Uberti walkers BP cartridge loads?

SAA GunSlinger · May 23, 2017, 11:57 AM

Hello for the longest time ive made 45 colt for my schofields in SASS shooting. I wanted to change things up a bit and have a little fun. I purchased two uberti colt walkers and I'm getting the cartridge conversion cylinders with them as well. I know I wont be winning any matches with those 10 pound anvils but I'm just doing it for fun. The question is I'm new to black powder and I still want to run black powder catridge's in them so I can still get the smoke effect. Whats a good powder to go with? and what do I load at with a 250 grn RNFP? Ive read people filling the casing all the way to the brim and then seating the bullet and saying its safe....that just doenst seem safe to me and also Ive read people filling it half way and filling the empty space with corn meal. I dont want to take any chances with this. Whats the proper way to load 45 colt rounds with Black powder. How much powder? and what type of powder? and can i use CCI 350 magnum primers or do I have to use large pistol 300 CCI primers? Id really appreciate the help guys

Centurion · May 23, 2017, 12:35 PM

Hi!
It depends on what kind of bang do you need. A mild recoil, weak shot, could be obtained with 50/50 parts of black powder (FFFG or FFG) and some meal; but if you want a full power black powder load, you can fully load the case and then seat the bullet, considering the maximum OAL your gun can handle. For sure in this second case you wouldn't load more than 35 to 40 grains of powder...
In my case I use to load a full case with large pistol WIN primers when I need the max power from my pietta bison. Obtained up to 1000 fps with Lee 200 grs SWC .452 bullet of pure lead in this 12 in. barrel gun.

Hope my experience could help you, attached a photo of one of this shots at night (where the bullet is clearly seen at the start of its trajectory).

SAA GunSlinger · May 23, 2017, 01:01 PM

Id like full charges, so your suggesting load the casings all the way and then seat the bullet and Whats the difference between FFFG and FFG powder? Awesome picture by the way

Centurion · May 23, 2017, 01:44 PM

Depending on the length of the bullet and the part of it that could be seated inside the case, you could charge it with powder up to the brim or maybe just a couple of millimeters below. In my case and using 200 grns LEE SWC mold bullets, I can load it up to the brim, but in case you use another kind of bullet you must to test if you can seat it and still get the max OAL you need for your gun.
FFFG is a little faster than FFG, so the pressure peak would be higher, obviously depending on the powder brand and batch you will use.
Anyway, if your revolver is a new and good one, there should be no problem on loading full cases of BP, always considering a normal crimp. Just be sure not to leave any airspace between the bullet and the powder charge, and should be no risks. Consider that any cap and ball revolver is normally loaded with the same quantity of BP that you will use into your cartridges (or even more). I.E. the Pietta Bison in the photo is normally loaded with no more than 40 grains of BP when I use fully loaded 45 LC cases, and with +45 gns when I use the C&B cylinder.
In the other hand, remember that specific (or natural) lubes must be used, and that the softer the lead bullet the better one. In my case I use plain cow grease to lube my almost pure lead bullets with good results.

SAA GunSlinger · May 23, 2017, 08:36 PM

All this information is helping out greatly I do appreciate it. Can you please elaborate on "greasing the bullet" thank you for all the help by the way. I'm taking notes and making a small grocery list for when I hit the gun store to pick up reloading supplies and what not

Bishop Creek · May 23, 2017, 09:41 PM

4ffffg black powder is primarily used to prime the pan of a flintlock and was used in .22 cartridges in the 1800s. I would highly recommend NOT loading a .45 case with it, it is a very fast burning powder and could turn a .45 into a potentially dangerous magnum type load. Don't do it. Use 2ffg or at the most 3fffg in a .45 case filled so that the bullet is compressed on it when loaded (no airspace).

Centurion · May 23, 2017, 10:37 PM

We never mentioned FFFFG...

SAA GunSlinger · May 23, 2017, 11:03 PM

well thank you for the help ill be sure to go for FFG or FFFG. So when you say grease the bullet, do I cover the entire thing or just the gas checks What type of grease would you recommend. Keep in mind I'm not casting my bullets and whats the purpose of greasing it?

Hawg · May 23, 2017, 11:27 PM

One thing nobody mentioned is all Uberti open top Colt's have short arbors. If you don't correct that you're going to beat the wedges up with full loads. You will need to shim the arbor until you have a rock solid fit of the arbor in the arbor hole and with the barrel lug to the frame.

deerslayer303 · May 23, 2017, 11:29 PM

Only grease BP bullets with NON petroleum based grease. I use a 1:8 mix of mutton tallow and beezwax. The Gatofeo lube mentioned in the sticky "so you want a cap and ball revolver" thread at the top of this forum would be excellent as its consistency is stiffer amd would be great for pan lubing you holy black projectiles. You say you are not casting your bullets. So you may want to see if you can buy them already lubed with BP appropriate grease. I haven't checked into this.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Hawg · May 24, 2017, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Only grease BP bullets with NON petroleum based grease.

