Need help with 30 Carbine

603Country · May 21, 2014, 07:05 PM

I have a buddy that brings me whatever doesn't work - wood, metal, whatever. The latest drop-off is a WWII Winchester 30 Caliber Carbine without a rear sight. Naturally, it once had rear iron sights, but those were removed so that a scope mount could be put in place. That scope mount is now broken.

With the iron sights off the gun, there is a somewhat raised dovetail slot that's crossways to the barrel axis. The scope mount, at one time, must have had a part that fit in the dovetail and was connected to the mount by a screw, which tightened and locked the scope mount down to the rear of the rifle receiver. The part that fit in the dovetail is missing and the screw itself appears to have broken off.

So...I need a new mount or the bits to fix the old one. Surely some of you guys have seen a scope mount like this. I'll go to Google next, but think ya'll are a better bet for info.

Thanks.

5thShock · May 21, 2014, 07:28 PM

Just put the right sight back on it and tell the guy you did the world a favor.

603Country · May 21, 2014, 08:13 PM

I don't have the original sight. Don't you think I'd have put it back on if I had it? Geez. Besides, he wants to put a scope on it. I can't imagine why anyone would want a scope on a rifle that shoots a puny little pistol cartridge, but so be it.

603Country · May 21, 2014, 08:17 PM

Never mind. I found the same mount (new and unbroken) for $10 at Amazon and a couple other places. Shoulda gone there first.

amd6547 · May 21, 2014, 08:52 PM

"... I can't imagine why anyone would want a scope on a rifle that shoots a puny little pistol cartridge, but so be it..."

Oh dear...that poor Winchester carbine, in the hands of a cretin.

And I'm sure your $10 scope mount will be great. After all, the first one worked so well.

603Country · May 21, 2014, 09:47 PM

Oh, yes, I knew that line about the puny little pistol cartridge would bring some folks out of the bushes. Cretin, am I? You took the bait, hook line and sinker.

I'm just fixing this rifle for a friend. I quite honestly could not give a hoot about the rifle or the cartridge. Yes, I know it's a former military weapon, but you do know that it really is a pistol cartridge don't you? As for the $10, I'm quite sure that my friend will want to go cheap.

He said he was offered $1200 for the rifle, but wouldn't sell. I'm sure it has value to a collector, but has no value to me (unless I got it for $500 and could now sell it for $1200).

JWT · May 21, 2014, 10:44 PM

Does seem like a travesty to put a scope on a M1 Carbine.

Bill DeShivs · May 21, 2014, 11:34 PM

The .30 carbine was developed as a rifle cartridge, not a pistol cartridge.

Hence- it's a rifle cartridge.

fiream29 · May 22, 2014, 02:57 AM

I doubt if the OP really cares whether it was designed as a pistol, rifle, or dwarf bazooka cartridge. He just asked a simple question that required a simple answer.

OP, that cheap scope mount will probably work just fine. I've had one on a carbine for 20+ years with the same cheap Thompson-Center scope.

The one thing you ought to check once assembled is whether the slide can contact the bottom of the mount on the right side. If it can make contact by pulling the slide all the way back you need to look at it closely after firing. If there's a mark where the slide impacted you'll need a new recoil spring and you might still have to relieve the mount a little even then. That could be what caused the original mount to break.
Good Luck,
fiream

603Country · May 22, 2014, 07:55 AM

Finally, some useful information. Thanks fiream29.

As for whether or not it's a pistol cartridge or rifle cartridge, it was developed for that particular rifle, so you can make the case that it's a rifle cartridge. However, it is a straight walled case, and headspaces on the mouth.

kraigwy · May 22, 2014, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Just put the right sight back on it and tell the guy you did the world a favor.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

603Country · May 22, 2014, 11:02 AM

I'm doing this for free and I'm going to keep this as simple as I can. He wants a scope on it, and he doesn't have the iron sights. I just put a scope and mounts on his AR-22LR and the mount is so low that you have to screw your face into that hard plastic stock to see out of the scope. I suggested taller mounts. I know he heard me. All he wants is to shoot the rifle and not spend money (which is why he asks me to do stuff for free).

velocette · May 24, 2014, 01:08 PM

603 Country;
The naysayers heads will explode when they see this Inland .30 Carbine:

603Country · May 25, 2014, 06:25 PM

Wow! That's really something.

