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Old July 1, 2020, 09:31 AM   #1
ghbucky
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I'm surprised there aren't threads about this...

Maybe I'm missing a rule somewhere.

A couple of recent real world events have really made me think about how I would respond, and what is the 'proper' trained response?

I've been seeing, lots of situations where people driving along and getting mobbed by protesters (in Provo, UT a driver was even shot trying to get through a crowd)
Provo incident: https://universe.byu.edu/2020/06/30/...ng-at-protest/

If I'm carrying, do I fire back? Drive out?

The other situation was the armed homeowners dealing with a mob that had broken into their private property. Their gun handling was atrocious, and a tragedy was just a gesture away, but they did successfully defend themselves and their property.

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...0-000d40a89e78

What would be the proper response to something like that? Stay in the house and call the police (he stated in an interview that he believed he was on his own)?

I guess there is a reason I haven't seen discussions about this here, and if I missed a rule, I'm sorry and feel free to delete.
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Old July 1, 2020, 05:50 PM   #2
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You might find something in the forum "General Dicussion".
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Old July 1, 2020, 09:21 PM   #3
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depends on the laws of the state you are in. For reference I am not a lawyer or giving legal advice. My understanding is, in the state in which I live, I can use deadly force to protect myself or a 3rd party from death, serious bodily injury, or a forcibly felony. Thus if my vehicle is getting mobbed, i am in fear of serious bodily injury, and am being criminally confined, a forcible felony, i would probably use my vehicle(deadly force) to try to get out of the situation. In the second situation I would probably feel criminally confined to my property and in fear of serious bodily injury. That said the obvious choice for me would be to lock the doors and call the police. First molotov i see, or someone trying to come in would be time to engage.
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Old July 2, 2020, 08:04 AM   #4
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I live in a rural area, so I am not very concerned about protesters coming to my home, but the possibility of getting caught in a riot/violent protest while traveling on the road does concern me. Thank goodness, I don't travel that much, and I always try to avoid the big cities, especially the inner cities. But, only a couple of years ago, I missed my exit, and ended up having to drive all of the way through downtown Atlanta while on a trip, and this inexperienced country boy, always seems to end up in the wrong part of town.

If I got caught in a riot, and I hope I never do, but if I do. Ah hell, I don't even want to think about it! I wouldn't travel to a big liberal city, right now, period, for any reason, that I can think of.
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Old July 2, 2020, 09:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
I live in a rural area, so I am not very concerned about protesters coming to my home, but the possibility of getting caught in a riot/violent protest while traveling on the road does concern me. Thank goodness, I don't travel that much, and I always try to avoid the big cities, especially the inner cities. But, only a couple of years ago, I missed my exit, and ended up having to drive all of the way through downtown Atlanta while on a trip, and this inexperienced country boy, always seems to end up in the wrong part of town.

If I got caught in a riot, and I hope I never do, but if I do. Ah hell, I don't even want to think about it! I wouldn't travel to a big liberal city, right now, period, for any reason, that I can think of.
I used to think like that. Then I saw what happened to a tiny little town about an hour East of Cincinnati:
https://www.telegram.com/zz/news/202...mall-town-ohio

They are telling us they are coming for us. I think we might want to listen.
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Old July 2, 2020, 10:03 AM   #6
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You will know, when the time comes' I hope it doesn't

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If I'm carrying, do I fire back? Drive out?
The best advice I was given by one of my instructors "is".....

If you have to walk on ice make sure it's plenty thick...….

He also said that there is a lawyer, riding on every bullet. …..

Be Safe !!!
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Old July 2, 2020, 11:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
The other situation was the armed homeowners dealing with a mob that had broken into their private property. Their gun handling was atrocious, and a tragedy was just a gesture away, but they did successfully defend themselves and their property.
That's open to debate. The protesters were on the street, and may have passed by on their way to their target- the mayor's house. It took place on a private road, I don't know if the courts would support stand your ground or castle if they opened fire.

Personally I'd have been scared under those circumstances. But the elevation from a second story window combined with the protection of a literal stone mansion may have been a better approach. Especially if you kept your mouth shut and just watched. They also could have avoided all the negative press they got.

