Before I use these primers...

Hueco · May 23, 2000, 04:48 PM

..need to make sure they won't cause a pressure problem. In the newest Speer (#13) reloading manual, on page 422 for the 458 Win Mag it lists a load for the 500 grain bullet with 69.0 grains of IMR 3031. It does not have an asterisk by that, so I assume it does NOT require a CCI magnum primer. SO i bought some Winchester large magnum rifle primers. I understand that they are a tad hotter than CCI's. Will the cause an over-pressure even with the minimum load? Maximum?

Hueco

**Mal H** · May 23, 2000, 06:16 PM

I do believe that is a misprint and the asterisk should be there. Look at the 3031 load for the other 500 grainer. You'll note in the general info section that they list the only primer as CCI 250. The Win magnum primers won't cause OP with the min. load and, as usual, you should work up to the maximum. I seriously doubt that you'll see any OP signs even at the max. As a rule of thumb, if the rifle caliber contains the word "magnum" you can safely use a magnum primer. But the best guide as always are the manuals.

Hueco · May 23, 2000, 08:07 PM

Right, so I *can* use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure.

Hueco

Southla1 · May 23, 2000, 08:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hueco:
Right, so I *can* use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure.[/quote]

Sure you can just be sure to start below maximum and work up as with any load you are developing.

------------------
Carlyle Hebert

Hueco · May 23, 2000, 08:55 PM

Wow, this is really interesting to me. So what about Federals? Same thing? Start at minimum and work up?

Hueco

**Mal H** · May 23, 2000, 09:42 PM

Hueco, paranoia is good in reloading, it keeps you safe. But you may be getting a little too paranoid.

Carlyle said to start below maximum and work up. You don't necessarily have to start at the very minimum once you have an idea how your gun and your choice of powder/primer/casing work together. Yes, you can interchange any magnum primer with any other magnum primer. However, when you change any component, you should reduce your current load by at least 5% and work up again.

Hueco · May 23, 2000, 09:50 PM

Right, thanks for the help fellas!

Hueco

Bill Hebert · May 24, 2000, 09:37 AM

About a year ago, I ran out of my usual CCI primers, went to the local sporting goods store and asked for small rifle primers. They were out of CCI's so the clerk handed me some Remington "5 1/2" rifle primers. I asked him if they were "small rifle primers" and he said yes they were. Nowhere on the box did the word "small" appear. I just didn't "feel" right and my reloading manual did not list Remington primers. Tried to call Remington and was banished to voice-mail hell. So I called Speer - got a real person who said they are magnum primers. Here comes the punch line, "Just start at the suggested starting load, use the magnum primers, and work the load up. It works with all magnum primers." Info direct from Speer (and we do know they know their stuff - as does Mal.) Happy loading

Hueco · May 24, 2000, 10:27 AM

I love reloading more and more all the time.

Hueco

Southla1 · May 24, 2000, 02:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hueco:
I love reloading more and more all the time.[/quote]

Hueco I agree with you! I have been reloading since 1963 and each time I seem to learn something new and it is fascinating! Being real careful dose not hurt either. In that long time reloading the only problem that I ran into was once I loaded up 100 rounds of 158 grain HP's in my .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 28) with a load that I had always used. It was ''warm'' (right up to max) but not overly ''hot''. The first round that I fired felt ''hotter'' than it should have. I should have stopped right then and there, and checked, however I fired the other 4 in the cylinder. Extraction was ok but upon looking at the primers there was no doubt that the load was way too hot. The primers were flattened more than I had ever seen, and they were flowing back into the firing pin hole. CEASE FIRE!!!!. Upon returning home and dismantling a few rounds the problem became clear. Somehow the safe ''warm'' load that I was using was not what I had loaded. I had loaded 2 grains OVER that safe load. How? I don't know. Careless or inattentive I guess. Evidently I set the scale 2 grains high, matched the powder measure to that reading and got after it! I do check measure against the scale every 10 rounds or so but if the scale is set wrong it will not catch the error. Thanks to Smith for building a strong revolver and thanks to Remington for good brass and primers.

