Newbie 870 question...

Carmike · March 17, 2017, 09:26 PM

Hello all,

I inherited an oldish (early 80's version) Remington 870 Wingmaster from an uncle of mine who passed away. My father doesn't own a gun, so I didn't grow up with guns (as this question will make clear). This year, though, I'd like to try turkey hunting. I'm planning to take the gun out this weekend to actually fire it; as far as I know, it hasn't been fired in 30+ years.

My gun has a small "Full" stamped on the barrel....does that mean it's full choke? I'd also very much like to use this gun for trap/skeet, grouse, and some pheasant hunting...I've seen chokes at the local sporting goods store, but can I add them on a gun that's already full choke (if that's what the "Full" stamped on the barrel actually means)?

I apologize if these are dumb questions, so thanks for any patience you might need in responding.

Carmike

Omaha-BeenGlockin · March 17, 2017, 09:34 PM

It has a "fixed" Full choke.

Probably ok for turkeys---for other things you'll probably want to get a Rem choke barrel and choke tubes.

Blindstitch · March 17, 2017, 09:52 PM

As said probably a fixed full choke meaning the choke is the barrel taper and not an inserted piece.

It would probably be pretty good for turkeys but you are going to have to act on buying a license quick. Wisconsin is starting to sell over the counter licenses next week and other states might be selling them now or soon. Turkey applications usually need to be in around december.

The one good thing about your 870 is you can buy new barrels that are threaded for chokes for $100-125 on ebay.

Carmike · March 17, 2017, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the quick and helpful replies, guys.

I notice you both say it'd "probably" be Ok to use...Might I ask why only probably? I am taking the gun out soon to send a few rounds through it, if only because (truth be told) I've never fired a shotgun before and I want to get a sense of the pattern at various ranges, with various shot, etc. If I can improve the likelihood of a quick, humane kill, I am willing to make changes/improvements.

Just to make sure I understand, if I want to shoot pheasants or doves or trap, I'll either need to buy separate barrels with different integrated chokes, or I'll need to buy one barrel that allows different screw-in barrels?

lefteye · March 17, 2017, 11:08 PM

Your full choke barrel is fine for turkey hunting because your target is very small, i.e., the head/neck area of the turkey, in order to avoid shooting the great turkey meat. A new Remington 870 barrel with screw-in chokes should be your next purchase. You may be able to find a used barrel with screw-in chokes, but I have no idea if a full set of Remington screw-in chokes are typically sold with a used barrel that accepts the screw-in chokes.

Edited to insert the word "barrel" in the second sentence.

Blindstitch · March 17, 2017, 11:52 PM

The reason the Full would be good for turkey is because it's the tightest hole offered in that barrel and usually guys shooting turkeys will use a Full or Xtra full choke for that for he reason stated above.

For other game birds yes you are trying to hit them in the head but they are fast and something like a modified would offer a greater patter for the chance of hitting the bird.

That doesn't mean that you can't do it with a full but you might be missing because of the pattern. My rule of thumb is for every 1 yard you shoot the pattern opens up an inch. A point blank the pattern is quarter size, 10 yards basketball and 30 yards poster.

I use a double barrel for pheasants and my first choke I believe is modified and the second choke is full. Full starts getting really usefull in the 25-45 yard range. But with practice full will always get the job done. But you might miss more.

Virginian · March 18, 2017, 05:09 AM

Be advised that shooting the gun at paper will probably produce more perceived recoil than anything else you will ever do.
Your fixed Full choked barrel should be fine for turkey with the right shells out to 35 or 40 yards. Glad to hear your are actually planning to fire some shells and see, because anything else with any gun is guesswork.
If your serial number ends in 'V' it is chambered for 2-3/4" shells only; if it ends in 'M' it is designed to handle 3" Magnum shells also. Any 'new' barrel you get will be 3", and it will fit but 3" shells will likely not eject properly so you will need to stick to 2-3/4".
Full choke will also work for trap, but will prove to be a handicap for shooting Skeet or Sporting clays. If you go shopping for another barrel, be advised that the finish on an Express barrel will not match your Wingmaster, if that matters to you.
Good luck.

FITASC · March 18, 2017, 08:32 AM

A full fixed choke means your gun will enough enough choke for any intended use from clays to turkeys. That said, it might be a tad too tight for close cover grouse or a round of skeet. You can either leave it alone and shoot it as is, varying some of the loads to get different results (like spreaders), you can buy an aftermarket barrel with changeable chokes, or you can have your current threaded for interchangeable chokes by the likes of Briley, Trulock, etc.

