Cowboy Revolver, Which one ?

[Hylander]

OK, I'm going to order a new Cowboy .45 Colt 5.5"
Can't decide which one
Really like the Uberti 1873 and also like Vaquero but leaning more to the Uberti.
However there are several models and not sure what the differences are.
Such as the Cattleman.
There is the Old Cattleman, new frame Cattleman, Cattleman II
The Gun Fighter, the Gambler
Heeeelp

[Targa]

I dont know all the differences but there guys on here that have forgotten more about revolvers than I will ever know, maybe they will chime in. As for me, give me a Uberti/Cimarron case color hardened finish in .357 or .45 lc please.

[cpt-t]

Hylander: I have no experience with Uberti Pistol`s so I can`t help You there. But I have been Shooting Original Ruger Vaqueros since they came out in the 1990`s. In about every Barrel length Ruger makes. And most of them are in 45LC`s and Stainless Steel. And I have never had any type of of a problem with any of them I use them for just about everything. I am a die hard Ruger Fan and IMHO You would be hard pressed to find a better SA Cowboy Gun. Than a Ruger Vaquero or a Blackhawk.
ken

[redrick]

I would stay away from the Cattleman II , it has a new designed trigger & hammer firing system . They call it the retractable firing pin , the firing pin only comes out when you pull the trigger and if you like your gun to have 4 clicks , it now only has 3 with this new retractable firing pin. I think they are worried about the lawyers now . By the end of this year I was told by a Uberti Rep. that all of there SAA revolvers would have this system .

The Old Cattleman and New Frame Cattleman , the only difference that I know of is how you remove the cylinder , Old has a screw and New has a push pin .

Gun Fighter , the difference is the length of the grip , it is longer than the Cattleman grip . Some Gun Fighters can come as deluxe models that come with a action job like the El Patron . Taylor's does there's in house . I would recommend the Smoke Wagon Deluxe . The Cattleman , The El Paton and Smoke Wagon have the shorter standard length grip similar to the Colt . The Cattleman has smooth grips , the El Patron and Smoke Wagon have checkered grips and I believe so does the Gun Fighter .

When Uberti goes to the retractable firing pin I will start buying Vaquero's , at least I can carry with all six and it is a stronger revolver with a great warranty standing behind it if you should need it .

[fourbore]

. By the end of this year I was told by a Uberti Rep. that all of there SAA revolvers would have this system .

Time for me to finally get that Uberti.

[Screwball]

I don't do CAS, but wanted a SAA type pistol...

I went with the New Vaquero Convertible in .45. Having other .45 ACP pistols/rifles, I do keep the caliber... and being an off duty caliber, I have a good amount of it. The conversion cylinder was something I wanted. Yes, it isn't something exact to a SAA, but it does the job.

I also got a Uberti 1860 Henry Steel frame in .45 Colt, being I wanted to pair it up with a rifle.

[jwise]

I have had my Vaquero since 1998. It is big, heavy, has a fine hammer action and trigger, and is stainless steel.

My Uberti 1873 El Patron, on the other hand, is light, fast, has an incredibly smooth and fast hammer action and trigger. The color case hardened frame is beautiful.

[bedbugbilly]

Everyone has their favorites - makes, styles and calibers.

I own a number of handguns - more than I need! I have shot SA for 50 some years and right now, besides C & B, my "cowboy" guns include -

Uberti Cattleman 7 1/2" 45 Colt
Uberti Bisley - 4 3/4" .357
Ruger New Vaquero - 5 1/2" .357

I only shoot reloads - smokeless & BP - and only cast bullets that I cast from a variety of molds.

All that I have are excellent revolvers and well made. If I had to put them in order of preference, it would be as I've listed them above. I love the 45 Colt - the Uberti is accurate and fun to shoot - but,if you don't reload, then the cost of ammo can get to you.

The Bisley is an excellent shooter as well and mine eats a lot of 38 specials and I even reload 38 Colt Long and 38 Colt Short for it as well.

I like the Ruger NV but I really need to have the cylinder throats reamed larger. Ruger is notorious for undersized throats which are under bore size. A competent smith can take care of that though.

The throats on my Uberitis were just fine when from the factory. Example - my Uberti 45 Colt has a bore size of .452 and the throats are just about right on .454. I use the traditional 255 grain RPFN cast bullet and it drops with my alloy at right around .453 - .454 so I just shoot them unsized and tumble lubed for smokeless and finger lube them for BP with BP lube. I ran across a box of 500 commercial cast 255 gr RNFP that were .452 and they shoot just as accurately as my slightly oversize cast do. No problems with either as far as bore leading.

