My ruger 10/22 is a scope killer,,,

10 Spot Terminator · May 22, 2010, 08:09 AM

I just recently put together my 10/22 project using a new action, a Magnum Research stainless lined carbon tension barrel, and a Shooters Ridge thumbhole composit stock. I mounted a Weaver style picatiny scope mount plate and topped it off with a fine Millet Buck Gold varmit/target scope . The barrel was just getting dialed in when the crosshairs in the scope rotated appx. 1/4 turn inside the tube ... maybe 300 rounds fired when this happened. I boxed up the scope and sent it back to Bushnell who now owns Millet and proceeded to mount a spare Simmons 3x9 .22 mag scope on the gun to shoot while my scope is hopefully being repaired and take a guess what happened ,,, thats right ! Broke the damn crosshairs . I know I have read that .22 recoil is different than larger centerfire recoil as it is a double tap rear to front recoil vs. a heavier rearward only recoil but I have seen dozens of forums where guys are using rifle scopes, not .22 scopes on the Rugers with no mention of scope damage . Is a bolt buffer the answer here or what ? My dream of an ultimate plinker is turning out to be a NIGHTMARE !!!!!

dksac2 · May 22, 2010, 08:54 AM

Could just be 2 bad scopes or maybe a bad bas /ring combo, or the rifle.
First think that I would do is to remove the scope base.The ruger 10/22's have a hump in the top of the receiver from the casting
Some or worse than others.
Check the top of the receiver with a streight edge and make sure it is straight.
If not, it could have bent the base, which will bend on the scope tube when torqued down.That is why some bases are made to get around the "Ruger Hump" and have open space under the base.
I ground my own out of the base I have on ny 10-22. It's a Leupold.
Otherwise it's bad rings, bad scope or bad luck.
Heck, I know some People who use the BSA scope that is made as an air gun/rimfire combo with no problems. It's supposed to be a good scope for the money.
I would use a bolt buffer if for no other reason than to cut down on the shock and keep the metal pin that is now in the receiver from cracking the receiver. It usually takes many thousands of rounds, but I have seen the receiver cracked at the bolt stop. Never seen one cracked there when an aftermarket bolt stop has been used, I like the one made by Kidd, It has a metal pin through the middle and lasts a long time. It's about $5.00
Let us know what you find.

Best Regards, John K

geetarman · May 22, 2010, 10:23 AM

I bought an el cheapo scope at a gun show in 1970 to put on a 10-22. It was the first 40mm objective bell I had ever seen and I wanted it.

After the first box of ammo, I noticed the center of the cross hair ( it was a duplex) was looking like it was twisting. Sure enough a few more rounds and the scope broke.

I went out and bought a steel tube K4 Weaver and it is still going strong.

I have heard similar stories about 22 caliber rifles and air rifles being really hard on scopes. Not sure of the reason but a steel tube Weaver fixed the issue for me.

Geetarman

KMO · May 22, 2010, 10:31 AM

Man, you just don't hear of many .22 rifles tearing up scopes, but I guess anything is possible. There are plenty of buffer pins available for the 10/22, but most are marketed to help the shooter stay on target for follow-up shots. The principle is the same though, and the price is cheap enough. Get a Mo-Buff 2-pack on ebay for about $5 and you'll be good to go...at least eliminate the recoil as the source of the problem.

velocette · May 22, 2010, 09:41 PM

Ruger 10-22s are known to have the tops of their receivers not flat. This can and does cause a scope to bend when mounted. Take a good straight edge and lay on top of the receiver. If you can see light under the straight edge, you may have found your problem. Most commonly, the front of the receiver is high. This is caused by wear of the mold where the molten aluminum is injected. It sounds dreadful, but many a 10-22 has had to have its receiver top filed flat and then re-finished. I know, I just had to do it to my project 10-22.

