stupid question about mailing a pump shotgun through USPS

[ezmiraldo]

Hey folks!

I will be mailing my pump mossberg from NM to my new address in Buffalo, NY via USPS. Do you know if I should notify the post office that I'm mailing a shotgun, or should I just bring a sealed box and mail it like any other package?

Also, should I be concerned about the federal laws forbidding all firearms inside a post office?

Your advice is much appreciated, since I've never had to mail a shotgun before. Thank you!

[NoSecondBest]

You need to tell them what's in the box. If you don't and they find out, you're in trouble. Ship it UPS to yourself. It's perfectly legal and they don't give you a boat load of crap when you do it. Just don't try to use a UPS store. They really don't have much to do with UPS, they're privately owned franchise and don't ship guns. Buffalo, NY? New York's becoming one of the worst states for gun ownership. I live near Buffalo and this end of the state is pretty much pro-gun but Albany calls the shots in this state. It's like living in two different states, the East and the West sides.

[Doyle]

There is no requirement to notify the USPS you are shipping a long gun.

This is from the BATF FAQ:
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

[ezmiraldo]

Apparently, my post office is as clueless as I'm. Clerk tried to tell me only dealers can do it, even if it's just a shotgun. He even said he called local ATF office to confirm. What a load of bull... (he's either ignorant or anti-gun). I know for a fact I can legally do it as a private person (I spoke to ATF local office myself, last week).

[FITASC]

How to ship firearms

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Federal law allows ANYONE to ship a firearm. (Your state law may differ)
What is below is what is allowed by Federal law.

What is a firearm?
Well, its both the complete firearm and the frame or receiver of a disassembled firearm. It's internet myth that a disassembled firearm magically loses its legal status when field stripped. Whoever promotes or repeats the myth that it is "just machine parts" is a complete and total idiot and should never be consulted about firearms again....because that is contrary to Federal law. (not to mention common sense)

Who can you ship to?
All interstate shipments of firearms must be addressed to a licensed firearms dealer (often called an FFL). The exceptions are:
1. when you ship to yourself at an address in another state and
2. the return of a firearm you sent to a manufacturer to be repaired.

Federal law allows you to ship a firearm to a resident of the same state (intrastate) as long as you have no reason to believe that the recepient is a prohibited person.

How do I know the recepient is a licensed dealer?
There is no requirement for a nonlicensee (mere mortals) to have an actual copy of the receiving dealers FFL. You can verify that the recepient is a dealer through the ATF FFL EZcheck. (When FFL's ship we are required to have a copy of the receiving dealers license before we can ship)

Be aware that some dealers refuse to accept shipments from nonlicensees as their personal business policy. Usually this is because they are terrified that the package will arrive with an RPG inside and no information as to who shipped it. Although it is not required by law, it is common courtesy to include a copy of your drivers license (for nonlicensees) or a copy of your FFL (for dealers). Dealers are required to record the identity of the person from they received the firearm from.....and a DL or FFL makes this easy. If you refuse to comply with the request for a DL or FFL.....then don't ship the gun. As evidenced by recent threads, the dealer may refuse to accept the package or delay the transfer to the buyer until he has the documents he requested.

Newspaper is for dolts, pros use bubble wrap
When you prepare your firearm for shipment, avoid newspaper like the plague. It crushes easily, provides little protective value and if wadded tightly....weighs a ton and weight adds $$$$ to your shipping costs.

A good rule of thumb is to package the gun as if it were a prized family heirloom. Put yourself in the shoes of the buyer.....who deserves to get the gun as depicted in the auction/WTS forum, etc

I've received guns wrapped in newspaper, vinyl float tubes, foam mattresses, Saran Wrap, plastic WalMart bags, baby diapers, bath towels.....obviously the shipper does not know the physical nature of package delivery or they just flat dont care whether the gun arrives in one piece. If your shipment is damaged, both UPS and FedEx will deny claims if you do not use PROPER packing materials (and newspaper is not one of them).

Where do i get cheap packing materials?
Try a gun store. They will have loads of excellent USED packing materials: bubble wrap, packing peanuts, kraft paper, air pillows, etc.