Before I would do anything, and especially since you said it hasn't been used in quite a while, would be to do a thorough cleaning and relubing. Then I would take the ammo I intended to use to the gun club's pattern plate and see how it actually performs. Just because a barrel or choke tube is marked one thing, doesn't mean it will behave like that with a variety of ammo.

redrick · March 18, 2017, 08:55 AM

The most important thing is making sure if it has a 2 3/4 " or 3" chamber if you already know the gage . You can not shoot 3" shells in a gun made for 2 3/4 " , but you can shoot both in a 3" chamber . You should not shoot steel shot in a full choke gun .

Like others have said it should be ok for turkeys and most anything else , but not the best for turkey or close moving targets . You need to match the shell , choke and distance to what you will be shooting for the best results . The only way to determine that is by patterning the gun with a variety different shells .

The best choke for turkey's would be a turkey choke , it has a smaller diameter than a full choke . A full choke 12ga. is around .700 a turkey choke is around .660 to .665 .

Now go have some fun , get you some #4 and #5 Winchester Long Beard and pattern your shotgun at 40 yards , you want a tight pattern for turkey's . If you don't like the pattern try a different shell until you are happy with the pattern . You want to be able to put multiple shots in the head / neck area .

osbornk · March 18, 2017, 08:37 PM

You might be wise to shoot it to see what choke it is, You don't kmow it the choke has been "adjusted" with slugs or even cut off. I have a very old shotgun that has been shortened and the "mod" on the barrel means nothing.

bamaranger · March 18, 2017, 10:17 PM

Since your new, how about some clarification? "Choke" is a term used to refer to the amount of constriction at the muzzle of a shotgun, which has a direct effect on how dense/tightly the swarm of pellets fly from the muzzle......and towards your intended target. "Full" choke is considered a good choke for turkey, pass shooting ducks and geese, perhaps passing doves, large shot on predators like coyote, and trap. Full is a "long range" choke. "Modified" choke is a bit more open, and more suitable for overall use in wing shooting and small game in general. "Improved Cylinder" is an even more open, and is considered for close range on fast flushing birds like quail and grouse, maybe bunnies.

Your "fixed choke" refers to the fact that the constriction is arrived at by the manufacturing process, built in, and cannot be easily altered. Remington (and everybody else too in those days) sold extra barrels, and a sport could get different chokes, barrel lengths, with vent rib or plain, to fit his shotgun, allowing for flexibility with one gun and mutiple barrels for the game hunted. Full choke barrels tended to be longer say 30", IC barrels could go 26" or maybe less, modified in between, about 28". I have 3 barrels for my 870 from the same era. (26" full, 26" IC, and a 20" sighted slug barrel)

There are numbers and percentages that go with all this, but I'll spare it.

Sometime in about the "90's, Remington, (and everybody else) went to "screw in chokes"...choke tubes. The muzzle was threaded, and tubes threaded to match, could be swapped in/out, to allow one barrel to accomodate all the various chokes. With the advent of tubes a whole market sprang up, and there are outfits that make tubes that will fit your Rem, as well as tubes for other guns as well.

The advice re determining chamber length is apt. Many of the early guns were 2-3/4", and a 3" "Magnum" was a special order,or at least, had to be purchased with that in mind. NOwadays, most all guns are chambered for either/ ie both. Another option instead of buying a choke tube barrel, is to simply by an older fixed choke barrel for your gun. If you buy a tube barrel, you will have to buy tubes too, and gaining expense along the way. The older fixed barrels are out there and pretty common, most gun shops have a goodly number stacked in a corner somewhere, and might well sell them affordably.

Carmike · March 18, 2017, 11:34 PM

Thank you for all the responses, guys. This is such a great forum.

After I made double-sure the gun was empty, I got a bore light and looked down the barrel. As far as I could tell, there *might* be a small restriction about halfway down the barrel. It certainly isn't large, but I have no idea what I'm looking for. I appreciate the info regarding the diameter of the choke re: the diameter of the barrel. I always assumed the constriction would be greater.

I've got a few different types of ammo, and since the weather is supposed to be nice in MN tomorrow, I'll be out at the local state forest having some fun and checking patterns.

For what it's worth, the serial number starts with a "V", and best I can tell, the gun was manufactured in 1979.