Ref: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=251033

Roger

wingman · May 22, 2010, 10:20 PM

Never broke a scope on a 10/22 and some were cheap scopes,possible rings misaligned, too tight, or just bad luck with scopes, in our global economy quality control is pot luck.

philster · May 22, 2010, 11:27 PM

OH! OH! OH! ME TOO! You're NOT alone, buddy. However, I attributed my probs to the (relatively) cheap scope I bought from Wal-Mart. I couldn't believe that after all of the time, effort, ammo, and everything else that I spent getting the Ruger zeroed that I had this problem. Same thing, I had it dialed in at 75 yards, then suddenly shots started "walking" horizontally in one direction. I tried to adjust again, but just kept chasing zero with no results. And yes, the crosshairs were now rotating inside the scope.

Thinking that this must have just been a fluke or defect, I went back and Wal-Mart made it good with another scope - I picked the same one. I zeroed again, and I haven't had probs with the second scope. BUT... at some point in this process, I did get the combo mod kit for the Ruger and installed the nylon (or whatever type of plastic) bolt buffer that came with it. It's certainly quieter, stopping that slapping metal noise and also reduces the sharpness of recoil shock - which I thought should have been minimal in a .22 anyway. I didn't make the possible connection to the scope problem then, but I may have in fact installed the buffer around the time I replaced the scope. Note - the oversized receiver pull in the kit was crap and wouldn't stay on, but the extended lever clip ejector and the receiver quick release work fine.

dksac2 · May 27, 2010, 10:55 PM

I take the scope mounts and grind metal away from the inside except around the edges and right at the screw holes. I then use JB weld under the mount, screw it on and scrape away the excess that sqeezes out. Takes care of the hump problem.

John K

hoghunting · May 27, 2010, 11:41 PM

Weaver base and Burris Signature Zee rings - the rings have a polymer insert that will align the scope to the barrel, and does not stress the scope.

TX Hunter · May 31, 2010, 10:48 AM

I had a Simmons Atec fall apart of a .22, I replaced with with an Old Weaver k4 years ago, and its still on there and still good.
The new Chinese Scopes just suck!!!

dksac2 · May 31, 2010, 06:39 PM

The Simmons 22 Mag scopes are low priced and very well rated. They hold up well.
Available in 4 X and 3 to 9X.
People have very few problems with them and they cost far less than an a Leapold or other high priced scope. For the price they are clear, bright and sharp.
Check to be sure the ring alignment is perfect first.
That Ruger hump has bent more mounts which bends more scopes and ruins them than most other problems. Check ring alignment. It will cure most of the problms.
Ruger 22's are not that hard on scopes.
If you can find an old steel Weaver scope, they are bullet proof. Some are getting collectable.
Also, get a 1" Weaver scope ring lapping kit. They don't cost much and you can tell with the bar if your rings are off and if you even need to lap the rings. A light lapping never hurts.
Just make sure you get all of the lapping compound off. It works it's way into the metal.
Midwayusa sells them.

John K

MSD Mike · June 2, 2010, 09:35 AM

I have had a vintage Weaver K-4 (I love those things)on mine forever. No probelms.

Mike

publius · June 2, 2010, 10:18 AM

I'm going with bad ring alignment causing unnatural pressure to the internals.

madcratebuilder · June 3, 2010, 08:14 AM

Doesn't anyone align the rings anymore? Use some Burris Signature Zee rings, they should help with any alignment issues. The best bet is to lap the rings for perfect alignment. The Ruger hump is one reason I use two direct mount rings, then lap them, on the 10/22.

dksac2 · June 3, 2010, 10:14 AM

Very few really align rings or know how to put them on correctly. That is one of the reasons you hear people say so and so scope is not sharp or the retical broke after only 50 rounfds etc.
Most think that you just slap them on.
I just bought a new Ruger. A close inpection turned up the scallops for the rings were not cut evenly. It's been happening more lately.
I had to change the type of set up I was going to use and lap the rings.
Guys, don't take shortcuts, the scope may hold up until you get that big buck in the sights or you are about to scope out a match wining shoot, them breaks right before the big shot.
Whealer which is sold by midwayusa has the best price on scope lapping kits and a MTM rifle holder is pretty cheal. That with a good bore sighter and you will have few proplems.
The hole set up costs little more than a cheap scope and saves problems with the expensive one's.
People will spend thousands on their rifle/scope combos and one weak link makes them not better than a used Western Field rifle and old cheap-o scope, guys remember that.

