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September 18, 2017, 09:26 AM | #51 | ||
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"State of the art" (which art?) is a peculiar phrase to use for firearms, a technology sneaking up on a half millenium old. It's tough to improve on a well evolved design. More than a decade ago, the "tweel" was set forth as an improvement on the pneumatic tire and wheel, but this improvement has limited application because it also carries disadvantages. I know no one with tweels on his car. The pertinent question seems to be "what will be so much better that it will displace the AR?". A "plasma rilfe in the 40 watt range" may seem neat, but less so if the execution of the new idea isn't well adapted to personal use. If the current layout is essentially a multi-piece pipe, like a more refined sten, and anyone can buy parts to suit his budget and tastes, including very high quality, durable parts that give good accuracy, why would someone move to another layout?
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September 19, 2017, 02:01 AM | #52 |
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Some of the old guard in the Army (and/or the ones getting paid, or are trying to secure after retirement employment) may dream of moving back to full power rifle rounds...
But smart money is on 5.56 being the continuing military round of choice, until we get a big leap in ammo tech. Caseless or polymer cased telescoped rounds... That keep weight similar to 5.56, but with better ballistics. I doubt anything over 6.5mm either... Maybe a long'ish 6mm in the 80-90gr range.. New ammo tech is many years away, and it's not going to hit the civilian market hard for a little while after. The AR pattern rifle (and derivatives) is likely to remain the dominant platform until the arrival of a new ammo tech as well. It may get some tweaks, updates to the spec to include improved tech and materials, but mostly stay inline with the current rifles. With only changes to readily replaceable parts likely. I don't see any major shake up being likely for at least a decade... But that's all just conjecture on my part. Either way, the AR platform will not die for a long time. Too ubiquitous... |
September 19, 2017, 06:30 PM | #53 |
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I won't be surprised if it happens this time around. Reasoning, the 5.56 round can't defeat enemy body armor and it's lethality at longer ranges is a joke. And greater range is where our soldiers are fighting their battles. There also seems to be more of a desire and agreement change is needed. Nothing will happen before 2020. That's when the prototype rifle are suppose to be ready. It won't be the 7.62 cartridge since that is just band-aid until a new cartridge and rifle is selected. Whatever is selected, it will likely be a AR style rifle that is in between the AR15 and AR10.
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September 19, 2017, 07:05 PM | #54 |
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I hope there's no more wars for the USA. I'm tired of wars.
I didn't think that this was a military replacement of the M4/M16 thread. ARs will be around for a century after the USA drops the M16/M4 |
September 19, 2017, 08:20 PM | #55 |
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Barring any outright bans and confiscation, I believe the AR platform will be around for a very long time. There are a lot of them out there, there is a lot of ammo for it, and it works. The round is compact, allowing for a lot of "firepower" in a small package. While some may argue other rounds are more effective, few can say that it isn't an effective anti-personnel round.
Ideally, a replacement would have larger capacity, have little to no recoil, travel faster, be more compact, and be more effective. I imagine an energy weapon such as high powered lasers or energy waves would fit the bill nicely. There would be no need for a long barrel, no need for any actual projectile (meaning no ammo to carry), it would travel at the speed of light, make no sound, and have no recoil. Battery technology would obviously have to resolved first. Even then, bullets will be able to kill people and damage objects. Watch Starwars... Wookies had pretty crude weapons and they were still able to do some damage.
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September 19, 2017, 09:32 PM | #56 |
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The next party in the White House will have lots of retaliatory legislation. In my world view gun rights are tied to one particular party, so that could be s target.
I know this is all speculation, but this whole thread is speculation. There will be more state and local bans for sure and even in the strictest of states, people own ARs still; even though they are pretty idiotic looking. I'm sure there's plenty of m16s still used in the Vietnam region. |
September 20, 2017, 09:55 AM | #57 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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September 20, 2017, 10:25 AM | #58 | |
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One's anxieties may not pan out in the short term, but that doesn't make them paranoid. If winds shift so that Sen. Feinstein drags out her wish list again, that could be a genuine problem.
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September 20, 2017, 10:33 AM | #59 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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September 20, 2017, 10:43 AM | #60 |
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Many politicians state that they want the guns gone.
