Thought on this AR as my first - Page 2

**44 AMP** · June 20, 2017, 11:46 AM

If you are worried about spooking game with the non-natural sound of chambering a round, you should also be worried about the "zweep, zweep" sound of nylon or any synthetic clothing, and the unnatural sound of a bumping that plastic stock on anything.

ed308 · June 20, 2017, 11:59 AM

I worry about that too.

I've used the FA in the field when hunting. Round didn't go bang so I needed to eject the bad round then load the next round, while being quiet as possible. The hog never heard the noise and made some good dog food! Dropping a bolt into battery is pretty loud, so I like the FA. I've also hit the FA when the round didn't go bang to me sure it was in battery.

The military added the FA to the AR for a reason. Some times it works, some times it doesn't. But that's good enough for me. I the have FA on every AR I own, except my side chargers. The bolt on the side charger allows you to do the same as the FA.

stagpanther · June 20, 2017, 01:08 PM

I've tried the "stealth FA" approach and the only thing that went bang was my mouth with curses. lol

**44 AMP** · June 20, 2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:

The military added the FA to the AR for a reason.

yes, because they had buggered up about everything else, and had nothing to loose by adding it, and SOMETIMES it actually worked.

Designers, and engineers are rarely field users. What looks fine on paper, and in the testing grounds can prove to be less than fine in actual field use.

There is a difference between a charging handle and an operating rod handle. I have always felt it was a mistake to use a charging handle because it only works one way.

If needs must, you can kick an M1, M14, and similar rifles open or shut!! Not so with an AR or an HK.

Another point is that if the rifle failed to fire (hammer fell, no bang) what does forcing it closed with the forward assist (assuming you can) get you? Nothing, except possibly a rifle you now cannot open with the charging handle alone.

Its not well known, and almost never used, but it IS possible to recock an M1A/M14 or a Garand without opening the action.

Am not trying to say the AR system doesn't work, only that, in my opinion, several things could have been done differently, and would have been better.

Eazyeach · June 20, 2017, 03:02 PM

Thread officially derailed.

ed308 · June 20, 2017, 03:23 PM

Thread officially derailed.

No surprise. The FA question always seems to garner strong opinions both pro and con.

rickyrick · June 20, 2017, 03:32 PM

A person may not have had any thoughts about the FA, new AR owners may not even know of its existence.
I think it's an appropriate discussion for a new rifle purchase, as they can be bought either way.

I thought the barrel in question would have gotten more miles in this thread than the FA.

The forward assist is the best at getting tangled up in the camouflage netting back at the FOB. The FA is a gateway tangle. By the end of it, your Kevlar is stuck in it too.

ed308 · June 20, 2017, 03:48 PM

Good point. Don't quote me, I think the biggest difference b/w 4140 and 4150 barrel steel is .1% carbon in the 4140. For the average recreational shooter, probably never matter. Now if your shooting 200-400 rounds a week, better to go with 4150 barrel steel. For a first AR, I think it's good choice. FA and all!

O4L · June 20, 2017, 03:59 PM

The only reason I have the forward assist and dust cover on my rifles is because if I have to sell one the operators think they have to have them.

osbornk · June 20, 2017, 04:36 PM

Quote:

The only reason I have the forward assist and dust cover on my rifles is because if I have to sell one the operators think they have to have them.

I have them on mine simply because they came with the gun. It's like the sign my friend's wife had in her kitchen "The only reason I have a kitchen is because it came with the house".

Fishbed77 · June 20, 2017, 05:10 PM

Quote:

If you are worried about spooking game with the non-natural sound of chambering a round, you should also be worried about the "zweep, zweep" sound of nylon or any synthetic clothing, and the unnatural sound of a bumping that plastic stock on anything.

I am.

marine6680 · June 20, 2017, 07:51 PM

Isn't basic hunting safety include not crossing obstacles with your rifle loaded, or entering blinds or stands while loaded... Things like that?

Seems once you get into position, keeping quiet it preferred.

I don't see how a properly applied use of the FA would cause a click, as it's easy to see if the bolt is in battery or not... Plus the FA does a good job seating the bolt if you give it a few good taps with your palm.

As far as the barrel, 4140 is good enough for most users, and being nitride treated means it isn't too far off of 4150.

Remember though, small changes in the ratios of the elements added to the alloy, do make a big difference in the end.