Pick what you like in the caliber and barrel length you like and then don't second guess yourself - you'll enjoy whatever you get. If I could only have one, it would be my 7 1/2" 45 Colt as I like to play with it at 50 yards and the longer barrel and sight picture works better for me. My next one will be with a 4 3/4" barrel though as it will be an easier carry on walks, etc. on the farm and for just fun plinking at shorter ranges. Good luck and enjoy!

[dgludwig]

When Uberti goes to the free floating firing pin I will start buying Vaquero's , at least I can carry with all six and it is a stronger revolver with a great warranty standing behind it if you should need it .

Though Ruger doesn't offer a warranty, per se, they have a good reputation for standing behind their products and offering great customer service.

If you want a single-action revolver that will stand up to hard use as well or better than any other ever made, you can't beat a Ruger. Being able to safely carry the revolver with all six chambers loaded is icing on the cake for some folks.

[mehavey]

Vaquero ≠ Traditional/Colt-Design SAA (period)

Point(s) of reference:
- New-Model Vaquero in 45 Colt
- New Model Uberti/Cattleman/"Smokewagoned" in 44-40
- New Model Uberti/Cattleman/"Taylored" in 32-20

The New Vaquero is Colt SAA in size only. Otherwise the action is very "coil-springed"
in feeling. Stiff/Lumpy at start and then rolling off as the hammer completes coming
back. It is, however, about 50% stronger than SAAMI spec (14ksi spec vice 21ksi NV)

The Uberti's, in contrast are like liquid in cocking/rotation throughout the cycle.
Pure mercury. Smooooooth as silk -- and w/ modern materials able to take "more" ()
pressure than SAAAMI. (But NOT as a steady diet like the NV/Ruger.)

I like the floating firing pin.
I like the first notch "safety" that pulls the firing pin off the #6 cartridge.
I like the FOUR clicks in the action as it cycles. (Yes -- 4 )
I like the out-of-the-box cylinder throats reamed to correct dimensions for cast.
I like that the barrel's actually vertical (i.e., correct windage on that fixed sight)

And I like the accuracy.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show....php?p=6405308
Other than the above, I have nothing good to say about the Uberti's.




** Don't get me wrong. I like the New Vaquero. And the Cattleman(s) both have action jobs
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...2#post-9718468

[jaguarxk120]

Mine has the four clicks, but you have too listen very closely for the last one.
Bought it used it is 21 years old, sometime in the past a smith did a action job on this gun. When the cylinder rotates the bolt drop's into the locking notch at exactly the right time.

[redrick]

The Cattleman II does not have the 4 clicks , with the retractable firing pin it lost the first click ( safety notch ) . The Cattleman for now has the four clicks and not the retractable firing pin .

Go to Uberti's website for a look . I have handled one and sent it back for the Cattleman . Like I said soon all of there SAA will have this retractable firing pin system from what I was told by a Uberti Rep. after I questioned him about it . He said they asked Uberti not to change the whole line to that system and they told them that there was no way around it .

If you have one with the four clicks it does not have the retractable firing pin system . When they started putting that in the Cattleman II , I do not know .

[TruthTellers]

If I had the disposable income and the gumption, I would rather have a Uberti Cattleman in either Nickel or the Old West models. Mmm... Old West.

I'm sure the Ruger Vaquero is fine and with the Ruger phoenix on that revolver you're guaranteed good customer service, but when it comes to SAA clones, all I want is the best looker and the Uberti wins that hands down.

Then again, Ruger does make some Vaqueros with a .45 ACP cylinder and I do love me some .45 ACP in a revolver. Also, Ruger does offer some with the Bisley grip.

I don't think you can go wrong with either, perhaps it's best if you just get both.

[mehavey]

Sure sounds like 4 clicks to me.
(Actually had my wife count them)
And the pin is definitely floating.

What is the issue here?

[Hylander]

Thanks for the input,
I handled a Pietta Frontier today and a couple Vaquero's, the Vaquero's
are definitely heavier and feel bulkier.
I am starting to settle on the Smoke Wagon

Can't really decide on 4.75 or 5.5" though

[jackmoser65]

It is, however, about 50% stronger than SAAMI spec (14ksi spec vice 21ksi NV)

Strength is the same.

[mehavey]

Negative.

Read Pearce:
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...246partial.pdf
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...34_preview.pdf

"Loads in the 20,000 psi range
will prove useful for U.S. Fire
Arms revolvers that are 100 percent
American made (after the
year 2000), Colt New Service,
Ruger New Vaquero and Smith &
Wesson post-World War II NFrames,
including Models 25 and
625 Mountain Guns. Loads in
the 32,000 CUP range should be
limited to Ruger Blackhawk...."