Acting upon it is a different thing, but they certainly want them gone. I live in a place now that a new restrictions come pretty often and some form of gun control is on most of the ballots. Panics happen out of this, I don't think it's unfounded. There's lots of things people thought the government wouldn't do but it did. The west coast is learning how to restrict guns, it will spread. I don't think they'll make much ground, but don't let you're guard down. Many gun owners don't vote. Many people that vote are seeking happiness from the government, not gun rights.... they could care less. I think AR15s will be around a very long time. But it all depends. Last edited by rickyrick; September 20, 2017 at 10:51 AM. |
September 20, 2017, 12:20 PM | #61 | |
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I understand that markets can be frustrating and that consumers and vendors don't always act to keep prices and supply stable. On the other hand, if you really wanted a PMAG in January 2013 and had $80, there was CTD ready to send it to you. Volatility in the markets reflects a political volatility.
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September 20, 2017, 12:37 PM | #62 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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September 20, 2017, 01:17 PM | #63 | ||
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If you have a gallon of gas or a stuffed animal or a PMAG or the latest israeli bullpup and you are valuing it as a commodity, then what you paid for it is not pertinent. You would base your price on your replacement cost, whatever your next gallon of gas, stuffed animal or Pmag would cost. Setting a price that deters speculators and allows you to maintain an inventory may make buyers grumble, but it isn't wrong. Anticipating that the price on Pmags or israely bullpups may go increase wildly if the bigger, badder brother of the 94AWB were to pass isn't unreasonable. At this point, I believe the more serious hobbyists amongst us have may plans for at least a moderate dry spell in the supply of whatever we normally consume, and we are consequently a bit more picky in what we will buy. In that way, we (the hoarders) have contributed to current market stability.
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October 10, 2017, 03:40 PM | #64 | |
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October 10, 2017, 07:26 PM | #65 |
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They will be around until the Democrats take over all three houses long enough to push radical legislation through and stack the SCOTUS.
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October 10, 2017, 07:27 PM | #66 |
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The AR wont begin to lose popularity until the military adopts a new general service rifle. Until then, enjoy the black rifles!
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October 11, 2017, 09:28 AM | #67 | |
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October 11, 2017, 11:12 PM | #68 |
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^^^what he said ^^^^
91/30s, 1903s, ak47s, sks, FALs and enfields are still popular too. |
October 13, 2017, 11:07 PM | #69 | |
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Service rifles will always have a following. However,
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Basically it has at least 50 years if it were to go out of service right now before everyone young while it was in use. |
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October 14, 2017, 09:29 AM | #70 |
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Interesting question.
I would not call the design "state of the art" However Guns don't really go obsolete do they? they're as good today as the day the first one rolled off the line. Another gun might have attributes you like better but it's not like Air Jordan.. It ain't the shoes. The AR15 is still a solid and well thought out platform, It's modularity and aftermarket support is probably 2nd to none on the market including the AK. Other guns emulate it's buffer tube just to be able to utilize it's butt stocks.. think about that. It's one of if not the most popular semi automatic rifle on the market in America. Look how many people are building them? it's like with the 1911 just about every company is a meetoo producer. So to answer how long will it be around? well it was designed before I was born and probably be made after im gone. At the prices the AR stuff is selling for right now I see no reason not to get one if you don't already have one. |
October 14, 2017, 11:34 AM | #71 |
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October 14, 2017, 12:42 PM | #72 |
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Well the AR platform is 60 years old, so it's hardly state of the art. The main thing is it got people thinking differently about gun design, like Glock. The platform will evolve and the flaws fixed.
When I was looking to get back into shooting and looking for a rifle, I thought I'd get a Remington 700. Then I saw an article on AR's, did more research, and realized it's a design that makes a LOT of sense. |
October 14, 2017, 12:48 PM | #73 |
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Yes. I don't see them gong anywhere for quite awhile , I personally love them
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October 17, 2017, 10:11 AM | #74 | |
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And M14 clones are still manufactured new. Not to mention the interest in surplus military rifles. Pretty sure that most Mosin Nagant owners never carried one in combat in their youths. |
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October 17, 2017, 03:04 PM | #75 | |
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Garands were post WW2 surplus and even saw some action in Korea. So the surplus stockpile lasted for decades...this implies a time lag from last service until civilian popularity wanes. i didn't say they totally vanish either, or that there are not some groups out there keeping it alive. Only that the popularity as a percentage of total shooters declines. However, because there hasn't been much in the way of technological improvements in firearms beyond just building lighter rifles and a bit better bullets and barrel alloys, the Garand isn't really out dated like a musket is or a cap and ball rifle. Therefore, their following will stay strong until that changes. |
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