Blindstitch · March 18, 2017, 11:55 PM

The choke usually takes place at the last 3 inches of the barrel.

But there are also goofy figures in understanding choke because it isn't really measured by the hole size at the end of the barrel but that can give you a rough.

Gunmakers measure it by the measurement of the cylinder. That's the widest part of the barrel inside where the shell isn't sitting. And then the amount of restriction introduced. http://www.nssfblog.com/firstshotsne...hotgun-chokes/

But paper will answer your question. Make sure that restriction halfway down your barrel is actually the barrel and not an obstruction.

redrick · March 19, 2017, 08:26 AM

Very good explanation Blindstitch .

T. O'Heir · March 19, 2017, 12:34 PM

Sounds just like the one I have. Back then 'Wingmaster' was just a name. Wasn't a higher end shotgun in those days.
Anyway, if you want to, any barrel currently made for an 870 will fit with no fuss. Suggest you look into a 26", Remchoked, barrel. Not that there's anything wrong with the full choked one you have. A barrel with changeable chokes is just more versatile and 26" will do nicely for most hunting.
No shooting 3" Magnums out of a 2.75" receiver though. Even though a 3" barrel will go on.
"...*might* be a small restriction about halfway down the barrel..." That's not the choke. Any damage like that will be visible on the outside too.
You can't actually see the choke anyway, but it'll be just a few inches into the muzzle. You need to give the thing a really good bath(That doesn't mean disassemble entirely) anyway, so whatever you're seeing will hopefully come out.
"...made double-sure the gun was empty..." The barrel comes off with no tools. Manual is here. http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm

jaguarxk120 · March 19, 2017, 02:00 PM

If the 870 go's back to the 80's, the choke is probably cut/sized for lead shot.

That is it is smaller in diameter than what is used for steel shot. So I would not chance using any shells loaded with steel shot.

Carmike · March 23, 2017, 11:08 PM

Thank you very much for all the info. I brought it with last weekend to the local state forest for a little practice, and....I forgot ammo. Just not used to grabbing shells. I'll still get it out before hunting, though, and my project for this weekend is to learn how to clean it.

Thanks again for all the info and tips.

March 17, 2017, 09:26 PM	#1
Carmike Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2016 Posts: 106	Newbie 870 question... Hello all, I inherited an oldish (early 80's version) Remington 870 Wingmaster from an uncle of mine who passed away. My father doesn't own a gun, so I didn't grow up with guns (as this question will make clear). This year, though, I'd like to try turkey hunting. I'm planning to take the gun out this weekend to actually fire it; as far as I know, it hasn't been fired in 30+ years. My gun has a small "Full" stamped on the barrel....does that mean it's full choke? I'd also very much like to use this gun for trap/skeet, grouse, and some pheasant hunting...I've seen chokes at the local sporting goods store, but can I add them on a gun that's already full choke (if that's what the "Full" stamped on the barrel actually means)? I apologize if these are dumb questions, so thanks for any patience you might need in responding. Carmike

March 17, 2017, 09:34 PM	#2
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	It has a "fixed" Full choke. Probably ok for turkeys---for other things you'll probably want to get a Rem choke barrel and choke tubes. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

March 18, 2017, 05:09 AM	#7
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Be advised that shooting the gun at paper will probably produce more perceived recoil than anything else you will ever do. Your fixed Full choked barrel should be fine for turkey with the right shells out to 35 or 40 yards. Glad to hear your are actually planning to fire some shells and see, because anything else with any gun is guesswork. If your serial number ends in 'V' it is chambered for 2-3/4" shells only; if it ends in 'M' it is designed to handle 3" Magnum shells also. Any 'new' barrel you get will be 3", and it will fit but 3" shells will likely not eject properly so you will need to stick to 2-3/4". Full choke will also work for trap, but will prove to be a handicap for shooting Skeet or Sporting clays. If you go shopping for another barrel, be advised that the finish on an Express barrel will not match your Wingmaster, if that matters to you. Good luck. __________________ What could have happened... did.

