Old pocket pistol?

gfann · February 19, 2017, 06:57 PM

I picked up this little pocket revolver recently, was hoping to find some info on it. From what I have see it appears to resemble a Belgian British Bull dog. I know it was made in about the same time. It has a stamped marker mark on it but nothing I can find. Is it a British bulldog or in the style of a British bulldog?

Tidewater_Kid · February 19, 2017, 09:19 PM

These are called velo dogs. Take a look at this site. Might help.

http://www.velodogs.com/

Bill DeShivs · February 19, 2017, 11:10 PM

Actually, it's a bulldog, not a Velodog.
I would think it's German or possibly Belgian.

gfann · February 20, 2017, 01:27 AM

I'm still leaning towards Bulldog. I looked up the velodogs, they are very similar. The similarities with the British bulldog are pretty spot on. the hammer spring in the velodogs look different. Good reference though. I've never heard of velodogs.

Lucas McCain · February 20, 2017, 01:38 AM

So there USA couple questions;
1. What caliber is it?
2. Is it center fire or a rimfire?

gfann · February 20, 2017, 10:32 AM

It's a 32 caliber as far as I can tell and it appears to be centerfire.

mapsjanhere · February 20, 2017, 11:17 AM

The crown over U mark on the cylinder looks like the classic German proof mark, so I'm unfamiliar with the little church-like mark above it. And there should me more marks on the frame of the gun if it's German.

Jim Watson · February 20, 2017, 11:34 AM

Agree, a German made (or at least proofed) "Baby Bulldog."

Caliber is probably .320 Revolver which is very like .32 Short Colt.

Slamfire · February 20, 2017, 11:44 AM

Quote:

The crown over U mark on the cylinder looks like the classic German proof mark

I looked at it last night and decided it did not make sense for this pistol to be proof marked at Suhl, East Germany, after 1950. You can look at those proof marks here:

www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

Need more and clearer pictures. Take the side plates off and lets see the mechanism.

gfann · February 20, 2017, 01:40 PM

From what I can see of the marks, the one clearly seems to be a U. the one directly above or to the right of it (depending how you view it) appears to be either a star in a circle or a crown topped with a cross, similar to the next mark. Possibly the same mark, punched twice. One crown mark slightly more visible then the other.

gfann · February 20, 2017, 01:53 PM

This is what the marks seem to look like. i would agree they do look like the german mark.

Scorch · February 20, 2017, 05:00 PM

Definitely not a Velo Dog revolver, although it does have the folding trigger common on those revolvers. The general type was commonly called a Bulldog, although that one is fairly small and may be a Baby Bulldog, as Jim stated.

That "crown over U" is a pre-WW2 German definitive proof. According to The Standard Dictionary Of Proof Marks (Jolex), it was used from 1891-1939 as the second or definitive proof for firearms.

So now that we know where it was proofed, and since the OP stated it is about 32 caliber, I will guess it is chambered for 320 Revolver, a very common cartridge up until WW2.

gfann · February 20, 2017, 06:51 PM

Here are some more pics if that helps any. Sounds like it is a german made for sure.

gfann · February 20, 2017, 06:56 PM

more...

Tidewater_Kid · February 20, 2017, 11:00 PM

The images in this auction are why I said Velo Dog. It is interesting the similarities between the two. This one is listed as Belgain. I guess it is just misidentified.

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/12414195

TK

Jim Watson · February 20, 2017, 11:14 PM

Only small revolvers in .22.Velo-Dog caliber are properly known as Velo Dogs.

The 1911 ALFA catalog shows similar guns of other calibers simply as rimfire revolvers and centerfire revolvers.

Lucas McCain · February 20, 2017, 11:52 PM

After looking at those pictures, "saturday night special" came to my mind. Not exactly a bunch of quality machine work there. Very interesting though, Just my 2 cents

gfann · February 21, 2017, 02:44 AM

Yes it is rough. It's been a round for awhile for sure. I noticed some of the similar revolvers have screws were as this has pins. Would that indicate it's age any?

darkgael · February 21, 2017, 02:06 PM

I have one that is very similar. It is chambered for the .32 Colt. I made up some
Cartridges for it using some brass that I had on hand and a few swaged 00 buckshot.

mapsjanhere · February 21, 2017, 04:44 PM

Please ignore that stupid NRA page on proof marks - yes, those stamps were still used in East Germany, but they originate in Imperial Germany from the 1890s. They were replaced by a Nazi version in 1939, and West Germany came up with their own new version after the war while Suhl went back to the old marks.

