irwin
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Thinking about this some more...

While 7mm cartridges weren't all that popular in the United States at the time, they weren't unknown, either.

The .280 Ross had created quite a splash, and the US had been on the receiving end of some bad 7mm juju at the hands of the Spanish. And IIRC there had been at least one older black powder 7mm target cartridge in the US.

Finally, discussions and experimentation for what would become .276 Pedersen were happening around the same time that Winchester would have been developing the .270. I think it's pretty much a given that they would have known about that as some of the original specifications for the US semi-auto rifle were written around a 7mm cartridge.

Interesting speculation.
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Old January 4, 2018, 08:46 PM   #79
Shawn2571
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One big factor also is that once fired .270 win brass is available and can be had for like $15-$20 per 100. Something to consider if your tired of spending $40 for 50 brass. I had to buy .243 brass and resize it to .260 rem to not have to take out a second mortgage to buy brass. I'm sure the ballistics between the 26/06 and .270 is quite similar. And either is good for anything up to large mule deer. If hunting bear I would probably choose a .280 or 30/06 just for the extra bullet weight.
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Old January 4, 2018, 10:05 PM   #80
taylorce1
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Shawn,

I'm glad you figured out how the search function on the forums, but after six years did you need to necromance this topic? Nothing wrong with starting a new thread if you want to discuss something.
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