As far as packaging, the only Federal law you need to be aware of is identifying the contents as a "firearm"...........DON'T! This means you cannot mark "Fragile...EXPENSIVE GUN INSIDE" on the outside of the box. It also means you don't ship that Remington 700 in the factory cardboard box that has a giant REMINGTON in big green letters on the outside. (this is secret code for STEAL ME NOW) Simply slide the factory box inside another cardboard box. UPS and FedEx will not accept boxes with paper wrappers, although the USPS will.......but don't do it. Your label can easily be torn off.

Where do I get a cardboard box big enough to ship a rifle/shotgun?
Again, try a gun store. I throw out (into my Al Gore recycle bin) cardboard boxes every day. I always have extras stored in my garage. If you are shipping a $1,000 rifle or shotgun don't go get all frugal and jam that gun in a box you handmade from fifteen free UPS boxes that you taped together with duct tape......consider spending $10-15 on a plastic Plano or Dosko hard case. Consider removing the barrel from shotguns, as a short box is more rigid than a long box and that is better.

So, where can I ship my firearm?
USPS- will accept rifles and shotguns from ANYONE. Handguns and other firearms like frames, receivers, AR lowers are not mailable unless you are a licensed dealer or manufacturer. Even holders of an 03FFL "Collector of Curios & Relics" cannot mail or recieve by mail, a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun.

There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shippping a rifle or shotgun. There are no forms to give them, you do not need to show them the FFL of the receiving dealer.

The ONLY persons REQUIRED to notify USPS that they are shipping a firearms are licensed dealers and manufacturers....and then only when shipping a handgun. If you are not a dealer and are asked to sign a Form 1508......don't do it! You would be falsifying a Federal document and the USPS clerk who asked you to do so is an idiot.

UPS- Will accept firearms from ANYONE as long as you follow their firearm shipping policies: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ch_phr=handgun
In short, You cannot ship firearms from a UPS Store, or third party retailer....you have to ship from a UPS Service Center. UPS policy says you must notify them that you are shipping a firearm. Federal law only requires notification if you are shipping interstate to a nonlicensee. Generally thats a Federal crime (You can ship a firearm to yourself in another state...but only you can ship it and only you can open it)

UPS allows rifles and shotguns to go "Ground". Handguns must go "Next Day". if you choose to ignore UPS policies expect to get nada on any insurance claim for loss, damage or theft.

FedEx-Will accept firearms from ANYONE as long as you follow their firearm shipping policies:http://www.fedex.com/us/service-guid...xpress-ground/
FedEx has changed their firearms policies three times in the last year. It appears that you can still ship from ANY FedEx Office location.

FedEx allows rifles and shotguns to go "Ground". Handguns must go "Priority Overnight". If you choose to ignore FedEx policies expect to get nada on any insurance claim for loss, damage or theft.
FedEx requires you notify them when you are shipping a firearm.

It's in a box, what do I do now?
Go to USPS.com, UPS.com and Fedex.com and compare rates!
You'll need to know the weight, box dimensions and destination zip code to get a price.

You can then:
Take it to the carrier or post office and pay at the counter OR..............better yet, pay for and print a shipping label from home. This is CHEAPER than doing it at the post office.

My recommendations:
USPS- ALWAYS go Priority Mail with Insurance for FULL VALUE and Signature Confirmation. "Parcel Post" is cheaper but takes MUCH longer to get to the destination........the longer its in transit, the more opportunity to get lost, damaged or stolen. To me it isn't worth the small difference in price.
As no notification is EVER required at USPS.....they are the option with the smallest hassle factor.

UPS/FedEx- For rifles and shotguns I use UPS or FedEx Ground.....its usually cheaper than USPS Priority Mail and they offer true "tracking". Again, get insurance for the full value and signature confirmation. NOTE:USC 478.31 (d) "No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm" What does this mean? You pay for Signature Confirmation.

Hey! UPS & FedEx want to charge me $60 to ship a handgun!
Then don't do it.
Find a local dealer who will ship it for you.......via USPS Priority Mail. Handguns that will fit in a USPS medium Flat Rate Box with $1000 worth of insurance and Signature Confirmation ships for less than $27. If the dealer tacks on a reasonable fee (I charge $10) then you pay almost half of what you would pay if you did it yourself......and the receiving dealer won't pitch a hissy fit because you forgot to enclose your drivers license.

From this earlier thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484367

[Doyle]

Clerk tried to tell me only dealers can do it

That is true for handguns. Only an FFL can use USPS to ship a handgun. Many USPS clerks don't know their own regs.

[ezmiraldo]

thanks guys! this helps!

