300 grain too light in 45 70?

Panfisher · November 15, 2017, 09:13 AM

I was getting g ready to order some cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. To load for a buddy's .45-70 rifle. 1895 Cowboy version . These are intended to be a moderate load suitable for hunting without being brutal. Most of what I see data for is 350 grain and up, is the 300 too light? Seemed like it ought to handle deer and such with ease?

fightthenoise01 · November 15, 2017, 09:39 AM

I shoot 300gr Hornady hollow points at 1800fps with 47gr H4198 out of an 1895GBL. I know cast loads are different but I’ve never loaded for cast so can’t comment. But yeah 300gr is a good weight. The particular Hornadys I use blow up if you run them any hotter but 1800fps seems to be a good pace. I’ve only shot hogs with this load and it performed fine.

NoSecondBest · November 15, 2017, 02:17 PM

I have pages of data from load development over the last seven or eight years that I've saved from loading for half a dozen 45-70s I've owned. I have NEVER gotten any 300 grain bullets to shoot as well as the bullets I've loaded for that are 400 grains and up. There is no need to suffer from excessive recoil either with any bullet in this caliber. To date I have yet to retrieve even one bullet from any of the deer I've shot with "light" Trapdoor loads in this caliber. It doesn't matter the distance or the angle, the Trapdoor loads go through deer like a hot knife through butter....and they shoot great besides. The 350 are marginally better than the 300 grain bullets, but not by a significant amount. The "lighter" bullets are too short for diameter and that doesn't allow them to stabilize as well as the heavier bullets. My best powders for this caliber, which is the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for, are Rel 7, 4198, 2400 with cast, and 5744 with cast. Load them at 1200-1450fps and they only kill on one end....the critter's end. Good luck.

mcnabb100 · November 15, 2017, 04:15 PM

You may have better luck in the trapdoor section of your manual. As nosecondbest stated, even a trapdoor load will be more than sufficient for deer.

I havent shot any cast loads through my marlin yet, havent had it long enough, but I was able to find loads for lighter jacketed bullets in the trapdoor section of my lee manual. I can check it when I get home to see if it has a decent cast section.

You may want to check online, you may be able to find a 300gr load on one of the powder manufacturers websites.

EDIT: I just checked the hodgdon reloading website, they had about 10 differnt 300 grain cast loads in the trapdoor section, 0 in the modern section.

Florida Jim · November 15, 2017, 05:12 PM

Howdy everyone. I'm new to this forum, but I've been reloading for over forty years.

My absolute favorite hunting rifle is a 45 70 Ruger #3.
I have been loading a 300 grain Nosler partition With a healthy dose of IMR 3031. I get about 2,000 fps. My rifle is zeroed to 125 yds, so I'm good out to about 175 yds on deer.

I previously used 300 Hornady hp's, but they tended to blow up at the velocities I was loading, and destroy a lot of meat.
I'm disappointed that I can't get the 300 partitions anymore. 400 grainers are just too punishing with the little #3.

The last deer I shot was at 125 yds (ranged). Shot a little high through both lungs. Exit hole about 50 cent size. He went about 100 yds, and crashed.
All in all I'm very happy with 300 grain bullets in my little #3. They've accounted for a lot of deer, and quite a few hogs.

Kevin Rohrer · November 15, 2017, 09:09 PM

I shoot 300grs lead all the time.

Stats Shooter · November 15, 2017, 10:06 PM

I have been doing a lot of research and working up loads in my 1895 guide gun and H&R Handi Rifle. Both 45-70's

The sectional density of a 300 grain 458 caliber bullet is small at only .204. I can't imagine getting a bullet to penetrate much at that sectional density without a tough jacket or being very hard cast which means no expansion.

I'm loading 400 Grain Speer flat nose at 1850 fps. So far I have shot about 150 of those in 2 weeks. But I'm not recoil sensitive. Try the 350 grain bullets.

GeauxTide · November 16, 2017, 08:08 AM

I used their 405gr offering at 1500fps. Very accurate, but more recoil than I could tolerate.

cpt-t · November 16, 2017, 01:25 PM

Panfisher: I have been shooting and reloading for the 45-70 for 20+ years now, and it is one of my all time favorites. My Son and I both shoot a Marlin 1895 Cowboy Model along with several other 45-70 rifles. And we have tried several different Cast Bullet weights. And what we have found is hard cast 405gr LRNFP bullets perform the best for us. Our reload is a Hard Cast 405gr LRNFP bullet with 35grs of IMR3031 powder at about 1150fps to 1250fps. We use very few Jacketed 45-70 bullets. And we have tried some of the Hot Factory Ammo & Hot Reloads and they are really uncomfortable, and don`t perform that well for us. And I am old and getting more recoil sensitive all the time and this is a comfortable load that you can shoot all day if you want to. We use this load for just about everything we do from Cowboy Action Shooting, Shooting Steel Silhouettes, Shooting Paper, to Hunting Deer & Pigs. We have killed several Deer and Pigs with it. We have never shot anything Side to Side or End to End that we did not get full penetration on.
ken

Panfisher · November 16, 2017, 06:29 PM

Excellent information gentlemen, exactly the kind I was hoping for thank you.

