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Old October 11, 2017, 02:50 PM   #26
RC20
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Just a correction. The 12FV is $318 with the rebate.

If you have other Cabella discounts those apply, but string up with the $100 rebate its $318. Heck of a deal. If I need another one,,,,,,,,,,
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Old October 11, 2017, 02:52 PM   #27
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RC20. Thanks for the ideas, I really like that savage 10t.
The night force scopes are awesome, but Ill have to save up, perfectly doable.
Well we got you a start (grin)

Your signature reminds me of the time my wife and I were on a combined hunting and camping trip.

I had a Caribou in the scope and was trying to decide if I wanted that one, the one behind it or if there were others (I never got a nice rack, sigh)

My wife who is quite practical is behind me saying, "Just shoot the damned thing"

Ok, she was right, both the same size, no more around. Great eating.
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Old October 11, 2017, 08:14 PM   #28
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I just got one of the Savage 12FV deals from Cabelas a few weeks ago in 6.5 Creedmoor. I put my cheap Nikon 3-9 Prostaff on it just to give it a try. Got out to the range at the base in Quantico on the 300 yd range using Hornady 123 gr factory ammo. Sighted it at 300 yds shooting clay pigeons, once I got it sighted could easily hit them most shots. Then brought it back to 100 yds, windage wise it was spot on and about 4 1/2" high and my first 3 rounds were at 1/2" no problem. This is only the second bolt action center fire rifle I've ever owned, the last one being in 1972. To say I'm happy and impressed with this rifle is an understatement. Can't wait to see how it shoots when I get some good glass, a decent rest, and work up my handloads.
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Old October 11, 2017, 08:23 PM   #29
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His rifle absolutely shoots better than mine. I would say, significantly better. But, he spent $3300 more to get it.
Precision CNC's and million dollar hammer forging machines have no doubt lessened the "accuracy gap" between factory rifles and customs/high-end factory. But, it's still there and will always be-but I expect it will continue to tighten a bit.

While there's very little consensus about most anything when it comes to precision shooting, I've yet to meet anyone that won't agree the barrel is #1- and by a large margin. If you're shooting 1,000 yards, 1/4 minute of accuracy can mean a hit, or a miss. Given all the other variables, those that are serious about the sport (and have the financial means) happily spend the coin to get that extra accuracy. In the overall scheme, rebarreling is looked at like tires on a car- hot loads and barrel burners can rule for some, again for that "edge".

$3,300 is serious coin for most. For some, it's the tip of an iceberg of reloading equipment, range supplies from LabRadar to $1000 front rests. Go to your local 1,000 yard range on a competition day- some amazing equipment to see, and most importantly- almost to a person shooters are very friendly and happy to help and share their knowledgeable.

All of us need to encourage and grow the shooting sports. With firearms constantly under assault from the Left, we need to normalize the sport in the eyes of those that don't understand it. If you've never taken a Liberal shooting and heard them say " Wow! I never knew it could be this much FUN"...
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Old October 12, 2017, 02:34 PM   #30
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Hate to bust a bubble, I am a progressive at the very least and have been shooting for 58 years or so (yes we started young)

I think the ardent 2nd amendments group (maybe 10% of the US) thinks we hate guns, we don't.

My liberal uncle and a friend who has now passed, both WWII vets, combat, not rear support. Ditto another acquaintance from the 82nd.

I too took a fellow progressive shooting and she liked it. She also saw the abysmal and dangerous gun handling that was going on and the question as asked and continues to be, they are allowed?

I know some hardened 2nd amendementers that are questioning the right vs a privilege.

Unfortunately what we have is a document that while it has by en large stood the test of time, has flaws that do not account for changing times.

There were no semi automatic let alone full auto guns when it was written. People who had guns had to know how to load, shoot and maintain them. That's not close to true now.

Slavery was a given and was accommodated (not happily but it was)

Women were not allowed to vote.

The electoral college was a way to control the "masses" as was the Senate (and its funny, Senators are now elected not appointed, the masses got a win despite loosing the vote by 3 millions, so that is now unbalanced the original checks and balances intended.

The two vestiges left in the constitution (my opinion) that should have been reconsidered are the 2nd and the Electoral Collage.

You could not wreck mayhem with a horse and carriage but you can a car, that is a licensed privilege (severely abused but only because the powers that be will not enact legislation to ensure they can't get back into and drive a car without a license.)

