subsonic moose bullets ?

[Visaman]

The energy requirements:

a. bullets with a weight (138,9 grain) to(154 grain) 2700 joule (275 kgm) @100 meters distance, E100.

b. Bullets with a minimum weight of 154 grains 2200 joule (225 kgm) @100 meters E100.

Now, are there any cartridges that is usable ?

The muzzle velocity must be 853.0 ft/sek, and the bullets needs to have really low drag.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

maybe 45-70 single shot or bolt action loaded with these bullets...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=544442

or any number of the 40-65 45-70 type cartridges loaded with the spitzer style bullets used for long range shooting ???

[Jim Watson]

a. is not physically possible. A 154 grain bullet at 853 ft/sec is a .38 Special load with 248 ft lbs = 337 joules energy.

b. requires a bullet of 1000 grains to give 2200 joules at 853 fps. And that is muzzle energy without considering downrange performance.

[Visaman]

1000 grains is 64.7 Grams, that bullet must be quite large!

The only cartridge that i am aware of that uses that heavy bullets is
.700 Nitro Express, bullet diameter 700 in (17.8 mm)!

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=115376
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.340 Not that impressing..

That bullet will need a MW of 280.0 m/sec

It generates 2304.9 Joules @100 meters distance.

[jmorris]

There are only two ways to get your energy mass or speed.

[BombthePeasants]

"SUBSONIC MOOSE BULLETS"

That is a perfect band name.

[farmerboy]

Why do they have to be that? I've seen people on TV kill them with a variety of rifles and ammo and it worked. If you're anywher close to me in Texas, call me I'll let you use my 30-06 with a 165 grain. I'm sure it'll work fine.

[csmsss]

It would be interesting to know why a subsonic bullet is of such importance. Given the parameters imposed, you would be better off with a compound bow and arrows than a firearm with such anemic performance.

And - if it's noise suppression you're after, "subsonic" does not necessarily equate to "silent".

[SL1]

then any good .30-'06 load ought to do the job. Why get so "scientific" anyway?

SL1

[MO. Shootin]

From what I understand people that pay the tax and use silencers like subsonic bullets. Visaman could be a paid contract shooter to take out moose in problem areas like I don't know around air ports and such.

Just a guess. I could be full of poop for all I know.

[Jim243]

MO., he doesn't need to pay the tax or register, He's not in the US.

I'm not sure what the regulations are in Norway on Sound Suppressors.

But I don't think it can be done (Not at sub-sonic speeds).

2700 joule (275 kgm) @100 meters distance, E100.

Maybe it can, but I would need info in feet per second, foot lbs and yards, I'm not even sure what a joule is, and what is E100 (100 Euros? That would be expensive.)

Jim

[MO. Shootin]

Yeah I noticed that and almost edited it but just figured I would let it be.
The supressor is the only reason I can think of to want a subsonic bullet.
Yeah I don't know anything about if it is possible just bored and thought I would post my thought.

[Jim243]

Visaman

The only thing I could suggest for a 2,000 lb moose would be a Hornady 225 grain 338 Lapua Mag #33209 IB our books show it could be loaded down to 2500 fps (not exactly sub-sonic) (SD of 0.281 and BC: 0.430) other wise you will need to look for a 8 mm or 9 mm on your side of the Atlantic, but I still think you will need a heavier bullet than a 154 grain.

Jim

[Rifleman1776]

Why? Are you wanting to poach?
What you are asking for is, IMHO, inherently inadequate and inhumane.

[PA-Joe]

I found this 2009 post but no answer.

Big Game Hunting:

1) for bullets with a weight between 138.9 grains and 154 grains the
minimum legal energy is 2700 joules ( 1991.4 foot pounds per feet) at
100 meters E100

2) with bullets weighting minimum 154 grains, the minimum legal energy
is 2200 joules ( 1622.6 foot pounds per feet) at 100 meters. E100


Is it possible to meet these energy demands with any of the cartridges listed ?


The blackpowder cartridges:

.40-90
.40-100
.44-77 Sharps
.44-77 Remington
.44-90
.44-100
.44-105 Sharps (Necked)
.44-90 Remington
.45-82
.45-90
.45-100
.45-110 .
.45-120
.50-100
.50-110
.50-140 Sharps
.450 Black Powder Express
.461 (.450) Gibbs
.500 BPE ( 440 grains bullet ,580 m/s)
.577 Express

[Jim Watson]

Without figuring the downrange velocity, I would guess that some of them will qualify. But they are not subsonic.

[Scorch]

subsonic moose bullets

Subsonic moose are the only kind of moose I am aware of.

bullets with a weight (138,9 grain) to(154 grain) 2700 joule (275 kgm) @100 meters distance

139 gr and 154 gr are typical 7mm projectile weights. I will assume you want to use a 7mm rifle.

Achieving 2700 Joules (1991 ft-lbs) at 100 m would require a muzzle velocity of slightly over 2600 ft/sec (793 m/sec). A 7X57 can do it. However, when you say you want the round to be subsonic (<1050 ft/sec) AND use a bullet weight of 139 to 154 gr, it cannot be done. You will either have to use a significantly heavier bullet OR a significantly higher velocity.

[troy_mclure]

The only thing I could suggest for a 2,000 lb moose would be a Hornady 225 grain 338 Lapua Mag #33209 IB our books show it could be loaded down to 2500 fps (not exactly sub-sonic) (SD of 0.281 and BC: 0.430) other wise you will need to look for a 8 mm or 9 mm on your side of the Atlantic, but I still think you will need a heavier bullet than a 154 grain.

my dad has killed 2 moose with his 7mm mag, using a 160gr bullet.

[flashhole]

A little known fact - in Norway moose are common garden pests like gophers here in the states. Neighborhood etiquette is to use subsonic loads to remedy the problem. On a good day you can drop 20 or 30 of them.

[farmerboy]

For all "OUR" posts and help then, do you think the OP would be be so kind and send each of us some "moose meat"?

[Jim243]

Troy was your dad trying to down load his 7mm mag to subsonic?(LOL) The lighter the bullet the faster the speed. A slow moving light bullet is not recommended for a tough skined animal. How was the moose stakes by the way?

I couldn't afford the tags for one in Montana and we don't have a permit for one here in Illinois (not that I am awhere of).

Jim

[flashhole]

The idea behind a subsonic rifle load is to use a large heavy bullet with a small case (ergo the 30-221 or 300 Whisper) and keep the bullet velocity under 1100 fps. 220 grain bullets are real popular in the 300 Whisper.

[SSA]

510 Whisper.
750 grain Hornady Amax at 1025 fps MV should do it.

[troy_mclure]

Troy was your dad trying to down load his 7mm mag to subsonic?(LOL) The lighter the bullet the faster the speed. A slow moving light bullet is not recommended for a tough skined animal. How was the moose stakes by the way?

he went to canada to get his. and moose is tasty.

[Doodlebugger45]

Moose are not so tough to kill. Mainly because you can usually get very close to them and choose your target area. I have shot them with both a 7 mm mag and a 45-70 but in reality my 30-30 would have been fine. My buddy has taken a couple with 270 Win using 130 gr bullets without a problem. I didn't see it, but my great uncle said he killed one with his old 25-20 Winchester. Course he was only 20' away and shot it behind the ear.

But then, our moose aren't 2000 lbs either. Plenty big, but not real tough to kill.

Moose meat is my all-time favorite wild game meat, so I try not to spoil any of it. If I can get to within 20 yards, I will go for a head shot just behind the ear.