[Snyper]

It's internet myth that a disassembled firearm magically loses its legal status when field stripped. Whoever promotes or repeats the myth that it is "just machine parts" is a complete and total idiot and should never be consulted about firearms again....because that is contrary to Federal law. (not to mention common sense)

I've never heard any such claims from anyone except for that thread

[NoSecondBest]

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulleti...l/updt_001.htm

[Dreaming100Straight]

ditto nosecondbest. See the bottom about the postmaster not giving you an opinion as to shipping and referring to you to the ATF FAQ page that no longer exists.

Check whether the law is that firearms are not permitted within a post office or loaded firearms are not permitted.

You must use mail services described in 12.a. I believe those services require you to identify the contents.

Note that this section only permits "the owner" to mail the shotgun to the owner "in care of the applicable temporary custodian". Does that mean the owner cannot mail it to the owner? I don't know. Can someone other than the owner mail it to the owner? Not according to how it reads.

Will there be another "temporary custodian" in the other state? How about your wife or a buddy in that state,even if they are moving there at the same time as yourself?

[Dreaming100Straight]

ditto nosecondbest. See the bottom about the postmaster not giving you an opinion as to shipping and referring to you to the ATF FAQ page that no longer exists.

Check whether the law is that packaged and unloaded firearms are not permitted within a post office or if that is considered to be carrying.

[QUOTE]Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any

I believe those services require you to identify the contents.

Note that this section only permits "the owner" to mail the shotgun to the owner "in care of the applicable temporary custodian". Does that mean the owner cannot mail it to the owner? I don't know. Can someone other than the owner mail it to the owner? Not according to how it reads.

Will there be another "temporary custodian" in the other state? How about your wife or a buddy in that state,even if they are moving there at the same time as yourself?

Do not confuse rules for shipments to or by dealers and remember that yours is an interstate, meaning between states, and not an intrastate shipment.

Yes. Your local postal clerk is either a complete idiot or he got info on shipments to a dealer or manufacturer. He may not have understood you or the ATF didn't understand him. Print out a copy of that USPS page for him to show him.

[ezmiraldo]

Thank you, fellas. This was very helpful.

[FITASC]

All of that applied to Federal Laws. As we know, NY has some funky little nuances all their own, so check to make sure what you are doing is legal form a state perspective.

[oley55]

not pertinent to the OP but anecdotal.........

About 20 years ago I was staying at an Embassy Suites in College Park Georgia (ATL Intl Airport). I had a Taurus 9mm hidden in the cab and the back/topper chocked full of new fishing equipment (they have a Bass ProShops store up there). I had backed the truck up against a light pole so the rear couldn't easily be broken into. That worked until they stole the whole truck. Recovered the truck two weeks later minus everything else. Approximately 3 months later I get a call from College Park Police SGT Joe Smuckatelli and he says we recovered your Taurus pistol, do you want it back? I said sure do and he confirmed my address. A few days later I find a package in my mailbox containing the Taurus, one magazine, and 15 loaded rounds. At the time I was glad to have it back and more glad it hadn't been used to hurt someone, but I was certain if I tried mailing a pistol, something bad would have happened to me.

I still have and shoot that pistol today. Although one side of the gun looks like somebody ground it into asphalt. I'm guessing it was found by the police during the stop and was thrown to the ground and stood on until the "Hooligan" was secured.

[SARuger]

My girlfriend works for USPS. Her advice;

Break it down, package it before you walk on postal property, let them know what it is but that may not be required, get PLENTY of insurance. They do ship firearms

She thinks it needs to go to a firearms dealer but she was not 100% sure on that either. She could ask the postal inspectors Monday night when she goes back to work

[Goatwhiskers]

Read the regs! DO NOT mark anything on the outside indicating a fire arm. DO NOT inform the clerk that a firearm is in the parcel. They are required to ask if there is anything hazardous, explosive, etc. in the parcel, of course there is not. An individual CAN mail a shotgun or rifle for repairs and it CAN be returned by mail. An individual CAN mail a shotgun or rifle to himself in another state. You will find that USPS has the lowest rates, but be sure as said above to use priority and signature confirmation. GW (retired rural carrier and USPS trainer)

[BarkeyVA]

In Virginia, it is legal to sell to and ship a long gun to another resident of Virginia without going through a dealer. I've done it several times using USPS Priority Mail and UPS Ground without any issues.