.45 Colt CAS loads

[sawdustdad]

I just picked up my first .45Colt (a Uberti "cattleman" SA Revolver).

What is your favorite CAS load using 200g RNFP bullets and .45Colt brass?

I've found a bunch of data already, but all the loads I've seen are 750fps or more, which is rather much for CAS. Thinking smokeless powders. (not BP or a substitute). Is 600fps attainable? I've got a bunch of different powders on hand including Nitro100, TiteGroup, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700x, TrailBoss, 231, Unique...plus some slower stuff probably not useful here.

Where would you start?

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I use Trailboss & 250 grain cast bullets... personally I'd start with about a 1/2 case of Trailboss ( grains used, of course out of a loading manual ) figure out what gets you close, & adjust sights as needed ( filed down both my fronts Ruger Montados )

[Sevens]

I don't shoot CAS and I no longer own a .45 Colt hogleg, but the short stint I had with one was annoying. H-U-G-E volume case, very low pressure round... makes for some very wacky loads depending on where the powder happens to be sitting.

I would consider two choices before I ever ventured to anything else:

Trail Boss (which was developed specifically for this purpose) and Titegroup, because Titegroup seems to be perhaps the best powder on the market for not caring about powder position in a large, somewhat empty case.

To that end, I would also get a bigger, heavier bullet to stuff in there and eat of some of that massive real estate.

But before I did any of that, I would track down some hardcore CAS shooters because it seems that they would absolutely have a lot more hands-on experience in this arena.

[FlyFish]

I use 4.5 gr of Trailboss under a 200 gr RNFP bullet. I haven't chrono'd the load, but it's very soft shooting. Be careful using a pistol (i.e., small diameter cavity) rotor with the large, fluffy flakes of Trailboss - when I first started loading with it that's what I did and I got a lot of bridging and some squib loads until I realized what was happening. I switched to the larger-diameter rifle rotor and the problem went away - I assume at the cost of a little more variability in charge, which isn't a problem for this particular application.

[Hunter Customs]

Of the powders you have listed I would choose the Trail Boss as it will fill more of the case capacity.

Be very careful of using light charges of fast burning powders in larger volume cases.

I do have a load with 700X and 200 gr bullets but it's hotter then what you are looking for.

[stubbicatt]

Another option which you might consider is using 45 Schofield brass, as it is shorter, and it may be less sensitive to powder position in the case. Or stated in other words, the powder charge you use may fill more of the case.

I have not tried this, but I have read elsewhere on the Internet that it has been done and used in the 45 Colt chamber. Before trying this, double check my information as, like I said, I have no actual experience in this regard.

Another possibility is using a longer bullet, or filler, or wad stack to take up some of the space in your 45 Colt cartridge.

YMMV

[WIL TERRY]

FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I do not understand all you guys wanting to load and shoot those puny-assed loads. YEE gads ! THAT is the very thing that makes SASS the silly game it has become over the years.
And so it goes...

[Sevens]

I think it is a very safe bet that not a one of those guys hoping to make those loads nor the legions of folks who shoot CAS give half a warm cow flop what you may or may not ever understand, however that goes. Seriously. But certainly a fantastic addition to this thread, bravo.

[WIL TERRY]

R....please understand I do understand bigmouth blowhard answers that show it is far better for folks to think YOU are ignoerent than to open your mouth and leave no doubt.
And take this to the bank ; SASS is the silliest waste of primers powder and lead ever invented to fleece the members of that outfit.
THE LIES SASS EXPOUNDS ARE UNBELIEVEABLE, so you must be a member huh ?
And so it goes...

[jim8115]

Dont know about CAS / SASS , but I load 45 colts for my wife at about 700 FPS from her 3" taurus. Its a 250 grain bullet for Gods's sake, it doest need to be going all that fast to be effective

[Bowdog]

I shoot Ruger's 4 1/2 in. .45 Colt. I load TrailBoss 5.5 gr. 200gr RNFP. If I load any lighter I get residue from unburnt powder. If you race up your action you want to use Federal primers. I shoot Gunfighter and need feed back(recoil) to run smooth. SASS is the only game where you can shoot two loaded handguns (one in each hand) at the same time. Good people, fun sport, many different categories to shoot.

[sawdustdad]

Wil Terry sounds like you were MDQ'd one time too many. As for your comments, nobody asked you what you thought about the game.