603Country · May 30, 2014, 05:30 PM

Just an update. Rather than buy a new mount, I decided to go with the old one and buy a fine threaded bolt of the right size and a nut that I could shape to fit the dovetail. Took me a while, but I finally got it done. Had some extra weaver type rings and an extra 4 power scope (BSA, but not too bad). Everything is on and tight and appears solid. Will shoot it tomorrow. Hoping for the best. I have to admit that the rifle looks pretty good with the scope on it. Much better looking than I would have guessed. I might even have to take it into the woods. I filled feeders and put fresh batteries in the game cameras today. Lots of small pig tracks at one of the feeders.

barnbwt · May 30, 2014, 07:40 PM

Quote:

I don't have the original sight.

Not for nothing, but you can actually get original/repro M1 Carbine sights surprisingly cheap. I recently bought a front/rear set for a scratch-build project of mine because they're a good, attractive iron sight, and it only cost me ~30$ for the pair. I'm thinking APEX, Centerfire Systems, or Sarco was my source.

Just in case your buddy ever considers going back original (not a bad idea if he goes to sell it to have both an 'original' and the telescopic sight)

TCB

gyvel · May 31, 2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

"... I can't imagine why anyone would want a scope on a rifle that shoots a puny little pistol cartridge, but so be it..."

Oh dear...that poor Winchester carbine, in the hands of a cretin.

And I'm sure your $10 scope mount will be great. After all, the first one worked so well.

The guy asked a legitimate question; Was this kind of sarcasm really needed?

Hawg · May 31, 2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:

The naysayers heads will explode when they see this Inland .30 Carbine:

I'll hack up a milsurp bolt action in a heartbeat but never messed with the semi's. I really do like that carbine tho.

publius · May 31, 2014, 08:39 PM

Yeah, that's pretty awful, velocette.

603Country · June 1, 2014, 12:05 PM

Wife went shopping, so I quit doing honey-do's and sighted in the 30 Carbine. Didn't take long. The little thing shoots great. Trigger pull sure isn't Timney-level, but that's no biggie. I put the POI dead on at 50 yards.

Too bad that tiny little rifle doesn't come in 221 Fireball or 223. Not that I need another rifle...

coldbeer · June 1, 2014, 01:24 PM

Off the top of my head I can't think of a single 30 caliber pistol round that comes within 300fps of the 30 carbine round even out of a rifle. The 30 Mauser/ tokarev certainly doesn't, not with 110 gr bullets anyway and the that round is not considered underpowered.

Chris_B · June 1, 2014, 07:01 PM

There was a time when a M1 Carbine was no really big deal. And to be honest, there was a USGI variant of the M1 carbine that used a scope mount for an infrared scope- the T3- so its not like you're punching the spirit of US History in the vegetables by the mere fact there's a scope mount on an M1 Carbine.

I have a ten dollar Redfield jr. scope mount on my 1943 Remington M1903A4gery. It's the correct mount. And I can't see why that little chunk of steel would cost more than ten bucks.

I like the .30 carbine round. I wish it were cheaper.

May 21, 2014, 07:05 PM	#1
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Need help with 30 Carbine I have a buddy that brings me whatever doesn't work - wood, metal, whatever. The latest drop-off is a WWII Winchester 30 Caliber Carbine without a rear sight. Naturally, it once had rear iron sights, but those were removed so that a scope mount could be put in place. That scope mount is now broken. With the iron sights off the gun, there is a somewhat raised dovetail slot that's crossways to the barrel axis. The scope mount, at one time, must have had a part that fit in the dovetail and was connected to the mount by a screw, which tightened and locked the scope mount down to the rear of the rifle receiver. The part that fit in the dovetail is missing and the screw itself appears to have broken off. So...I need a new mount or the bits to fix the old one. Surely some of you guys have seen a scope mount like this. I'll go to Google next, but think ya'll are a better bet for info. Thanks.

May 21, 2014, 08:52 PM	#5
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	"... I can't imagine why anyone would want a scope on a rifle that shoots a puny little pistol cartridge, but so be it..." Oh dear...that poor Winchester carbine, in the hands of a cretin. And I'm sure your $10 scope mount will be great. After all, the first one worked so well. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

May 21, 2014, 11:34 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	The .30 carbine was developed as a rifle cartridge, not a pistol cartridge. Hence- it's a rifle cartridge. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

May 24, 2014, 01:08 PM	#13
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	603 Country; The naysayers heads will explode when they see this Inland .30 Carbine: __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

May 31, 2014, 08:39 PM	#19
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	Yeah, that's pretty awful, velocette. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

May 21, 2014, 07:28 PM	#2
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	Just put the right sight back on it and tell the guy you did the world a favor.