THIS!!!

SAA GunSlinger · May 24, 2017, 10:15 AM

why do I need to grease them?

Hawg · May 24, 2017, 10:28 AM

Quote:

why do I need to grease them?

To keep fouling soft and reduce leading. You don't need gas checks with .45 Colt or magnum primers.

SAA GunSlinger · May 24, 2017, 11:23 AM

Sorry terminology backwards I mean the grease grooves in the bullet already have blue grease in them. Will that be good enough or do I need to grease the entire thing

Strafer Gott · May 24, 2017, 01:18 PM

Blue wax is probably smokeless lubricant. SPG lube will work better with BP.

Hawg · May 24, 2017, 01:36 PM

Quote:

I mean the grease grooves in the bullet already have blue grease in them. Will that be good enough or do I need to grease the entire thing

You will want to melt that out or find out what a chore cleaning can really be.

Beagle333 · May 24, 2017, 06:31 PM

Boil em vigorously and the blue will melt. Let it cool and it'll solidify on the surface. Then you can lift it off the surface and pour the bullets out from underneath. Then when they dry, relube with appropriate BP lube.

It'll be messy. This is best done outside with an old boiler and a hot plate. (remember, you're dealing with raw lead, so you shouldn't cook with said boiler ever again.) If you don't have one already, one option is to buy one from the Thrift store for a couple of bucks.

Driftwood Johnson · May 24, 2017, 08:28 PM

Howdy

A few things.

The blue lube on your bullets is for Smokeless Powder. If you use the hard blue lube with Black Powder you will probably get hard fouling caked in the bore which ruins accuracy and is difficult to remove.

Black Powder should be shot with a bullet lubed with a soft, gooey bullet lube. There are as many formulas and concoctions for BP bullet lube as there are BP shooters. I used to use a mixture of 50/50 Beeswax/Crisco.

You may want to check out this primer I have been writing over at The High Road. I go into a lot of stuff about preparing a firearm for Black Powder, and the different ways and types of bullet lubes there are.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...e-guns.821193/

It is not complete yet, I have not gotten to the part yet about actually loading the cartridges. What I am going to write is that the amount of BP I have always used in a cartridge is that amount that will be compressed by 1/16" to 1/8" when the bullet is seated. This will of course vary with how deep the bullet sits in the case. Filling the case to the brim and mashing a bullet on top is overkill in my not so humble opinion.

I will also be getting into cleanup in another installment.

Lee44ShooterCnB · May 24, 2017, 08:46 PM

And the tutorials written by Mr. Johnson are always very detailed and informative. Comprehensive and complete with photos.

May 23, 2017, 11:57 AM	#1
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	Uberti walkers BP cartridge loads? Hello for the longest time ive made 45 colt for my schofields in SASS shooting. I wanted to change things up a bit and have a little fun. I purchased two uberti colt walkers and I'm getting the cartridge conversion cylinders with them as well. I know I wont be winning any matches with those 10 pound anvils but I'm just doing it for fun. The question is I'm new to black powder and I still want to run black powder catridge's in them so I can still get the smoke effect. Whats a good powder to go with? and what do I load at with a 250 grn RNFP? Ive read people filling the casing all the way to the brim and then seating the bullet and saying its safe....that just doenst seem safe to me and also Ive read people filling it half way and filling the empty space with corn meal. I dont want to take any chances with this. Whats the proper way to load 45 colt rounds with Black powder. How much powder? and what type of powder? and can i use CCI 350 magnum primers or do I have to use large pistol 300 CCI primers? Id really appreciate the help guys

May 23, 2017, 11:29 PM	#10
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Only grease BP bullets with NON petroleum based grease. I use a 1:8 mix of mutton tallow and beezwax. The Gatofeo lube mentioned in the sticky "so you want a cap and ball revolver" thread at the top of this forum would be excellent as its consistency is stiffer amd would be great for pan lubing you holy black projectiles. You say you are not casting your bullets. So you may want to see if you can buy them already lubed with BP appropriate grease. I haven't checked into this. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Last edited by deerslayer303; May 23, 2017 at 11:40 PM.

