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Old March 23, 2018, 10:00 AM   #1
tranders
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Roll pins

I look at my CZ 75 and XD and see roll pins through out both guns. A roll pin is retaining the firing pin on both pistols. My Glocks and 1911s don't have roll pins.

Is my dislike of roll pins unfounded?
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Old March 23, 2018, 10:25 AM   #2
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Is my dislike of roll pins unfounded?
Pretty much....

they work, they're cheap, and generally used in places that are not meant to be regularly taken apart and put back together. (and are relatively low stress)

Some say not to reuse roll pins, that they should be replaced with new pins after being driven out. That may be the best practice, but in my experience, if you don't damage them, the go back in and work just fine.
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Old March 23, 2018, 11:47 AM   #3
BBarn
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I dislike them as well. I understand that they are perfectly suitable for some uses. But they are usually rather soft and they look cheap (with those chamfered ends and that hole through the center).

Often times you need to beat the crap out of them to install or remove them. Then the finish is gone. So when you're done you have a pin with no finish and a hole through it. Sweet.
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Old March 23, 2018, 12:56 PM   #4
tango1niner
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There are slotted spring pins and coiled spring pins, both known as roll pins. When installing or removing them you should be using the right punches.
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Old March 23, 2018, 01:21 PM   #5
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Don't care for them but not a big problem.

Quote:
Is my dislike of roll pins unfounded?
Mostly not as I too do not prefer working with them. However, for the most part, have not presented a big problem. I mostly encounter the coiled variety and some can hold fast and that's good. .....
Might want to keep in mind that you won't be driving these, all that often. ..

Quote:
When installing or removing them you should be using the right punches.
Go for as large as will fit through the hole. ...

Be Sage !!!
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Old March 23, 2018, 04:01 PM   #6
Scorch
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I understand that people don't like roll pins, but people don't like expensive guns, either. Roll pins go in and hold themselves in, not requiring screws or retaining slots for pins. Roll pins are used to keep guns inexpensive. Sad to say, most people think cheaper is better.
Quote:
they are usually rather soft and they look cheap
Yes, they look cheap, but often are as hard as grade 8 bolts.
Quote:
(with those chamfered ends
And how else are they supposed to fit into various size holes with square edges?
Quote:
Often times you need to beat the crap out of them to install or remove them.
No. No, you don't. Use the proper tool and technique.
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Old March 23, 2018, 04:33 PM   #7
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Unless things have changed when I wasn't looking AR gas tubes are held in by a roll pin. So is the breechblock of my Sig P220 Browning marked guns. Two pins, in fact, one inside the other! (and no, its not something I take apart, or plan to..)

There are roll pin punches, they are the best tool for driving roll pins. Standard punches usually work well enough, but if you want the best method, get the right size roll pin punch.
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Old March 24, 2018, 05:23 AM   #8
roadrash
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Yes,the roll pin punch of the proper size will help prevent damage of both the pin and adjacent surface.
There are roll pins and there are scroll pins.
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Old March 24, 2018, 10:00 AM   #9
BBarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
And how else are they supposed to fit into various size holes with square edges?
Roll pins aren't designed to fit into holes of various sizes. They are designed to fit into holes of specific sizes, typically with a +/-.002" tolerance. But since the pins themselves are nominally larger with a similar tolerance, the resulting interference is typically several thousandths, even as much as .010" or more. If you are on the upper end of that interference it can be tough to drive them in even with specific tools. Good fixturing that holds the "hole" piece also helps a lot.

As mentioned, roll pins are mostly used on things that don't need to be disassembled routinely. And in those applications they can be relatively trouble free if they are not used as a wear surface or bearing much load. However, I believe it's worth noting that the use of roll pins is prohibited in some critical applications.

Last edited by BBarn; March 24, 2018 at 11:06 AM.
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Old March 24, 2018, 03:47 PM   #10
tangolima
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Roll pins are made of spring steel. Most solid pins are made of mild steel. I would think roll pins are doing better when it come to wear.

Roll pins are hollow, solid pins are solid. Solid pins are better when it comes to load bearing.

I have never owned any roll pin punch. They are nice to have, but not necessary.

-TL

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Old March 24, 2018, 03:53 PM   #11
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I do not care for roll/scroll pins.

1. It's easy to damage them in the process of removing/reinstalling them, even when using the proper punches.
2. I don't like having to use a hammer to disassemble a gun.
3. It can be really difficult to find replacements.
4. I like assemblies that are held together with ingenious design work rather than brute force/friction. For the same reason, I prefer designs that don't require staking.
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Old March 24, 2018, 04:07 PM   #12
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Its important to realize roll pins come in both inch and metric sizes.Trying to use inch rollpins in metric holes or the reverse will be trouble.
As I recall,AR pins are metric.For example,3mm is .118,and 1/8 in is .125.
Your local hardware store 1/8 pin will be a tough fit in a 3mm hole,even if they look about the same.

The pins do have some interference on the hole,and they are typically harder than the steel the hole is in. If they were not nicely chamfered,they would broach a chip as they are driven in.Think of that if you shorten a pin.

Often the pins are short and getting a good,square start is difficult.Anything less can be disaster.
Here is a tip.Take a fairly long (maybe 3 in) socket head cap screw or grade 8 bolt,hand grind the threaded end clean and square so a drill will start easily.

Simply drill a slip fit clearance hole for the pin maybe two diameters of the pin deep. A lathe works,but if you don't have one,use a drill press.Many drill press vises have a vee-groove in the jaw so the screw will be realtively vertical.
It makes no difference if the hole is off center,.

With that for a punch,its easy to get roll pins started square.Or you can but "roll pin starter punches" from Brownells/Midway.

A true roll pin punch has a little hemispherical bump on the tip that fits the end of the pin.That keeps the punch centered on the pin.Use one to finish driving the pin home.

As in many cases,using proper tools takes the frustration out of the job.

A finish nail for a punch and a crescent wrench for a hammer or a tweezers and a claw hammer does not always work out well.

I'm not a real advocate for roll pins,but they do compensate for some hole tolerance,they don't walk,they are tough,and frankly,where they are used is typically a place that the troop,LEO,operator,consumer ,is not "authorized" to monkey with.
Its someone at an "Armorer" level who should R+R roll pins,and they should have proper tools and spare pins.
The DIY peron ought to plan ahead,tool up,and get a pin kit.

Last edited by HiBC; March 24, 2018 at 04:48 PM.
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