Best Regards, John K

BruceM · June 3, 2010, 11:32 PM

"Very few really align rings or know how to put them on correctly. That is one of the reasons you hear people say so and so scope is not sharp or the retical broke after only 50 rounds etc."

Roger that!

Just because everything can be put together with screws & a screwdriver does not mean the final result will be correct.

It does not take a whole lot of misalignment to really warp the scope's tube and THAT really raises hell with the erector system, especially on less robust, lower pricepoint scopes. Conversely, if these same scopes are mounted correctly, they can give excellent service.

Bruce

philster · June 4, 2010, 05:11 PM

So, not being familiar with the process - how do you lap the scope rings to even them up? Is there another post here that describes the process and tools? Does the lapping kit need to be scope/mount specific? Is there some other generic adaptor or kit for mounting your scope that will prevent this prob on the 10/22? My scope mount is the see-through kind where you can still use the iron sights.

BruceM · June 5, 2010, 11:55 AM

Lapping the rings is the last thing I would do. The first thing is get obtain and USE a ring alignment tool, either one or two piece type and actually check the ring alignment. If anything, you generally find that one of the rings needs to be rotated or that one of the bases needs to be shimmed. Lapping is done to make precision, small increment final adjustments in order to assume uniform contact between the ring & scope tube for the entire width of the ring.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...ope_on_a_Rifle

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...Alignment_Rods

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...Alignment_Laps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxUPmWVoUI

Bruce

May 22, 2010, 08:09 AM	#1
10 Spot Terminator Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 348	My ruger 10/22 is a scope killer,,, I just recently put together my 10/22 project using a new action, a Magnum Research stainless lined carbon tension barrel, and a Shooters Ridge thumbhole composit stock. I mounted a Weaver style picatiny scope mount plate and topped it off with a fine Millet Buck Gold varmit/target scope . The barrel was just getting dialed in when the crosshairs in the scope rotated appx. 1/4 turn inside the tube ... maybe 300 rounds fired when this happened. I boxed up the scope and sent it back to Bushnell who now owns Millet and proceeded to mount a spare Simmons 3x9 .22 mag scope on the gun to shoot while my scope is hopefully being repaired and take a guess what happened ,,, thats right ! Broke the damn crosshairs . I know I have read that .22 recoil is different than larger centerfire recoil as it is a double tap rear to front recoil vs. a heavier rearward only recoil but I have seen dozens of forums where guys are using rifle scopes, not .22 scopes on the Rugers with no mention of scope damage . Is a bolt buffer the answer here or what ? My dream of an ultimate plinker is turning out to be a NIGHTMARE !!!!!

May 22, 2010, 08:54 AM	#2
dksac2 Member Join Date: May 17, 2010 Posts: 62	Could just be 2 bad scopes or maybe a bad bas /ring combo, or the rifle. First think that I would do is to remove the scope base.The ruger 10/22's have a hump in the top of the receiver from the casting Some or worse than others. Check the top of the receiver with a streight edge and make sure it is straight. If not, it could have bent the base, which will bend on the scope tube when torqued down.That is why some bases are made to get around the "Ruger Hump" and have open space under the base. I ground my own out of the base I have on ny 10-22. It's a Leupold. Otherwise it's bad rings, bad scope or bad luck. Heck, I know some People who use the BSA scope that is made as an air gun/rimfire combo with no problems. It's supposed to be a good scope for the money. I would use a bolt buffer if for no other reason than to cut down on the shock and keep the metal pin that is now in the receiver from cracking the receiver. It usually takes many thousands of rounds, but I have seen the receiver cracked at the bolt stop. Never seen one cracked there when an aftermarket bolt stop has been used, I like the one made by Kidd, It has a metal pin through the middle and lasts a long time. It's about $5.00 Let us know what you find. Best Regards, John K Last edited by dksac2; May 22, 2010 at 06:49 PM.