May 21, 2014, 08:13 PM	#3
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I don't have the original sight. Don't you think I'd have put it back on if I had it? Geez. Besides, he wants to put a scope on it. I can't imagine why anyone would want a scope on a rifle that shoots a puny little pistol cartridge, but so be it.

May 21, 2014, 08:17 PM	#4
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Never mind. I found the same mount (new and unbroken) for $10 at Amazon and a couple other places. Shoulda gone there first.

May 21, 2014, 09:47 PM	#6
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Oh, yes, I knew that line about the puny little pistol cartridge would bring some folks out of the bushes. Cretin, am I? You took the bait, hook line and sinker. I'm just fixing this rifle for a friend. I quite honestly could not give a hoot about the rifle or the cartridge. Yes, I know it's a former military weapon, but you do know that it really is a pistol cartridge don't you? As for the $10, I'm quite sure that my friend will want to go cheap. He said he was offered $1200 for the rifle, but wouldn't sell. I'm sure it has value to a collector, but has no value to me (unless I got it for $500 and could now sell it for $1200).

May 21, 2014, 10:44 PM	#7
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Does seem like a travesty to put a scope on a M1 Carbine.

May 22, 2014, 02:57 AM	#9
fiream29 Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: BFE S. Texas Posts: 54	I doubt if the OP really cares whether it was designed as a pistol, rifle, or dwarf bazooka cartridge. He just asked a simple question that required a simple answer. OP, that cheap scope mount will probably work just fine. I've had one on a carbine for 20+ years with the same cheap Thompson-Center scope. The one thing you ought to check once assembled is whether the slide can contact the bottom of the mount on the right side. If it can make contact by pulling the slide all the way back you need to look at it closely after firing. If there's a mark where the slide impacted you'll need a new recoil spring and you might still have to relieve the mount a little even then. That could be what caused the original mount to break. Good Luck, fiream

May 22, 2014, 07:55 AM	#10
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Finally, some useful information. Thanks fiream29. As for whether or not it's a pistol cartridge or rifle cartridge, it was developed for that particular rifle, so you can make the case that it's a rifle cartridge. However, it is a straight walled case, and headspaces on the mouth.

May 22, 2014, 11:02 AM	#12
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I'm doing this for free and I'm going to keep this as simple as I can. He wants a scope on it, and he doesn't have the iron sights. I just put a scope and mounts on his AR-22LR and the mount is so low that you have to screw your face into that hard plastic stock to see out of the scope. I suggested taller mounts. I know he heard me. All he wants is to shoot the rifle and not spend money (which is why he asks me to do stuff for free).

May 25, 2014, 06:25 PM	#14
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Wow! That's really something.

May 30, 2014, 05:30 PM	#15
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Just an update. Rather than buy a new mount, I decided to go with the old one and buy a fine threaded bolt of the right size and a nut that I could shape to fit the dovetail. Took me a while, but I finally got it done. Had some extra weaver type rings and an extra 4 power scope (BSA, but not too bad). Everything is on and tight and appears solid. Will shoot it tomorrow. Hoping for the best. I have to admit that the rifle looks pretty good with the scope on it. Much better looking than I would have guessed. I might even have to take it into the woods. I filled feeders and put fresh batteries in the game cameras today. Lots of small pig tracks at one of the feeders.

June 1, 2014, 12:05 PM	#20
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Wife went shopping, so I quit doing honey-do's and sighted in the 30 Carbine. Didn't take long. The little thing shoots great. Trigger pull sure isn't Timney-level, but that's no biggie. I put the POI dead on at 50 yards. Too bad that tiny little rifle doesn't come in 221 Fireball or 223. Not that I need another rifle...

June 1, 2014, 01:24 PM	#21
coldbeer Junior member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Woodhaven MI Posts: 477	Off the top of my head I can't think of a single 30 caliber pistol round that comes within 300fps of the 30 carbine round even out of a rifle. The 30 Mauser/ tokarev certainly doesn't, not with 110 gr bullets anyway and the that round is not considered underpowered.

June 1, 2014, 07:01 PM	#22
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	There was a time when a M1 Carbine was no really big deal. And to be honest, there was a USGI variant of the M1 carbine that used a scope mount for an infrared scope- the T3- so its not like you're punching the spirit of US History in the vegetables by the mere fact there's a scope mount on an M1 Carbine. I have a ten dollar Redfield jr. scope mount on my 1943 Remington M1903A4gery. It's the correct mount. And I can't see why that little chunk of steel would cost more than ten bucks. I like the .30 carbine round. I wish it were cheaper.