The majority of gun owners believe there should be restrictions.

What those are we can discuss (or should be able to). Bump stocks has come up and magazine size another.

But to ignore it or insist that we need more armed people when we have them running around in the streets unhindered already is pure fantasy. Its got go be very up close and specific before I would consider pulling a gun out. More guns means what I have seen at the range, more clowns shooting them, who are at the best unsafe, worst outright dangerous to the rest of us (at or off the range)

Those who have them, affects them not at all.

Much ahs been made about Supreme court rulings, Dred
Scott was a ruling that was found in the long flow of history to have been horribly wrong.
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Old October 12, 2017, 03:45 PM   #31
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Well. RC20, you have some interesting viewpoints that are not un-worthy of discussing, perhaps in another thread somewhere.... But, lest we get too far off topic, I think we should stick to the relative merits of the various bolt-action rifles, so that Chainsaw, and others can make an informed-choice.
There are a lot of rifles that would fit the purpose intended by the OP. For a production bolt-gun, the model 70 Winchester, stocked in Walnut, gives me everything I want in such a rifle. There are others that will also do the same job, so there is an individual-preference factor involved here. Scopes were also mentioned to a lesser degree, so I will say that I like the Leupold 3-9x40. Target shooting is fine, and I do it whenever I can. But, for me, I'm mainly interested in it as an exercise for a practical woods/hunting firearm.
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Old October 12, 2017, 11:42 PM   #32
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I would recommend the Savage 10VT. It's a Dicks Sporting goods exclusive. Of course they own Field and Stream. So you can pick up at either place.
And they are not on back order. At least not in central PA.

If you don't like the plastic stock on the Tikka T3, then i would recommend their Hunter line.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:46 AM   #33
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Keeping in mind the OP is looking for a long range target gun.

The Dicks gun would be in that same area of what he wants.

Any gun that does not have a heavy barrel would not be.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:47 AM   #34
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Well. RC20, you have some interesting viewpoints that are not un-worthy of discussing, perhaps in another thread somewhere....
Agreed, I also don't like to see stereotypes go unchallenged.
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Old October 13, 2017, 10:56 AM   #35
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6mm Creedmore. Is that on the 6.5 CM case? If it is, what's the difference between it and the 243? I've only seen the 243 mentioned once, the Creedmore a number of time's. I'd lots rather find case's to make 243's out of.

Bottom line on the rifle itself is your just gonna have to crap shoot it. Every rifle has it's admire's and they are sure they got the best shooting one. But, maybe they did and maybe they didn't. The only thing they really know about the rifle it's self is how it looks and feels. Normally you can't shoot them at the gun counter.

If you like looking at it and it feel's good in your hand's and the price is right, get it! It may or may not shoot with the other similar rifle's but it will probably shoot better than you need! If you think that every Ruger American that come's off the line shoot's just as well as all the other's, your miss informed!
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Old October 13, 2017, 12:01 PM   #36
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I have been very satisfied with my Savage Axis.

Of course if you like real wood, then Savage has several models with traditional stocks,
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Old October 13, 2017, 12:02 PM   #37
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Thanks for grabbing the wheel Pathfinder, I like a healthy discussion on almost all things, but yeah, sometimes topics stray to easily.

Getting pretty excited to get this going. Just gotta get an AR sold, anyone want to buy a nice varmit AR??
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Old October 13, 2017, 12:04 PM   #38
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"...soft-point expanding hunting bullets..." Those don't guarantee much excitement either. They do in a varmint cartridge like a .223 though. It was 48 ounce cans of tomato juice at about 10 yards. .30-06 SP's weren't as, um, satisfying as the .223.
A Savage Package rifle in .223 will do it.
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Old October 13, 2017, 01:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Your signature reminds me of the time my wife and I were on a combined hunting and camping trip.
Nice story, RC20.

I find it kind of interesting that my wife tends to be cool and dispassionate about things that I get emotional about while I can be objective about the things she gets emotional about.
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Old October 13, 2017, 01:40 PM   #40
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I will also suggest avoiding the magnum calibers as magazine capacity is reduced, etc. My Winchester is a 5+1 rifle in 270 Win. In my observations, water-filled milk-jugs explode quite violently when hit by ordinary soft-point ammo from 30-'06, 270 Winchester, and even 30-30. But when hit with 7.62 Nato ammo, they just sit there leaking. The exploded jugs tend to remain in large pieces if not completely whole, making for an easy site clean-up, as it is the water that explodes without shattering the plastic to bits.
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Old October 13, 2017, 02:21 PM   #41
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RC20,

It is severe logical fallacy to analyze an historical event outside of the era in which it occurred. It is fallacy to analyze an 18th century event with 21st century eyes.