Southla1 · May 24, 2000, 02:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hueco:
I love reloading more and more all the time.[/quote]

Hueco I agree with you! I have been reloading since 1963 and each time I seem to learn something new and it is fascinating! Being real careful dose not hurt either. In that long time reloading the only problem that I ran into was once I loaded up 100 rounds of 158 grain HP's in my .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 28) with a load that I had always used. It was ''warm'' (right up to max) but not overly ''hot''. The first round that I fired felt ''hotter'' than it should have. I should have stopped right then and there, and checked, however I fired the other 4 in the cylinder. Extraction was ok but upon looking at the primers there was no doubt that the load was way too hot. The primers were flattened more than I had ever seen, and they were flowing back into the firing pin hole. CEASE FIRE!!!!. Upon returning home and dismantling a few rounds the problem became clear. Somehow the safe ''warm'' load that I was using was not what I had loaded. I had loaded 2 grains OVER that safe load. How? I don't know. Careless or inattentive I guess. Evidently I set the scale 2 grains high, matched the powder measure to that reading and got after it! I do check measure against the scale every 10 rounds or so but if the scale is set wrong it will not catch the error. Thanks to Smith for building a strong revolver and thanks to Remington for good brass and primers.

------------------
Carlyle Hebert

Hal · May 26, 2000, 05:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hueco:
Right, so I *can* use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure.

Hueco[/quote]

To be 110% sure, I would load to 90%. Every, and I mean every change should be a new beginning. A while back, I worked up a load for the .44magnum. It was below the listed max by +10%. I switched over to a Lee factory crimp die, while keeping the same bullet, brass, powder, powder charge,, OAL,,,etc. Everything was the same. I dropped the starting point almost 1 grain of 2400 when I made the switch. I loaded 5 rounds as a test, took them to the range and fired them in the same gun (Winchester 94 Trapper). All 5 had flattened primers.(sign of excess pressure).
Ever since then I have become *very anal* about things reloading. I fire only one round out of each batch I load, then eyeball it very, very, very carefully before I fire the next round. If both look and work OK, then I fire the rest of the batch. This is when using the same components, but loading on different days and such. I'm going blind fast enough, don't need to hurry things along

Southla1 · May 26, 2000, 12:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAE:
I'm going blind fast enough, don't need to hurry things along [/quote]

How right you are RAE and I bet you kinda like all your fingers just as they are also.

May 23, 2000, 08:37 PM	#4
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hueco: *Right, so I can* use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure.**[/quote] Sure you can just be sure to start below maximum and work up as with any load you are developing. ------------------ Carlyle Hebert

May 24, 2000, 02:55 PM	#10
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hueco: I love reloading more and more all the time.[/quote] Hueco I agree with you! I have been reloading since 1963 and each time I seem to learn something new and it is fascinating! Being real careful dose not hurt either. In that long time reloading the only problem that I ran into was once I loaded up 100 rounds of 158 grain HP's in my .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 28) with a load that I had always used. It was ''warm'' (right up to max) but not overly ''hot''. The first round that I fired felt ''hotter'' than it should have. I should have stopped right then and there, and checked, however I fired the other 4 in the cylinder. Extraction was ok but upon looking at the primers there was no doubt that the load was way too hot. The primers were flattened more than I had ever seen, and they were flowing back into the firing pin hole. CEASE FIRE!!!!. Upon returning home and dismantling a few rounds the problem became clear. Somehow the safe ''warm'' load that I was using was not what I had loaded. I had loaded 2 grains OVER that safe load. How? I don't know. Careless or inattentive I guess. Evidently I set the scale 2 grains high, matched the powder measure to that reading and got after it! I do check measure against the scale every 10 rounds or so but if the scale is set wrong it will not catch the error. Thanks to Smith for building a strong revolver and thanks to Remington for good brass and primers.

May 24, 2000, 02:55 PM	#11
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hueco: I love reloading more and more all the time.[/quote] Hueco I agree with you! I have been reloading since 1963 and each time I seem to learn something new and it is fascinating! Being real careful dose not hurt either. In that long time reloading the only problem that I ran into was once I loaded up 100 rounds of 158 grain HP's in my .357 Magnum (S&W Mod 28) with a load that I had always used. It was ''warm'' (right up to max) but not overly ''hot''. The first round that I fired felt ''hotter'' than it should have. I should have stopped right then and there, and checked, however I fired the other 4 in the cylinder. Extraction was ok but upon looking at the primers there was no doubt that the load was way too hot. The primers were flattened more than I had ever seen, and they were flowing back into the firing pin hole. CEASE FIRE!!!!. Upon returning home and dismantling a few rounds the problem became clear. Somehow the safe ''warm'' load that I was using was not what I had loaded. I had loaded 2 grains OVER that safe load. How? I don't know. Careless or inattentive I guess. Evidently I set the scale 2 grains high, matched the powder measure to that reading and got after it! I do check measure against the scale every 10 rounds or so but if the scale is set wrong it will not catch the error. Thanks to Smith for building a strong revolver and thanks to Remington for good brass and primers. ------------------ Carlyle Hebert