May 24, 2017, 06:31 PM	#17
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Boil em vigorously and the blue will melt. Let it cool and it'll solidify on the surface. Then you can lift it off the surface and pour the bullets out from underneath. Then when they dry, relube with appropriate BP lube. It'll be messy. This is best done outside with an old boiler and a hot plate. (remember, you're dealing with raw lead, so you shouldn't cook with said boiler ever again.) If you don't have one already, one option is to buy one from the Thrift store for a couple of bucks. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

May 23, 2017, 01:01 PM	#3
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	Id like full charges, so your suggesting load the casings all the way and then seat the bullet and Whats the difference between FFFG and FFG powder? Awesome picture by the way

May 23, 2017, 01:44 PM	#4
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	Depending on the length of the bullet and the part of it that could be seated inside the case, you could charge it with powder up to the brim or maybe just a couple of millimeters below. In my case and using 200 grns LEE SWC mold bullets, I can load it up to the brim, but in case you use another kind of bullet you must to test if you can seat it and still get the max OAL you need for your gun. FFFG is a little faster than FFG, so the pressure peak would be higher, obviously depending on the powder brand and batch you will use. Anyway, if your revolver is a new and good one, there should be no problem on loading full cases of BP, always considering a normal crimp. Just be sure not to leave any airspace between the bullet and the powder charge, and should be no risks. Consider that any cap and ball revolver is normally loaded with the same quantity of BP that you will use into your cartridges (or even more). I.E. the Pietta Bison in the photo is normally loaded with no more than 40 grains of BP when I use fully loaded 45 LC cases, and with +45 gns when I use the C&B cylinder. In the other hand, remember that specific (or natural) lubes must be used, and that the softer the lead bullet the better one. In my case I use plain cow grease to lube my almost pure lead bullets with good results.

May 23, 2017, 08:36 PM	#5
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	All this information is helping out greatly I do appreciate it. Can you please elaborate on "greasing the bullet" thank you for all the help by the way. I'm taking notes and making a small grocery list for when I hit the gun store to pick up reloading supplies and what not

May 23, 2017, 09:41 PM	#6
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	4ffffg black powder is primarily used to prime the pan of a flintlock and was used in .22 cartridges in the 1800s. I would highly recommend NOT loading a .45 case with it, it is a very fast burning powder and could turn a .45 into a potentially dangerous magnum type load. Don't do it. Use 2ffg or at the most 3fffg in a .45 case filled so that the bullet is compressed on it when loaded (no airspace).

May 23, 2017, 10:37 PM	#7
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	We never mentioned FFFFG...

May 23, 2017, 11:03 PM	#8
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	well thank you for the help ill be sure to go for FFG or FFFG. So when you say grease the bullet, do I cover the entire thing or just the gas checks What type of grease would you recommend. Keep in mind I'm not casting my bullets and whats the purpose of greasing it?

May 23, 2017, 11:27 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	One thing nobody mentioned is all Uberti open top Colt's have short arbors. If you don't correct that you're going to beat the wedges up with full loads. You will need to shim the arbor until you have a rock solid fit of the arbor in the arbor hole and with the barrel lug to the frame.

May 24, 2017, 10:15 AM	#12
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	why do I need to grease them?

May 24, 2017, 11:23 AM	#14
SAA GunSlinger Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 139	Sorry terminology backwards I mean the grease grooves in the bullet already have blue grease in them. Will that be good enough or do I need to grease the entire thing

May 24, 2017, 01:18 PM	#15
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	Blue wax is probably smokeless lubricant. SPG lube will work better with BP.

May 24, 2017, 08:28 PM	#18
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy A few things. The blue lube on your bullets is for Smokeless Powder. If you use the hard blue lube with Black Powder you will probably get hard fouling caked in the bore which ruins accuracy and is difficult to remove. Black Powder should be shot with a bullet lubed with a soft, gooey bullet lube. There are as many formulas and concoctions for BP bullet lube as there are BP shooters. I used to use a mixture of 50/50 Beeswax/Crisco. You may want to check out this primer I have been writing over at The High Road. I go into a lot of stuff about preparing a firearm for Black Powder, and the different ways and types of bullet lubes there are. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...e-guns.821193/ It is not complete yet, I have not gotten to the part yet about actually loading the cartridges. What I am going to write is that the amount of BP I have always used in a cartridge is that amount that will be compressed by 1/16" to 1/8" when the bullet is seated. This will of course vary with how deep the bullet sits in the case. Filling the case to the brim and mashing a bullet on top is overkill in my not so humble opinion. I will also be getting into cleanup in another installment.

May 24, 2017, 08:46 PM	#19
Lee44ShooterCnB Member Join Date: May 13, 2015 Location: Ga. Posts: 68	And the tutorials written by Mr. Johnson are always very detailed and informative. Comprehensive and complete with photos.