March 18, 2017, 08:32 AM	#8
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	A full fixed choke means your gun will enough enough choke for any intended use from clays to turkeys. That said, it might be a tad too tight for close cover grouse or a round of skeet. You can either leave it alone and shoot it as is, varying some of the loads to get different results (like spreaders), you can buy an aftermarket barrel with changeable chokes, or you can have your current threaded for interchangeable chokes by the likes of Briley, Trulock, etc. Before I would do anything, and especially since you said it hasn't been used in quite a while, would be to do a thorough cleaning and relubing. Then I would take the ammo I intended to use to the gun club's pattern plate and see how it actually performs. Just because a barrel or choke tube is marked one thing, doesn't mean it will behave like that with a variety of ammo. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

March 18, 2017, 10:17 PM	#11
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,302	chokes Since your new, how about some clarification? "Choke" is a term used to refer to the amount of constriction at the muzzle of a shotgun, which has a direct effect on how dense/tightly the swarm of pellets fly from the muzzle......and towards your intended target. "Full" choke is considered a good choke for turkey, pass shooting ducks and geese, perhaps passing doves, large shot on predators like coyote, and trap. Full is a "long range" choke. "Modified" choke is a bit more open, and more suitable for overall use in wing shooting and small game in general. "Improved Cylinder" is an even more open, and is considered for close range on fast flushing birds like quail and grouse, maybe bunnies. Your "fixed choke" refers to the fact that the constriction is arrived at by the manufacturing process, built in, and cannot be easily altered. Remington (and everybody else too in those days) sold extra barrels, and a sport could get different chokes, barrel lengths, with vent rib or plain, to fit his shotgun, allowing for flexibility with one gun and mutiple barrels for the game hunted. Full choke barrels tended to be longer say 30", IC barrels could go 26" or maybe less, modified in between, about 28". I have 3 barrels for my 870 from the same era. (26" full, 26" IC, and a 20" sighted slug barrel) There are numbers and percentages that go with all this, but I'll spare it. Sometime in about the "90's, Remington, (and everybody else) went to "screw in chokes"...choke tubes. The muzzle was threaded, and tubes threaded to match, could be swapped in/out, to allow one barrel to accomodate all the various chokes. With the advent of tubes a whole market sprang up, and there are outfits that make tubes that will fit your Rem, as well as tubes for other guns as well. The advice re determining chamber length is apt. Many of the early guns were 2-3/4", and a 3" "Magnum" was a special order,or at least, had to be purchased with that in mind. NOwadays, most all guns are chambered for either/ ie both. Another option instead of buying a choke tube barrel, is to simply by an older fixed choke barrel for your gun. If you buy a tube barrel, you will have to buy tubes too, and gaining expense along the way. The older fixed barrels are out there and pretty common, most gun shops have a goodly number stacked in a corner somewhere, and might well sell them affordably.

March 17, 2017, 09:52 PM	#3
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	As said probably a fixed full choke meaning the choke is the barrel taper and not an inserted piece. It would probably be pretty good for turkeys but you are going to have to act on buying a license quick. Wisconsin is starting to sell over the counter licenses next week and other states might be selling them now or soon. Turkey applications usually need to be in around december. The one good thing about your 870 is you can buy new barrels that are threaded for chokes for $100-125 on ebay.

March 17, 2017, 10:12 PM	#4
Carmike Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2016 Posts: 106	Thanks for the quick and helpful replies, guys. I notice you both say it'd "probably" be Ok to use...Might I ask why only probably? I am taking the gun out soon to send a few rounds through it, if only because (truth be told) I've never fired a shotgun before and I want to get a sense of the pattern at various ranges, with various shot, etc. If I can improve the likelihood of a quick, humane kill, I am willing to make changes/improvements. Just to make sure I understand, if I want to shoot pheasants or doves or trap, I'll either need to buy separate barrels with different integrated chokes, or I'll need to buy one barrel that allows different screw-in barrels?

March 17, 2017, 11:08 PM	#5
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	Your full choke barrel is fine for turkey hunting because your target is very small, i.e., the head/neck area of the turkey, in order to avoid shooting the great turkey meat. A new Remington 870 barrel with screw-in chokes should be your next purchase. You may be able to find a used barrel with screw-in chokes, but I have no idea if a full set of Remington screw-in chokes are typically sold with a used barrel that accepts the screw-in chokes. Edited to insert the word "barrel" in the second sentence. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member Last edited by lefteye; March 17, 2017 at 11:30 PM.