May 22, 2010, 10:31 AM	#4
KMO Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 949	Man, you just don't hear of many .22 rifles tearing up scopes, but I guess anything is possible. There are plenty of buffer pins available for the 10/22, but most are marketed to help the shooter stay on target for follow-up shots. The principle is the same though, and the price is cheap enough. Get a Mo-Buff 2-pack on ebay for about $5 and you'll be good to go...at least eliminate the recoil as the source of the problem. __________________ *"In God We Trust"*

May 22, 2010, 09:41 PM	#5
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	Ruger 10-22s are known to have the tops of their receivers not flat. This can and does cause a scope to bend when mounted. Take a good straight edge and lay on top of the receiver. If you can see light under the straight edge, you may have found your problem. Most commonly, the front of the receiver is high. This is caused by wear of the mold where the molten aluminum is injected. It sounds dreadful, but many a 10-22 has had to have its receiver top filed flat and then re-finished. I know, I just had to do it to my project 10-22. Ref: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=251033 Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master Last edited by velocette; May 23, 2010 at 08:26 AM.

May 22, 2010, 11:27 PM	#7
philster Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Posts: 47	OH! OH! OH! ME TOO! You're NOT alone, buddy. However, I attributed my probs to the (relatively) cheap scope I bought from Wal-Mart. I couldn't believe that after all of the time, effort, ammo, and everything else that I spent getting the Ruger zeroed that I had this problem. Same thing, I had it dialed in at 75 yards, then suddenly shots started "walking" horizontally in one direction. I tried to adjust again, but just kept chasing zero with no results. And yes, the crosshairs were now rotating inside the scope. Thinking that this must have just been a fluke or defect, I went back and Wal-Mart made it good with another scope - I picked the same one. I zeroed again, and I haven't had probs with the second scope. BUT... at some point in this process, I did get the combo mod kit for the Ruger and installed the nylon (or whatever type of plastic) bolt buffer that came with it. It's certainly quieter, stopping that slapping metal noise and also reduces the sharpness of recoil shock - which I thought should have been minimal in a .22 anyway. I didn't make the possible connection to the scope problem then, but I may have in fact installed the buffer around the time I replaced the scope. Note - the oversized receiver pull in the kit was crap and wouldn't stay on, but the extended lever clip ejector and the receiver quick release work fine. Last edited by philster; May 22, 2010 at 11:33 PM.

May 22, 2010, 10:23 AM	#3
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	I bought an el cheapo scope at a gun show in 1970 to put on a 10-22. It was the first 40mm objective bell I had ever seen and I wanted it. After the first box of ammo, I noticed the center of the cross hair ( it was a duplex) was looking like it was twisting. Sure enough a few more rounds and the scope broke. I went out and bought a steel tube K4 Weaver and it is still going strong. I have heard similar stories about 22 caliber rifles and air rifles being really hard on scopes. Not sure of the reason but a steel tube Weaver fixed the issue for me. Geetarman

May 22, 2010, 10:20 PM	#6
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	Never broke a scope on a 10/22 and some were cheap scopes,possible rings misaligned, too tight, or just bad luck with scopes, in our global economy quality control is pot luck.

May 27, 2010, 10:55 PM	#8
dksac2 Member Join Date: May 17, 2010 Posts: 62	I take the scope mounts and grind metal away from the inside except around the edges and right at the screw holes. I then use JB weld under the mount, screw it on and scrape away the excess that sqeezes out. Takes care of the hump problem. John K

May 27, 2010, 11:41 PM	#9
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	Weaver base and Burris Signature Zee rings - the rings have a polymer insert that will align the scope to the barrel, and does not stress the scope.

May 31, 2010, 10:48 AM	#10
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	I had a Simmons Atec fall apart of a .22, I replaced with with an Old Weaver k4 years ago, and its still on there and still good. The new Chinese Scopes just suck!!!