I do NOT recommend hotrodding the NV. But Pearce's Tier-II(-) RCBS 270-SAA(277gr actual)
/titeGrp@8.1gr is my standard/heavy load in the New
Vaquero, going out at 975fps.
Overloading that small/light a handgun will become unpleasant long before it becomes unsafe.

[TruthTellers]

It's a cowboy gun. Why would you want to push the .45 Colt up to 20k PSI? Cowboys weren't shooting their six guns at pressure 30% that of normal. If you want to shoot stouter .45 Colt loads then get a Blackhawk.

Shoot standard pressure .45 Colt through the Uberti and it will last many decades.

[mehavey]

The (New) Vaquero is more than a "Cowboy" gun. With that Std-Heavy 270gr
it is perfectly point-blank zeroed ± 1¼" for hunting out to 50 yards.
(It's big 7½" brother took three mule deer back in the mid-70's with a
lighter (250gr) bullet going less than that speed.)

It's a tool.

- Relatively light
- Far more Compact
- ...and very useful


Now if you're talking the Uberti(s) -- they stay standard pressure.
But then they're 44-40 & 32-20 and not in the same league as the 45 Colt.
(Although they will also kill critters in their class very, very dead)

[Hylander]

I want it for a Cowboy gun to have fun with at standard pressure loads.
Already have a BH if I want to go Boom instead of Bang.

[redrick]

My mistake in wording , it is called a retractable firing pin on the Cattleman II . The firing pin protrudes when pull the trigger and retracts when you take your finger off the trigger . It does not have the first small click notch with this system , the notch that is the safety notch on the other models , so you only have 3 clicks now and all of their SAA are going to this system by the end of this year I was told .

I do like the 4 click models better than the Vaquero's ,but not the retractable firing pin models .

If you want an Uberti that is more like the insides of a Colt don't get the Cattleman II or any that have the retractable firing pin .

[mehavey]

Both Uberti's -- the 44-40 and the newest 32-20 are "New Model".
In that they have a spring-loaded button retainer on the cylinder
pin and crescent-shaped ejector rod tab.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ube...single-action/

But then Taylors describes these exact features:
A New Model frame includes a steel, forged frame with widened
sights, spring-retained cylinder pin, and modern crescent shaped
ejector tab.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-...del-frame.html

On neither does the firing pin automatically retract when the trigger
is released, and both have four clicks.


Someone make me smart here....,

[Hylander]

Leaning toward the SmokeWagon,
Does it have the retractable firing pin ?

Also what say you? 4.75" or 5.5"
Which balances better ?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

There are several confusing terms being bandied about in this thread. Perhaps I can add a little bit of clarity.

'New Model' 'Old Model' Uberti

When the Colt Single Action Army first came out in 1873, the cylinder pin was held in place by a screw that angled up from the front of the frame. You can see the screw in this photo of an old Colt. It is at the front of the frame just under the cylinder pin. Notice how subtle the screw is, mostly buried in the frame of the gun. Colts from this era are said to have the Black Powder Frame. More about that in a little bit.







Colts from this era had what is known as a bullseye ejector rod handle. Basically the shape of a donut with a hole in the center.







The problem with the old angled screw was you needed a screwdriver to take the cylinder out of the gun for cleaning. And in the Black Powder era, you needed to clean the cylinder pretty often. So in 1892 Colt started phasing in the modern transverse, spring loaded cylinder pin latch on a few target models. By 1896 it was a standard feature.







At some point, I'm not really sure when, Colt changed the shape of the ejector rod handle to the present crescent shape.





OK. So Uberti or Taylors, or somebody is playing around with terms here. What they are calling the New Model is simply the way the Colt has been made for well over 100 years, with the spring loaded cylinder pin latch and the crescent shaped ejector rod handle. The 'Old Model' is what they are calling the guns with the Black Powder frame now. Uberti has cashed in on the appeal of the older design, mostly because of the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, and is building some of their replicas of the SAA with the old fashioned Black Powder Frame, with the angled screw and bullseye ejector rod handle.


But take a look at this websight again. Notice how Uberti has changed the shape of the angled screw from the original. It is now a big, ugly, knurled screw that sticks far out of the frame, nothing like the original design.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ube...single-action/


The reason is obvious. The screw head sticks out from the frame and is knurled so you don't need a screw driver to remove it, supposedly you can grab it with your fingers and remove it if it has not been torqued down too much. Personally, I think anybody who buys this design is kidding themselves if they think it is duplicating the old Black Powder Frame design. You can buy a replacement screw that duplicates the design of the original, but what's the point? Then you go back to needing a screwdriver to remove the cylinder. The transverse spring loaded design has been around for a long time, and it works fine and you don't need a tool to remove the cylinder pin if you want to wipe off the cylinder and the cylinder pin at the range.