To the other folks, thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate the ideas and comments.

I just got back from the range after firing 50 rounds of commercial reloads, primarily to get the brass. I'll be trying TrailBoss in my first reloads. I've got a couple hundred starline brass and some bullets in the mail. I'm shooting .38spl in matches now, so this is just to expand my experience with a new cartridge. The addiction grows...

[Hunter Customs]

I've loaded a lot of different loads in the 45 Colt cartridge using bullet weights of 200gr, 250gr, 255gr, 267gr, and 280 gr, all cast bullets.
My favorite loads are with the 267 and 280 gr bullets.

That being said I have a 3-3/4 inch barrel birds head Ruger that loves 200gr RNFP bullets moving at 900 fps.
I can get a1000 loads from a pound of 700X so it's my most economical load both powder and bullet wise, makes for a lot of cheap plinking.

The fixed sights on that little revolver are dead on with the 200gr/900fps load and the load still packs a pretty good thump.

My favorite hunting load is 12grs of HS6 topped off with a 267 gr WFN bullet moving 950fps, shot from a Cimarron/Uberti 5-1/2 inch barrel Bisley.
The HS6/267gr hunting load will take care of anything in my neck of the woods.

[Crunchy Frog]

I shoot .38s in my cowboy guns although I do load 200 grain bullets in .44 Special and in .45 ACP using Red Dot and Clays, usually around 750 fps.

An old friend who shoots a lot of .45 Colt would recommend black powder!

[TimSr]

I'll first say I'm ignorant about "cowboy actrion shooting". Had to look up CAS to see what it meant. Is this a type of competition with rules on ammo velocity or is it just a matter of light loads for comfortable target shooting and plinking? I understand the concept of old style replicas in the old way, and it interests me greatly, but I don't understand the desire or need to get to lowest possible velocity. The OP asked if 600fps is attainable, and I don't understand why it would be desireable.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

at CAS, we are shooting steel pretty much exclusively... I was at a state shoot a couple years ago, where a 45 caliber lead bullet pounded into a tree, about 5 yards from me ( I was under it for shade ) a good 50 - 100 ft behind & outside of the stage ( someone shooting too hot a load ) I think 600 FPS is a minimum... but maximum loads are discouraged for safety reasons... it's fun / funny to watch the black powder shooters, as often the stages get so full of smoke, the last targets can be difficult to see... looking at those stages, one could imagine how it was so hard to hit someone across a saloon where 3-4 guys opened up fire in doors with black powder guns

as with any type of speed competition, from tractor pulling to CAS, there are those that came to win, & want to garner every advantage they can get... I call them gamers... the 32 H&R magnum guns are quite popular with "the gamers" shooting minimum loads, they have the potential to be the fastest...

I've had my glory days of racing, when I was younger ( not in shooting sports ) I finally got sick every trying to figure out every advantage, & all the BS that goes along with all the pumped up egos...

... don't get me wrong, I'm still competitive... only now I just compete against myself... I run 45 Colt calibers, shoot a rifle length lever action, & a short barrel ( 22" ) side by side rabbit ear shot gun, no 18" coach gun, or slicked up pumps or short stroked lever guns for me... then I keep track of my time totals, & enter them on a spread sheet so I always try to beat my last times out... oh... BTW... I use mid level power 45 Colt loads, that probably best simulate the old black powder 45, & I shoot classic cowboy class, where I wear as much cowboy outfit as I can stand in the summer heat...

funny thing is, I'm no cowboy, outside of CAS, don't hardly ever wear cowboy boots, or ever wear a cowboy hat, though I own 3 different sets of boots & 4 different hats, for CAS use... in fact, I even wear spurs when shooting... I even got into collecting antique watches, solely because I wanted a pocket watch as part of my "outfit" I now have several premium 50's era driver's wrist watches, that also go along with my old car hobby along with about 3 dozen old mostly coin silver or sterling pocket watches...

