off the lands?

[NHSHOOTER]

When setting up my new dies to reload my 223, how far off the lands should my bullet be? I do have the hornady OAL gauge and the dummy cartridge will be here tonight.

[jwrowland77]

Well, it really all depends on what your rifle likes and sometimes the bullet you're using and also depends on rifle application.

I generally start mine at around .03 off the lands, do my workup, then I start fine tuning. The closer to the lands you get, the higher the pressure will be. Some folks like them touching the lands, some don't. Some bullets like it touching or a little into the lands, some don't.

Also really depends on application. You using it as a hunting rifle, where a quick follow-up might be needed, in which case, you should have a max no longer than what can be reliably cycled through the magazine. If using for competition, where you single load, then you can go longer.

[mehavey]

Start 15 thou (half a paperclip) off at first.
Some say 10, some 20. Split the difference.

Individual bullets/designs will result in different OALs for the same standoff. Take care...

[CarJunkieLS1]

All rifles are different...I have a .270 that when I pushed the bullet closer to the lands (.020) the accuracy opened up to right at 1" groups. I have it set .045 off now and its a .5" grouping gun everyday. Like I said all rifles are different but a good place to start is .030 off the lands.

[Jerry45]

Actuall jwro is correct. Start .002 to .003 off the lands. Find what powder charge shoots best then start moving the bullet farther off the lands until you find where your rifle/bullet combo is happiest. Mine likes my hunting bullet .002 off the lands and target bullets .040 off.

[mehavey]

I believe JWRO suggested 20-30 thousands (0.020-0.030") off the lands as a blind starting point.
Once you begin trying for 0.002" or less, you are in a statistical crap game of OFF the Lands/INTO the lands.

Best use 5 thoundsths (0.005") as your step -- and you CAN find 0.005" INTO the lands is superbly accurate...
...but also (possibly) risk pulling bullets from the case/dumping powder when undloading a live cartridge
in the field.

[cw308]

Are you going to load 1 round at a time for accuracy in a bolt action. What type of action. Are you fire forming your cases or full sizing. Need alittle more info.

[NHSHOOTER]

I have already shot my rifle, a New Tikka 223 and I have found that loading 1 round at a time is a PIA, works much better from the magazine. I bought both a full length and a neck sizing die, I plan on fire forming my cartridges. I am shooting for accuracy. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Brian Pfleuger]

When setting up my new dies to reload my 223, how far off the lands should my bullet be? I do have the hornady OAL gauge and the dummy cartridge will be here tonight.

There is absolutely no magic number.

You first have to find your rifling.

Second, you have to determine if a round loaded to approach the rifling will even fit in your magazine and if it will properly feed if it does fit.

After that, you can begin experimenting.

[jwrowland77]

NH, if you don't want to load one at a time like what I'm reading as you mentioned it was a PIA, load to mag length then.

[cw308]

If loading for accuracy PIA is the way to go. As others are saying you are liminated to magazing length.Also you don't want to heat up your barrel to mush, cuts down barrel life. I fire 1 round at a time and dry fire 4 times between shots, thats how I pase myself for accuracy. Hope I helped in some way. Be Safe Chris

[NHSHOOTER]

I checked my overall length and dropped back .015, tried the round in my magazine and it fed properly so I went back another .005 and will work up from there towards the lands, I really appreciate all the feedback when I have a question, hopefully I too can be of help some day.

[BuckRub]

Just go with .020 or .030 or wherever. When you get someplace most times you can play with charges and move groupings. Haven't seen where seating changes much. Different bullets and weights and different powders and charges do more changes. And don't waste your time with neck dies. Sounds accurate Only.

[mehavey]

"Haven't seen where seating changes much...."

See:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...12&postcount=1

...for brief discussion/data of effects with a Win70/30-06

[Jim243]

Individual bullets/designs will result in different OALs for the same standoff. Take care.

You need to measure for each new bullet type you load, not just for weight but for mfg as well. Each will have a different profile.

As a rule of thumb, (I use the same gauge) I first get the max OAL and back off that by 0.050 inch. But as many have already said, if you are loading for an AR-15 that 2.250 will be your max oal for your mags.

Jim

[Jerry45]

With SMK 53 gr. My 223 bolt gun shoots 1/4 MOA with bullets set 0.002 or 0.040 off the lands. Anything inbetween or over 0.040 and groops open up to as much as 1.5 MOA. bullet seating makes a big difference if one is looking for smallest groops.

You can start well off the lands and work in or start in tight and work out. The end result will be the same. The key is finding what powder charge works best then fine tuneing bullet depth. You will be limited by magizine length. You WILL have to do workups for each different bullet weight and type and different powders. You may find more than one OAL that gives the same result. You may not. It's the nature of the beast.

[Sierra280]

I've always been told that the 'sweet spot' is usually somewhere between .005 and .015 off the lands. But like everyone else said, you just have to play with it until you find the magic length.

[tobnpr]

I start at .02 and work in...

Often, no jump is best. Just another part of load development, you gotta play with it.

[BuckRub]

So accuracy is basically finding that perfect jump or no jump (seated to with no jump) ? Do you think it has really nothing to do with charges or different powder ? I'm really not so sure as to say seat deeper or less until you find that sweet spot. When we load a cartridge we need to find a powder which is right for that grain bullet and that grain bullet which is for that twist rate and I believe it has to do with finding that sweet spot on which powder charge to find that perfect whip action of your barrel to make that bullet fly at the perfect fps for that bullet. Add alittle more powder or less OR seat bullet deeper or less which in turn makes the cup pressure higher or lower and in turn speeds up fps or slows and basically you're now doing the same. You're creating something that makes the bullet faster or slower and it creates the whip action or harmonics of the barrel to change while in search for that jagged hole. I know I'll get alot of flack for thinking this way because so many probably got all this reloading all figured out. Not me, still learning but there are certain things I kinda lean towards.

[Bart B.]

Buckrub, you're pretty much right. Only comment is, barrels whip and wiggle at the same frequency for every round fired. The barrel's the same for each round. The amount of whip is a tiny bit more with higher pressures, but insignificant within a given load

[royesses]

Here is a pretty good read on the subject from Berger bullets, 2 part article.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects...e-cbto-part-1/

[BuckRub]

Bart B. -does the whip action of a barrel whip more (ever so slightly) with more compression. That's kinda the way I had it figured. So basically everything coincides with everything. For my particular rifle I need to make that perfect trigger squeeze while trying to hold gun at best with same pressure as other times and my bullet like I tried to describe in previous post all needs to be set up right for my barrel. Yes you can do tiny things here or there. Slightly bump pressure or tiny seat bullet.
I'm by far no where near yourself or UncleNick on this. Have no training on any kind of this just an ole boy whose been shooting in my yard for the past 20 something years and gathering up any info that I see working or that makes since to me. There's far more than I care to type on this cell phone and its alot more to it than just seating a bullet at .020 or anywhere really and alot more than just grabbing a lb of powder and start shooting. It's fun learning along the way , trying different things and seeing different things. It's really cool when you got everything right and that sucker will shoot a ragged hole (got two of those ).

[BuckRub]

Bart B. - care to explain alittle more on what we were talking about. Maybe PM me or start a new thread so we're not hijacking this one. In you're last post you said the only thing was one comment... I would like to hear more Thanks.