But I digress.

One other thing. Shooters ask all the time if they have to shoot Black Powder only in a revolver made with the old fashioned Black Powder frame. If it is an original Colt, yes, absolutely. Colt did not warranty the Single Action Army for Smokeless Powder until 1900, several years after the modern transverse spring loaded latch appeared. But the modern replicas with the Black Powder Frame made with modern steel are perfectly fine for Smokeless Powder.



"Clicks"

What is it with guys who have to hear four clicks when they cock the hammer? Do they really think that makes the gun better? I have 1st Gen Colts and 2nd Gen Colts that have all four clicks. I have an Uberti Cattleman that has all four clicks. I have Ruger Three Screws that have four clicks. I have Rugers I have converted with half cock hammers that have three clicks. And I have Ruger New Models that only have two clicks. The only time you can hear all four clicks is when you are fondling the gun while watching an old Western on TV. At the range, if you hear all the clicks you are not paying attention to your shooting, and are cocking the hammer awfully slow.

Just my opinion of course, do with it what you will.




I cannot comment much on the newest Uberti design with the firing pin that withdraws into the hammer when the trigger is released. I first saw a video about it back last spring I think. I have not seen one yet. I doubt if I would buy one, but I don't buy many new guns these days anyways.

Here is the video I saw about the new Uberti design back in March of 2016. The discussion about the new hammer design appears about half way through.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbnlwovDTw8


Here is Uberti's blurb about the new design. Note: This video incorrectly mentions Transfer Bar technology. This design does not use a Transfer Bar in the sense that Ruger uses a Transfer Bar. It is more properly an actuator bar that shoves the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled. When the trigger is released a spring retracts the firing pin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOGRmMtFow


Rugers: the 'original model' Vaquero was manufactured from 1993 until 2005. It was nothing more than the standard Blackhawk model with the top strap recontoured to the shape of a Colt and the adjustable sight removed. Had the same Transfer Bar type of action as all New Model Rugers making it completely safe to carry with six rounds under the hammer. The 'original model' Vaquero was discontinued in 2005 with the introduction of the New Vaquero. (A really dumb choice of names, what are they going to call the next one, the Newer Vaquero?) The New Vaquero is simply a scaled down version of the older model. The old Blackhawk design was larger in size than a Colt, and the older Vaquero model was the same size. The New Vaquero more closely duplicates the dimensions of the Colt. As with all Rugers, there are no leaf springs inside a New Vaquero, all have been replaced with coil springs. this also increases the part count because all the coil springs need a plunger to transfer its energy to the part is works. Other parts of the mechanism of a Ruger are radically different than the old Colt design too, particularly the way the cylinder stop is actuated. Rugers can be a handful to take apart and get back together again, but there are excellent videos on the Ruger website showing how to do it. Does a Ruger feel different than a Colt? Of course it does. But I can tell you I bought my first Blackhawk in 1975, and never felt that it was a particularly clunky gun.

Leaning toward the SmokeWagon,
Does it have the retractable firing pin ?

I'm pretty sure no, but why not call up Taylors and ask?

Also what say you? 4.75" or 5.5"
Which balances better ?

Completely subjective decision. It's up to you, you will have to handle them to decide. There were three standard barrel lengths for the SAA, 7 1/2" 5 1/2", and 4 3/4". The most popular barrel length was 5 1/2". Personally, I never much cared for the appearance of the 5 1/2" barrel, always looked boring to me. I like the extremes.




Two other things. Some of these replicas are sold with finishes they call 'charcoal blue' or various funky names. A very bright, almost robin's egg blue. It is not a robust finish, I had a Cattleman with that finish and within a year the blue had all worn off the backstrap simply from the sweat of my hand. Modern blues are much more robust.

Also, be sure what type of rear sight you are getting. Many of the modern replicas come with a narrow 'V' type rear sight, just like on the early Colts. Much more difficult to sight in than a more modern squared off rear sight.

This photo shows the squared off rear sight of a 2nd Gen Colt on the left, and the 'V' groove of an Uberti Cattleman on the right. Even though the 'V' groove is more authentic to the older designs, I find the squared off 2nd Gen rear sight much easier to use with my old eyes.

[Pathfinder45]

Driftwood; thanks for your excellent post.