But the barrel being 4140 is another reason I suggest aero, they use 4150.

Buffer springs are cheap, and having a spare on hand is a good idea for any AR anyway.

Wish the OP would pipe in with his thoughts...

Targa · June 20, 2017, 08:08 PM

I do to. It's alway's nice to have a little participation from the person that asks the question and starts the thread.

pgb205 · June 20, 2017, 10:10 PM

thanks everyone for their responses!. I bought SW Sport II and am awaiting it impatiently :-)

Eazyeach · June 20, 2017, 10:13 PM

You'll be happy. Congrats on your new rifle. Be sure to shoot the snot out of it. Won't let you down.

Targa · June 20, 2017, 10:33 PM

Yep, congrats! It will serve you very well. Now time for a scope..

June 20, 2017, 11:46 AM	#26
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	If you are worried about spooking game with the non-natural sound of chambering a round, you should also be worried about the "zweep, zweep" sound of nylon or any synthetic clothing, and the unnatural sound of a bumping that plastic stock on anything. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 20, 2017, 01:08 PM	#28
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I've tried the "stealth FA" approach and the only thing that went bang was my mouth with curses. lol __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

June 20, 2017, 11:59 AM	#27
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I worry about that too. I've used the FA in the field when hunting. Round didn't go bang so I needed to eject the bad round then load the next round, while being quiet as possible. The hog never heard the noise and made some good dog food! Dropping a bolt into battery is pretty loud, so I like the FA. I've also hit the FA when the round didn't go bang to me sure it was in battery. The military added the FA to the AR for a reason. Some times it works, some times it doesn't. But that's good enough for me. I the have FA on every AR I own, except my side chargers. The bolt on the side charger allows you to do the same as the FA.

June 20, 2017, 03:02 PM	#30
Eazyeach Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2014 Posts: 706	Thread officially derailed.

June 20, 2017, 03:23 PM	#31
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Thread officially derailed. No surprise. The FA question always seems to garner strong opinions both pro and con.

June 20, 2017, 03:32 PM	#32
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	A person may not have had any thoughts about the FA, new AR owners may not even know of its existence. I think it's an appropriate discussion for a new rifle purchase, as they can be bought either way. I thought the barrel in question would have gotten more miles in this thread than the FA. The forward assist is the best at getting tangled up in the camouflage netting back at the FOB. The FA is a gateway tangle. By the end of it, your Kevlar is stuck in it too.

June 20, 2017, 03:48 PM	#33
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Good point. Don't quote me, I think the biggest difference b/w 4140 and 4150 barrel steel is .1% carbon in the 4140. For the average recreational shooter, probably never matter. Now if your shooting 200-400 rounds a week, better to go with 4150 barrel steel. For a first AR, I think it's good choice. FA and all!

June 20, 2017, 03:59 PM	#34
O4L Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2015 Posts: 646	The only reason I have the forward assist and dust cover on my rifles is because if I have to sell one the operators think they have to have them.

June 20, 2017, 07:51 PM	#37
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Isn't basic hunting safety include not crossing obstacles with your rifle loaded, or entering blinds or stands while loaded... Things like that? Seems once you get into position, keeping quiet it preferred. I don't see how a properly applied use of the FA would cause a click, as it's easy to see if the bolt is in battery or not... Plus the FA does a good job seating the bolt if you give it a few good taps with your palm. As far as the barrel, 4140 is good enough for most users, and being nitride treated means it isn't too far off of 4150. Remember though, small changes in the ratios of the elements added to the alloy, do make a big difference in the end. But the barrel being 4140 is another reason I suggest aero, they use 4150. Buffer springs are cheap, and having a spare on hand is a good idea for any AR anyway. Wish the OP would pipe in with his thoughts...

June 20, 2017, 08:08 PM	#38
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	I do to. It's alway's nice to have a little participation from the person that asks the question and starts the thread.

June 20, 2017, 10:10 PM	#39
pgb205 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Posts: 104	thanks everyone for their responses!. I bought SW Sport II and am awaiting it impatiently :-)

June 20, 2017, 10:13 PM	#40
Eazyeach Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2014 Posts: 706	You'll be happy. Congrats on your new rifle. Be sure to shoot the snot out of it. Won't let you down.

June 20, 2017, 10:33 PM	#41
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Yep, congrats! It will serve you very well. Now time for a scope..