May 31, 2010, 06:39 PM	#11
dksac2 Member Join Date: May 17, 2010 Posts: 62	The Simmons 22 Mag scopes are low priced and very well rated. They hold up well. Available in 4 X and 3 to 9X. People have very few problems with them and they cost far less than an a Leapold or other high priced scope. For the price they are clear, bright and sharp. Check to be sure the ring alignment is perfect first. That Ruger hump has bent more mounts which bends more scopes and ruins them than most other problems. Check ring alignment. It will cure most of the problms. Ruger 22's are not that hard on scopes. If you can find an old steel Weaver scope, they are bullet proof. Some are getting collectable. Also, get a 1" Weaver scope ring lapping kit. They don't cost much and you can tell with the bar if your rings are off and if you even need to lap the rings. A light lapping never hurts. Just make sure you get all of the lapping compound off. It works it's way into the metal. Midwayusa sells them. John K Last edited by dksac2; May 31, 2010 at 06:46 PM.

June 2, 2010, 09:35 AM	#12
MSD Mike Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 212	I have had a vintage Weaver K-4 (I love those things)on mine forever. No probelms. Mike

June 2, 2010, 10:18 AM	#13
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	I'm going with bad ring alignment causing unnatural pressure to the internals. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

June 3, 2010, 08:14 AM	#14
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Doesn't anyone align the rings anymore? Use some Burris Signature Zee rings, they should help with any alignment issues. The best bet is to lap the rings for perfect alignment. The Ruger hump is one reason I use two direct mount rings, then lap them, on the 10/22.

June 3, 2010, 10:14 AM	#15
dksac2 Member Join Date: May 17, 2010 Posts: 62	Very few really align rings or know how to put them on correctly. That is one of the reasons you hear people say so and so scope is not sharp or the retical broke after only 50 rounfds etc. Most think that you just slap them on. I just bought a new Ruger. A close inpection turned up the scallops for the rings were not cut evenly. It's been happening more lately. I had to change the type of set up I was going to use and lap the rings. Guys, don't take shortcuts, the scope may hold up until you get that big buck in the sights or you are about to scope out a match wining shoot, them breaks right before the big shot. Whealer which is sold by midwayusa has the best price on scope lapping kits and a MTM rifle holder is pretty cheal. That with a good bore sighter and you will have few proplems. The hole set up costs little more than a cheap scope and saves problems with the expensive one's. People will spend thousands on their rifle/scope combos and one weak link makes them not better than a used Western Field rifle and old cheap-o scope, guys remember that. Best Regards, John K

June 3, 2010, 11:32 PM	#16
BruceM Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 285	"Very few really align rings or know how to put them on correctly. That is one of the reasons you hear people say so and so scope is not sharp or the retical broke after only 50 rounds etc." Roger that! Just because everything can be put together with screws & a screwdriver does not mean the final result will be correct. It does not take a whole lot of misalignment to really warp the scope's tube and THAT really raises hell with the erector system, especially on less robust, lower pricepoint scopes. Conversely, if these same scopes are mounted correctly, they can give excellent service. Bruce

June 4, 2010, 05:11 PM	#17
philster Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Posts: 47	So, not being familiar with the process - how do you lap the scope rings to even them up? Is there another post here that describes the process and tools? Does the lapping kit need to be scope/mount specific? Is there some other generic adaptor or kit for mounting your scope that will prevent this prob on the 10/22? My scope mount is the see-through kind where you can still use the iron sights.

June 5, 2010, 11:55 AM	#18
BruceM Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 285	Lapping the rings is the last thing I would do. The first thing is get obtain and USE a ring alignment tool, either one or two piece type and actually check the ring alignment. If anything, you generally find that one of the rings needs to be rotated or that one of the bases needs to be shimmed. Lapping is done to make precision, small increment final adjustments in order to assume uniform contact between the ring & scope tube for the entire width of the ring. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...ope_on_a_Rifle http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...Alignment_Rods http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...Alignment_Laps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxUPmWVoUI Bruce Last edited by BruceM; June 5, 2010 at 12:14 PM.