May 26, 2000, 05:03 AM	#12
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hueco: Right, so I can use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure. Hueco[/quote] To be 110% sure, I would load to 90%. Every, and I mean every change should be a new beginning. A while back, I worked up a load for the .44magnum. It was below the listed max by +10%. I switched over to a Lee factory crimp die, while keeping the same bullet, brass, powder, powder charge,, OAL,,,etc. Everything was the same. I dropped the starting point almost 1 grain of 2400 when I made the switch. I loaded 5 rounds as a test, took them to the range and fired them in the same gun (Winchester 94 Trapper). All 5 had flattened primers.(sign of excess pressure). Ever since then I have become very anal about things reloading. I fire only one round out of each batch I load, then eyeball it very, very, very carefully before I fire the next round. If both look and work OK, then I fire the rest of the batch. This is when using the same components, but loading on different days and such. I'm going blind fast enough, don't need to hurry things along

May 23, 2000, 04:48 PM	#1
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	..need to make sure they won't cause a pressure problem. In the newest Speer (#13) reloading manual, on page 422 for the 458 Win Mag it lists a load for the 500 grain bullet with 69.0 grains of IMR 3031. It does not have an asterisk by that, so I assume it does NOT require a CCI magnum primer. SO i bought some Winchester large magnum rifle primers. I understand that they are a tad hotter than CCI's. Will the cause an over-pressure even with the minimum load? Maximum? Hueco

May 23, 2000, 06:16 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	I do believe that is a misprint and the asterisk should be there. Look at the 3031 load for the other 500 grainer. You'll note in the general info section that they list the only primer as CCI 250. The Win magnum primers won't cause OP with the min. load and, as usual, you should work up to the maximum. I seriously doubt that you'll see any OP signs even at the max. As a rule of thumb, if the rifle caliber contains the word "magnum" you can safely use a magnum primer. But the best guide as always are the manuals.

May 23, 2000, 08:07 PM	#3
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Right, so I can use the CCI or the Winchesters on that load? I just want to be 110% sure. Hueco

May 23, 2000, 08:55 PM	#5
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Wow, this is really interesting to me. So what about Federals? Same thing? Start at minimum and work up? Hueco

May 23, 2000, 09:42 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	Hueco, paranoia is good in reloading, it keeps you safe. But you may be getting a little too paranoid. Carlyle said to start below maximum and work up. You don't necessarily have to start at the very minimum once you have an idea how your gun and your choice of powder/primer/casing work together. Yes, you can interchange any magnum primer with any other magnum primer. However, when you change any component, you should reduce your current load by at least 5% and work up again.

May 23, 2000, 09:50 PM	#7
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Right, thanks for the help fellas! Hueco

May 24, 2000, 09:37 AM	#8
Bill Hebert Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Posts: 180	About a year ago, I ran out of my usual CCI primers, went to the local sporting goods store and asked for small rifle primers. They were out of CCI's so the clerk handed me some Remington "5 1/2" rifle primers. I asked him if they were "small rifle primers" and he said yes they were. Nowhere on the box did the word "small" appear. I just didn't "feel" right and my reloading manual did not list Remington primers. Tried to call Remington and was banished to voice-mail hell. So I called Speer - got a real person who said they are magnum primers. Here comes the punch line, "Just start at the suggested starting load, use the magnum primers, and work the load up. It works with all magnum primers." Info direct from Speer (and we do know they know their stuff - as does Mal.) Happy loading

May 24, 2000, 10:27 AM	#9
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	I love reloading more and more all the time. Hueco

May 26, 2000, 12:52 PM	#13
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAE: I'm going blind fast enough, don't need to hurry things along [/quote] How right you are RAE and I bet you kinda like all your fingers just as they are also.