Suffice it to write that most of your post is logical fallacy.

Madison wrote the Second Amendment to assure Americans would be able to retake their country should a tyrant seize it. Hence, type of 18th century firearm is a red herring. That Americans possess firearms to retake their government from a tyrant is controlling.

Our constitution gave slavery nothing. Our Founding Fathers knew slavery was a dying institution...or it would kill the country they've created. Hence, the noun slavery appears in none of our founding documents.

There is no doubt that you've made this up: "The majority of gun owners believe there should be restrictions."

Majority of Americans know that no one has been able to prove efficacy of a single gun control law. Gun control laws don't work. Criminals do not obey laws.

Forgive me if I'm wrong: the total fallacy of your posts indicates that your an agent working for gun control. Spurious gobbledygook that attempts to undermine integrity of US Constitutional is an indication of an ulterior motive.
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Old October 13, 2017, 02:41 PM   #42
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I was hoping we could avoid this kind of derailment of the topic.....
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Old October 13, 2017, 03:01 PM   #43
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Getting back on topic, here is a quote from Chainsaw's post #1 that started this thread:
Quote:
We both were able to ring that steel with boring regularity
Now I ask, Chainsaw, were you shooting from a bench? If not, then what position? I mention this because 455 yards is pretty far away. Maybe it's time to try some more challenging positions. If you are a hunter, get away from the bench and do most of your shooting from positions that you would likely encounter in the terrain you hunt. I'm a pretty good off-hand shot, but at that range, I will sit on the ground for the shot.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:29 PM   #44
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Too many good options out there. My fav bolt guns are CZ 500 series (527, 550) and Winchester Model 70.

But, the Howa and Weatherby suggestions are good too, if you want something synthetic.
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Old October 14, 2017, 06:57 PM   #45
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Don fisher, 6mm creedmore is pert near a 243, the shoulder angle is steepened and pushed back slightly, and the case squared up just a touch, think almost 243 AI. One of the big advantages is a longer neck. The more I read the more Im thinkimg 6.5CM is what I'm after. Good questiom though, 243 is no slouch.


Patherfinder. These shot were taken laying in a big batch of baby head boulders, feet higher than our head, grass waving in out faces (that was fun when the brake on my AR would shread the grass with each shot) off a bag, sun was going down and in our eyes, wind was gusting to 25mph and the wind was COOOLD. Yes seriously. It was alot of fun, if my wife and I were more of meat eaters it could have got me hooked on elk hunting. Oh, and the gong I had painted yellow was starting to blend in with the yellow grass around as the light faded.

As you say, when we go out and do it again maybe Ill try a good sitting position to add a touch of challenge.
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Old October 14, 2017, 09:48 PM   #46
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Chainsaw....a little advice....

243 Win, 6.5 Creedmor or 308 Win offer the best road to easy accuracy.

You want a fairly heavy rifle with a stock matched to your type of shooting. There are several Savage 10 & 12 models that do this well.

You want good aftermarket support.....meaning, can you buy an upgrade trigger or barrel easily? Savage yep.

You want a good steel scope mount or maybe aluminum....TPS, Ken Ferrel, EGW, etc

You want a good scope. I would look at Vortex, Burris and Leupold at around $1000. Nightforce, US Optics and Vortex Razor above that at $2000-$2500. $500-$1000 is a world of heavy compromises....only you can decide what compromises are ok. At the end of the day, you can spend $200-$3000 and hit your target in most lighting. At $1000, I really like the XTR II.

You want a muzzle brake or can at some point.
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Old Today, 07:51 AM   #47
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Start planning to acquire some reloading equipment...
Consistent, and accurate ammo is critical at longer ranges; as is a lot of practice.

You'll quickly find that ringing a gong at 600 yards with boring regularity (next time use an 8" instead to make it a bit more challenging) isn't difficult on a calm day with an accurate rifle. It's the last 400 yards where the bullet drops dramatically and is much more susceptible to wind that proves very challenging some days.

The Hornady ammo is capable- but at more than double the cost than for roll your own you end up shooting less- or paying a lot more.
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