Lawyers with guns and money, they're lucky it didn't hit the fan.
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Old July 2, 2020, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainah
Quote:
The other situation was the armed homeowners dealing with a mob that had broken into their private property. Their gun handling was atrocious, and a tragedy was just a gesture away, but they did successfully defend themselves and their property.
That's open to debate. The protesters were on the street, and may have passed by on their way to their target- the mayor's house. It took place on a private road, I don't know if the courts would support stand your ground or castle if they opened fire.
What is not open to debate is that the protesters were on private property. The street in question is a private street, and the protesters broke through a wrought iron gate to get there.

Also, you may have missed the fact that the protesters were not just in the street, they had also entered the yard associated with the lawyers' house,m and had made verbal threats.
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Old July 2, 2020, 11:57 AM   #9
ghbucky
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I'd also add that the widely spread story that the protesters were on the way to the Mayor's house was disputed by the attorney as false.

He said in an interview with Chris Cuomo that the Mayor's house is something like 3 miles away from his.

[edit] Well, I don't want this to end up in details of where who was or doing what...

I'm back to my original request: confronted with a situation where there is a mob coming into your neighborhood and has already caused property damage, what do you do?

I guess the answer to lock up the house and hope you get a police response is the safest answer.

Last edited by ghbucky; July 2, 2020 at 12:03 PM.
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Old July 2, 2020, 06:29 PM   #10
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I would suggest that pointing your guns towards or shooting at a somewhat unruly group of protesters walking past your house or through your yard even after they had presumably knocked down the gate in your little private community would have been highly inappropriate in this situation. Whew, almost lost my breathe writing that sentence!

I hope they file charges against the two ding-dongs.
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Old July 3, 2020, 12:30 PM   #11
ghbucky
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Quote:
I would suggest that pointing your guns towards or shooting at a somewhat unruly group of protesters walking past your house or through your yard even after they had presumably knocked down the gate in your little private community would have been highly inappropriate in this situation. Whew, almost lost my breathe writing that sentence!
Every 'mostly peaceful' demonstration has to have some property damage, am I right?
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Old July 3, 2020, 01:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
The street in question is a private street, and the protesters broke through a wrought iron gate to get there.
While there's no question the gate did get broken (one can find pictures of it in damaged condition), there is a video showing the protestors enter the area through the gate without breaking it. The video clearly shows them opening the gate and walking through with the gate undamaged.

Here is a link to an article that contains the video. From about 6-12 seconds into the video, the protesters can be seen walking through the gate with the gate still intact.

Just a warning, the article has some large sidebar ads that are a bit racy.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news...-of-protesters

For those who don't want to click on the link to the article, here's a link to just the video on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/lashell.eik...44188701/?t=10

It seems clear that the gate was damaged later--it wasn't broken down at the initial time of entry. I'm not claiming that makes a big legal difference, but it's just something to keep in mind when thinking about the situation.
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Old July 3, 2020, 05:33 PM   #13
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I will not try to analyze videos of the numerous recent riot events, but I believe that exploring these situations and thinking through “what-if” scenarios is valuable for each of us. As I’ve heard said regarding warfare: while the battle plan will come apart upon first contact with the enemy, the process of planning is invaluable.

I am linking two episodes from two YouTube channels that have a full library of videos that analyze different real world assault and self-defense incidents. The host does a thorough job.

Active Self Protection - your car as a force multiplier - https://youtu.be/-vS7hk8dL5g

Active Self Protection Extra - use of a two point sling & handgun handling safety {EDIT- in post 14 below the OP caught my mistake & im fixing the link here too- 7/4/20} https://youtu.be/zd2y_OMIAmM

If you like podcasts, check out “Self Defense Gun Stories”. In a weekly post they analyze 3 or 4 real world self defense incidents within the United States.

As the OP said, it is good to have a plan and know your options before you’re in a crisis situation.

Last edited by cc-hangfire; July 4, 2020 at 08:24 AM.
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Old July 3, 2020, 06:45 PM   #14
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Thanks for that!