February 19, 2017, 11:10 PM	#3
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,980	Actually, it's a bulldog, not a Velodog. I would think it's German or possibly Belgian. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 20, 2017, 01:27 AM	#4
gfann Junior Member Join Date: February 18, 2017 Posts: 8	I'm still leaning towards Bulldog. I looked up the velodogs, they are very similar. The similarities with the British bulldog are pretty spot on. the hammer spring in the velodogs look different. Good reference though. I've never heard of velodogs. Last edited by gfann; February 20, 2017 at 10:33 AM.

February 20, 2017, 01:38 AM	#5
Lucas McCain Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2013 Location: Callaway, MN Posts: 361	So there USA couple questions; 1. What caliber is it? 2. Is it center fire or a rimfire? __________________ If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it

February 20, 2017, 11:17 AM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The crown over U mark on the cylinder looks like the classic German proof mark, so I'm unfamiliar with the little church-like mark above it. And there should me more marks on the frame of the gun if it's German. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 20, 2017, 05:00 PM	#12
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Definitely not a Velo Dog revolver, although it does have the folding trigger common on those revolvers. The general type was commonly called a Bulldog, although that one is fairly small and may be a Baby Bulldog, as Jim stated. That "crown over U" is a pre-WW2 German definitive proof. According to The Standard Dictionary Of Proof Marks (Jolex), it was used from 1891-1939 as the second or definitive proof for firearms. So now that we know where it was proofed, and since the OP stated it is about 32 caliber, I will guess it is chambered for 320 Revolver, a very common cartridge up until WW2. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 19, 2017, 09:19 PM	#2
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	These are called velo dogs. Take a look at this site. Might help. http://www.velodogs.com/

February 20, 2017, 10:32 AM	#6
gfann Junior Member Join Date: February 18, 2017 Posts: 8	It's a 32 caliber as far as I can tell and it appears to be centerfire.

February 20, 2017, 11:34 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Agree, a German made (or at least proofed) "Baby Bulldog." Caliber is probably .320 Revolver which is very like .32 Short Colt.

February 20, 2017, 01:40 PM	#10
gfann Junior Member Join Date: February 18, 2017 Posts: 8	From what I can see of the marks, the one clearly seems to be a U. the one directly above or to the right of it (depending how you view it) appears to be either a star in a circle or a crown topped with a cross, similar to the next mark. Possibly the same mark, punched twice. One crown mark slightly more visible then the other.

February 20, 2017, 11:14 PM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Only small revolvers in .22.Velo-Dog caliber are properly known as Velo Dogs. The 1911 ALFA catalog shows similar guns of other calibers simply as rimfire revolvers and centerfire revolvers.

February 20, 2017, 11:52 PM	#17
Lucas McCain Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2013 Location: Callaway, MN Posts: 361	After looking at those pictures, "saturday night special" came to my mind. Not exactly a bunch of quality machine work there. Very interesting though, Just my 2 cents __________________ If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it

February 21, 2017, 02:44 AM	#18
gfann Junior Member Join Date: February 18, 2017 Posts: 8	Yes it is rough. It's been a round for awhile for sure. I noticed some of the similar revolvers have screws were as this has pins. Would that indicate it's age any?

February 21, 2017, 02:06 PM	#19
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Baby Bulldog I have one that is very similar. It is chambered for the .32 Colt. I made up some Cartridges for it using some brass that I had on hand and a few swaged 00 buckshot. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

February 21, 2017, 04:44 PM	#20
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Please ignore that stupid NRA page on proof marks - yes, those stamps were still used in East Germany, but they originate in Imperial Germany from the 1890s. They were replaced by a Nazi version in 1939, and West Germany came up with their own new version after the war while Suhl went back to the old marks. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

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