March 17, 2017, 11:52 PM	#6
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	The reason the Full would be good for turkey is because it's the tightest hole offered in that barrel and usually guys shooting turkeys will use a Full or Xtra full choke for that for he reason stated above. For other game birds yes you are trying to hit them in the head but they are fast and something like a modified would offer a greater patter for the chance of hitting the bird. That doesn't mean that you can't do it with a full but you might be missing because of the pattern. My rule of thumb is for every 1 yard you shoot the pattern opens up an inch. A point blank the pattern is quarter size, 10 yards basketball and 30 yards poster. I use a double barrel for pheasants and my first choke I believe is modified and the second choke is full. Full starts getting really usefull in the 25-45 yard range. But with practice full will always get the job done. But you might miss more.

March 18, 2017, 08:55 AM	#9
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	The most important thing is making sure if it has a 2 3/4 " or 3" chamber if you already know the gage . You can not shoot 3" shells in a gun made for 2 3/4 " , but you can shoot both in a 3" chamber . You should not shoot steel shot in a full choke gun . Like others have said it should be ok for turkeys and most anything else , but not the best for turkey or close moving targets . You need to match the shell , choke and distance to what you will be shooting for the best results . The only way to determine that is by patterning the gun with a variety different shells . The best choke for turkey's would be a turkey choke , it has a smaller diameter than a full choke . A full choke 12ga. is around .700 a turkey choke is around .660 to .665 . Now go have some fun , get you some #4 and #5 Winchester Long Beard and pattern your shotgun at 40 yards , you want a tight pattern for turkey's . If you don't like the pattern try a different shell until you are happy with the pattern . You want to be able to put multiple shots in the head / neck area .

March 18, 2017, 08:37 PM	#10
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	You might be wise to shoot it to see what choke it is, You don't kmow it the choke has been "adjusted" with slugs or even cut off. I have a very old shotgun that has been shortened and the "mod" on the barrel means nothing.

March 18, 2017, 11:34 PM	#12
Carmike Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2016 Posts: 106	Thank you for all the responses, guys. This is such a great forum. After I made double-sure the gun was empty, I got a bore light and looked down the barrel. As far as I could tell, there might be a small restriction about halfway down the barrel. It certainly isn't large, but I have no idea what I'm looking for. I appreciate the info regarding the diameter of the choke re: the diameter of the barrel. I always assumed the constriction would be greater. I've got a few different types of ammo, and since the weather is supposed to be nice in MN tomorrow, I'll be out at the local state forest having some fun and checking patterns. For what it's worth, the serial number starts with a "V", and best I can tell, the gun was manufactured in 1979.

March 18, 2017, 11:55 PM	#13
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	The choke usually takes place at the last 3 inches of the barrel. But there are also goofy figures in understanding choke because it isn't really measured by the hole size at the end of the barrel but that can give you a rough. Gunmakers measure it by the measurement of the cylinder. That's the widest part of the barrel inside where the shell isn't sitting. And then the amount of restriction introduced. http://www.nssfblog.com/firstshotsne...hotgun-chokes/ But paper will answer your question. Make sure that restriction halfway down your barrel is actually the barrel and not an obstruction.

March 19, 2017, 08:26 AM	#14
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	Very good explanation Blindstitch .

March 19, 2017, 12:34 PM	#15
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Sounds just like the one I have. Back then 'Wingmaster' was just a name. Wasn't a higher end shotgun in those days. Anyway, if you want to, any barrel currently made for an 870 will fit with no fuss. Suggest you look into a 26", Remchoked, barrel. Not that there's anything wrong with the full choked one you have. A barrel with changeable chokes is just more versatile and 26" will do nicely for most hunting. No shooting 3" Magnums out of a 2.75" receiver though. Even though a 3" barrel will go on. "...might be a small restriction about halfway down the barrel..." That's not the choke. Any damage like that will be visible on the outside too. You can't actually see the choke anyway, but it'll be just a few inches into the muzzle. You need to give the thing a really good bath(That doesn't mean disassemble entirely) anyway, so whatever you're seeing will hopefully come out. "...made double-sure the gun was empty..." The barrel comes off with no tools. Manual is here. http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 19, 2017, 02:00 PM	#16
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	If the 870 go's back to the 80's, the choke is probably cut/sized for lead shot. That is it is smaller in diameter than what is used for steel shot. So I would not chance using any shells loaded with steel shot.

March 23, 2017, 11:08 PM	#17
Carmike Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2016 Posts: 106	Thank you very much for all the info. I brought it with last weekend to the local state forest for a little practice, and....I forgot ammo. Just not used to grabbing shells. I'll still get it out before hunting, though, and my project for this weekend is to learn how to clean it. Thanks again for all the info and tips.