The 2nd video you linked was to a shotgun review, I think you wanted to link here
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Old July 3, 2020, 06:57 PM   #15
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All I can contribute is that if I truly feel my life is threatened, and I can’t get away, then self preservation takes precedence. I try very hard to be vigilant, aware of my circumstances, and prudent.
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Old July 3, 2020, 07:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
It seems clear that the gate was damaged later--it wasn't broken down at the initial time of entry. I'm not claiming that makes a big legal difference, but it's just something to keep in mind when thinking about the situation.
The difference that makes is between unlawful entry/trespassing, and breaking and entering.
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Old July 4, 2020, 11:51 AM   #17
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keep a blm flag in your vehicle and fly it in the event of a mob. once you get through it, roll it up in case you need it again. fighting a mob never turnsnout well.
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Old July 4, 2020, 01:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Also, you may have missed the fact that the protesters were not just in the street, they had also entered the yard associated with the lawyers' house,m and had made verbal threats.
Yes, I got a few things wrong in my description. Thank you for the clarifications. I'll point to your recent response to another thread in T&T:

Quote:
the fact that [you think] it was a good shoot won't guarantee that there won't be a trial.
In any case there have been several viral videos of people brandishing under what appear to be questionable circumstances. This includes much better gun handling than what the MO couple demonstrated: https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/wh...side-chipotle/


The Michigan video only shows one side of the conflict, as do most of the others. This makes me wonder if adding a rail mounted camera makes sense now. It seems like current tech would make this option as viable as a laser site.
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Old July 4, 2020, 03:58 PM   #19
ghbucky
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What I took away from that Michigan video is that the woman allowed herself to be provoked.

It seemed like they were in a retail setting, so I would think a better course would be to retreat from the women into a store or wherever and call 911.

As for a rail mounted camera, I think if your gun is in play and recording, you've already missed what caused the confrontation.
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Old July 5, 2020, 10:38 AM   #20
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Avoidance is ALWAYS the best answer. However, if a mob of any kind comes walking down the 300 yards of "drive way" to get to my house and they are screaming threats, obscenities and slurs and some of them are brandishing weapons of any sort, they will be met by a fully armed me and asked to leave immediately. No threats or warning shots, just a calm plea and clear communication that they are felony trespassing. I will have already called the sheriff's office and reported the incident, but living in a rural area, I don't expect an arrival anytime soon.

This scenario is so unlikely in my case that it's almost not worth consideration, but while I pray to the Lord I never have to ever use my weapons against another human being, I am not going to be a victim to a bunch of rioting thugs posing as "peaceful protesters".
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Old July 5, 2020, 05:53 PM   #21
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(in Provo, UT a driver was even shot trying to get through a crowd)

Don't ever attempt to drive through a crowd. If one encounters a crowd in the street while driving, make u turn and quickly depart.
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Old July 6, 2020, 08:56 PM   #22
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Sadly, no charges yet on the "upper crust folks" in that particular community/scenario.

Stand out in your yard in a community in Detroit, San Diego, New York, or even rural where ever communities and see how long you can stand about and point your firearm at people.

Especially if they are only being noisy and maybe even walking across your no-sidewalk neighborhood yard and who aren't in the act of attacking you other than in your imagination and see how long you can keep yourself out of a jail cell.

Quote:
Don't ever attempt to drive through a crowd. If one encounters a crowd in the street while driving, make u turn and quickly depart.
Yes, fairly safe to say no. No mowing down people with your car.
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Old July 6, 2020, 10:25 PM   #23
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Who among us in the 2nd Amendment community feel we should be able to point our guns at and threaten to kill people walking on our lawn? Just asking.

And forgive me but folks call ANTIFA terrorists for far less less.
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Old July 7, 2020, 09:18 AM   #24
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where does the stand your ground law come into all this?
uninvited mob in my yard.
its my ground. can I stand (my) ground?
I know every state has certain brandishing laws.
it all needs to be known.
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Old July 7, 2020, 10:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinthe60s
where does the stand your ground law come into all this?
uninvited mob in my yard.
its my ground. can I stand (my) ground?
That depends on exactly how your state's stand your ground law is worded -- if your state has one.

Quote:
I know every state has certain brandishing laws.
Not every state has brandishing laws.
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