November 15, 2017, 09:13 AM	#1
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	300 grain too light in 45 70? I was getting g ready to order some cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. To load for a buddy's .45-70 rifle. 1895 Cowboy version . These are intended to be a moderate load suitable for hunting without being brutal. Most of what I see data for is 350 grain and up, is the 300 too light? Seemed like it ought to handle deer and such with ease?

November 15, 2017, 09:09 PM	#6
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	I shoot 300grs lead all the time. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

November 16, 2017, 01:25 PM	#9
cpt-t Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2012 Location: South Central Kansas Posts: 125	Panfisher: I have been shooting and reloading for the 45-70 for 20+ years now, and it is one of my all time favorites. My Son and I both shoot a Marlin 1895 Cowboy Model along with several other 45-70 rifles. And we have tried several different Cast Bullet weights. And what we have found is hard cast 405gr LRNFP bullets perform the best for us. Our reload is a Hard Cast 405gr LRNFP bullet with 35grs of IMR3031 powder at about 1150fps to 1250fps. We use very few Jacketed 45-70 bullets. And we have tried some of the Hot Factory Ammo & Hot Reloads and they are really uncomfortable, and don`t perform that well for us. And I am old and getting more recoil sensitive all the time and this is a comfortable load that you can shoot all day if you want to. We use this load for just about everything we do from Cowboy Action Shooting, Shooting Steel Silhouettes, Shooting Paper, to Hunting Deer & Pigs. We have killed several Deer and Pigs with it. We have never shot anything Side to Side or End to End that we did not get full penetration on. ken __________________ THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS NOT FREE:

November 15, 2017, 09:39 AM	#2
fightthenoise01 Member Join Date: January 14, 2017 Posts: 23	I shoot 300gr Hornady hollow points at 1800fps with 47gr H4198 out of an 1895GBL. I know cast loads are different but I’ve never loaded for cast so can’t comment. But yeah 300gr is a good weight. The particular Hornadys I use blow up if you run them any hotter but 1800fps seems to be a good pace. I’ve only shot hogs with this load and it performed fine.

November 15, 2017, 02:17 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I have pages of data from load development over the last seven or eight years that I've saved from loading for half a dozen 45-70s I've owned. I have NEVER gotten any 300 grain bullets to shoot as well as the bullets I've loaded for that are 400 grains and up. There is no need to suffer from excessive recoil either with any bullet in this caliber. To date I have yet to retrieve even one bullet from any of the deer I've shot with "light" Trapdoor loads in this caliber. It doesn't matter the distance or the angle, the Trapdoor loads go through deer like a hot knife through butter....and they shoot great besides. The 350 are marginally better than the 300 grain bullets, but not by a significant amount. The "lighter" bullets are too short for diameter and that doesn't allow them to stabilize as well as the heavier bullets. My best powders for this caliber, which is the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for, are Rel 7, 4198, 2400 with cast, and 5744 with cast. Load them at 1200-1450fps and they only kill on one end....the critter's end. Good luck.

November 15, 2017, 04:15 PM	#4
mcnabb100 Junior Member Join Date: November 15, 2017 Posts: 3	You may have better luck in the trapdoor section of your manual. As nosecondbest stated, even a trapdoor load will be more than sufficient for deer. I havent shot any cast loads through my marlin yet, havent had it long enough, but I was able to find loads for lighter jacketed bullets in the trapdoor section of my lee manual. I can check it when I get home to see if it has a decent cast section. You may want to check online, you may be able to find a 300gr load on one of the powder manufacturers websites. EDIT: I just checked the hodgdon reloading website, they had about 10 differnt 300 grain cast loads in the trapdoor section, 0 in the modern section.

November 15, 2017, 05:12 PM	#5
Florida Jim Junior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Posts: 4	Howdy everyone. I'm new to this forum, but I've been reloading for over forty years. My absolute favorite hunting rifle is a 45 70 Ruger #3. I have been loading a 300 grain Nosler partition With a healthy dose of IMR 3031. I get about 2,000 fps. My rifle is zeroed to 125 yds, so I'm good out to about 175 yds on deer. I previously used 300 Hornady hp's, but they tended to blow up at the velocities I was loading, and destroy a lot of meat. I'm disappointed that I can't get the 300 partitions anymore. 400 grainers are just too punishing with the little #3. The last deer I shot was at 125 yds (ranged). Shot a little high through both lungs. Exit hole about 50 cent size. He went about 100 yds, and crashed. All in all I'm very happy with 300 grain bullets in my little #3. They've accounted for a lot of deer, and quite a few hogs.

November 15, 2017, 10:06 PM	#7
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	I have been doing a lot of research and working up loads in my 1895 guide gun and H&R Handi Rifle. Both 45-70's The sectional density of a 300 grain 458 caliber bullet is small at only .204. I can't imagine getting a bullet to penetrate much at that sectional density without a tough jacket or being very hard cast which means no expansion. I'm loading 400 Grain Speer flat nose at 1850 fps. So far I have shot about 150 of those in 2 weeks. But I'm not recoil sensitive. Try the 350 grain bullets.

November 16, 2017, 08:08 AM	#8
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	I used their 405gr offering at 1500fps. Very accurate, but more recoil than I could tolerate.

November 16, 2017, 06:29 PM	#10
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Excellent information gentlemen, exactly the kind I was hoping for thank you.