BTW... SAWDUST... my 1st year, I started with 38 Special, because I had a pair of revolvers, & a lever gun in the same caliber ( it's hugely easier to shoot one caliber in all 3 guns )... but not necessary, I shot against a gal that 1st year, who was shooting her husband's "hand me downs", 3 different calibers between the revolvers & lever action... when I finally picked up a 45 Colt lever gun, I started shooting all 45, & regulated my 38 stuff to the MRS... I have loads ( all mid level ) that shoot well in both the revolvers & the lever guns, & use Trailboss in both my 38 Special loads, & my 45 Colt loads...

this year on nice days or special occasions, I'll be shooting my custom cartridge converted 51 Navies... in 38 Long Colt... a pop gun load at best... not because I think I want to shoot faster, but because the guns are so cool

adjusting sights & developing loads...



as they sit today, ready to do battle

[sawdustdad]

I'm no CAS expert, by any measure, as I've just started in the sport. With respect to the bullet velocity question, 400fps is the minimum, and a power factor of 60 is required. My 125g .38spl loads at 650fps are about 85 on the power factor scale. 200g at 600fps is 120 if my calcs are correct. The reason to keep the power factor down (and, hence recoil) is to keep the gun on target for rapid target acquisition.

[Pathfinder45]

Down loading a 45 Colt that much really does invite ridicule. Especially when you know that, in the old West, a man chose the 45 Colt for its power. I think Wil Terry feels more strongly about it than I. But I can agree with some of his views. Why fool around with a 45 Colt if a 32-20 will serve you better? I know, it's just a game, and you're having fun. I won't go so far to say it's a waste of powder. But c'mon, fellas, a 45 Colt shoots a 250 to 255 grain bullet at 850 to nearly 1,000 fps. Civilians that chose a 45 Colt did so to obtain the most powerful handgun they could get, feeling that even a 44-40 wasn't enough. Later on, after the buffalo and grizzly, and the Comanches and wolves were eliminated, the 32-20 made more sense as game was scarce but there were still plenty of coyotes and the like to deal with.
So, yeah, I think extreme downloading of the 45 Colt to make it competitive with lesser calibers in a fantasy game is more than a little ridiculous. But if you're having fun, by all means, have at it.

[salvadore]

I'm not quite as rabid as WT is concerning cowpoke shooting, even thought it would be fun to try. After watching youtube vids of howdy doody wanna bes shooting nonrecoiling loads I changed my mind. Taffin, I believe, has made some suppository remarks about cowboys and power factors.

[sawdustdad]

To me, CAS is just another excuse to shoot. Even if the game is not your thing, the folks I'm playing with are all very nice guys. And yes, it is fun. The low power loads are as much for safety as target preservation.

If I want powerful loads, I'll use my .44mag or .357mag with full loads. I've loaded 30-06 down to 1300fps with Trail Boss, but I shoot plenty at 2800fps+.

It's all part of taking advantage of the wide range of loads that are available to the handloader. That's why we reload, no? Gotta tinker a bit. YMMV.

[Road_Clam]

Does loading up some mellow 45 cal ammo for my .460 S&W mag categorize as "cowboy loads" ?? Loading up about 12gr or WST using a 250 gr SWC hard cast bullet gets it done nicely ! It's nice taking a break from the brutal recoil smack of the 460 shooting cowboy loads !

[sawdustdad]

Here's a brief follow up to my question with some load results. I loaded 5 rounds each and test fired over my RCBS chrono with my Uberti Cattleman, 4.75inch barrel.

200g HiTek coated Missouri Bullet Co, RNFP, 4.5g Trail Boss, .45 Colt Starline brass. Avg Velocity was 360fps, SD=22. This is below the 400fps min for CAS.

255g Hornady swaged RNFP "cowboy" bullets, 4.5g Trail Boss, .45 Colt Starline brass. Avg velocity was 450fps, SD=9

Will continue to tinker with Trail Boss to try to find a 500fps load for the 200g bullet.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

curious how you could have gotten the slower velocity with the lighter bullets, with the same charge of powder???

[sawdustdad]

That's an interesting conundrum. Seems counter-intuitive, I agree.

I'm no expert, but I believe it's due to more complete combustion/more energetic combustion due to a combination of factors.

Same OAL on both rounds, as well, so the 255g bullet reduced the case volume compared to the 200g bullet.

The 200g bullet was .452 dia, the 255g bullet, IIRC, was .455. I didn't mic them, that's just what was advertised.

Heavier bullet, less case volume, (same crimp), larger bullet diameter, all push pressure higher.

UncleNick or another Pro could probably provide a more technical rationale.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I was also looking at it from the powder coated aspect... those are supposed to seal better & keep from leading... but maybe there is more frictional drag, or ???